IMC for AKs and SKSs?

[FiremanBob]

I've been studying sight adjustment on these rifles. Since they don't have clicks, has anyone calculated how many MOAs are in one turn of the front sight tool for elevation, and in one turn (or quarter-turn since the threads are coarser) of the screw-press type windage tool?

I'd test it myself, but don't have one of these rifles.

Thanks.

[jmdavis]

I thought that it was in the Instructors Manual. But it doesn't seem to be. My recollection for front sight is 12MOA per turn for AK and 8 MOA per turn for SKS. I believe that this was basically correct for both windage and elevation and obviously assumes that you are using a vise type tool to move the windage.

Here are my notes:

SKS
Front Sight Elevation: 8 MOA per turn
Front Sight Windage: Approx 1 MOA per .006" (Drift tool is approx .035" per turn)
Rear Sight Elevation: Approx 3 MOA per detent out to 300m
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So for the SKS it is 8 of elevation per turn and ~6 MOA of windage per turn. AK is 12 MOA of elevation. You will need to check windage.

So if you are adjusting an SKS and need to move the windage 2 MOA left you would then move the front sight 1/3 turn to the right.

Remember to Zero with the rear sight either on 2 or with it all the way back on the BSZ notch (which is around 3).



Mike

[Oz]

You're right, it's there.  See p.78 of the current version of the manual.  (Well, the page numbered 78 at the bottom, it is page 86 of the PDF!)

[FiremanBob]

Thanks, guys. Don't know how I missed it before. In version 7.0 of the Instructor Manual of 4/19/13, numbered page 80, page 88 of the pdf, is a table for various rifles. I'm going to print and laminate it to keep in my clipboard.

[PHenry]

FB,
Whenever in doubt, if u have range access - easy to test any rifle / sight / scope combo. Get a tight group. Move site a significant amount and record change in POI. Tech site manual says 5/8 moa per click right? Sure. Well more than that on any rifle I have tested. Even best recorded (by someone else) info is rarely as good as real time in front of your eyes info. Also tends to stick better.

I did something last Sunday that I have never done b4 - I shot a 22LR to 200yards. Wasn't perfectly certain scope would allow enough elevation. It did. To go from a 25M zero to 200 yards required 22.75 MOA up (with HV ammo). Nothing like the real thing. 

[jmdavis]

PHenry's advice is good for scopes and iron sights.

Get your group and then adjust (for example) 20 clicks right, followed by 20 clicks down, followed by 20 clicks left and ending with 20 clicks up. You should be back to the beginning group if your adjustments are regular and repeatable. It's called "shooting a box."

If they are not regular, that's ok too. In general sight adjustments will be most standard in the center of the adjustment area. In other words, clicks on the low and high ends will have a high chance of moving different amounts than in the center. In such a case an important part of knowing your rifle is learning this. You will then know that at certain ranges your 1 minute click may be 1.5 minutes or 3/4 minute. Learn it. Test it. Shoot it.

Remember too that light may play a role. An old rule is "Lights up, Sights Up." This works for many people but some people will find little or no point if impact change in bright light situations. Personally I find 1/2 to 3/4 of a minute if variation depending on the light.


Mike

[Johnnyappleseed]

Thank you OP for posing the question, which remindes me how the US values the Rifleman.


Using PHs example of shooting 200 yards with 22lr .
I did I get the holdover correct at 3 feet 9 inch ?

[PHenry]

JA,
So close - not worth discussing. I came up 88 clicks (was concerned if scope had it in it - it did), then added 3 after a sighter. Ended up shooting about 5.5 moa.
PH

[vanny37]

Remember to Zero with the rear sight either on 2 or with it all the way back on the BSZ notch (which is around 3).

What is the 'accepted' sighting in procedure for the SKS to get the rear sight close (1 at 100m, 2 at 200m, etc)?  At what distance is the zero for your comment above?  (I've always assumed 200m if on 2)

Thanks!

[PHenry]

vanny,
Set rear at 2 (200M) ans shoot a five shot group at 25M (25 yards will do). Adjust front sire for windage and elevation (requires tool(s). If using the original open notch iron sights - u should be good at 200M and now the rear sight will function as intended - bullet drop compensation.

JM,

Get your group and then adjust (for example) 20 clicks right, followed by 20 clicks down, followed by 20 clicks left and ending with 20 clicks up. You should be back to the beginning group if your adjustments are regular and repeatable. It's called "shooting a box."

That's a man knows well what he is about. 

[ItsanSKS]

Vanny, the best procedure to follow, with both an SKS and an AK, is to start @ 25m with the rear sight set on '2'.  Get it zeroed in, then move the slider to '3', and the target to 300m.   Fire a group to check zero- you may have to make some *minor* adjustments at the front sight, depending on the ammo you are using.  Continue moving the slider and the target distance, re-zeroing for each distance.   Once you've got the slider zeroed for 400m @ '4', or 500m @ '5', bring the slider back to '2' and shoot @ 25m.   Your group should still be within or touching the black square, though it may be a little high, or a little low.   

I prefer to have the Bullet Drop Compensator be zeroed for the furthest distance I can maintain a solid 4 MOA group, and accept that the price paid for this is a minute deviation of POI from POA at nearer distances.  I use this same technique when dealing with BDC-type scopes. 

PS: once you've zeroed the SKS/AK front sight at 500m, apply a little purple loctite- this type will seep into the threads, and keep the front sight from self-adjusting. 

[ItsanSKS]

PPS-

I have found that the windage adjustment for both the AK and SKS is a tough one to nail down, mainly because the front site does not like to drift in its hole.  Before zeroing an AK or an SKS, completely remove the front sight pin, and the cross-bar into which it screws.  Thoroughly clean both, and apply a little dry lubricant (such as graphite) to the cross bar.  This will enable you to make consistent windage adjustments.

(These rifles' front sights are pretty much glued into place from decades-old cosmoline, you'll have to clean that stuff out before getting consistent adjustments)

[slim]

I shot the box drill this weekend with my AK. (CAI AKMS w/124gr FMJ) 1 turn on the sight tool = 8 MOA for both windage and elevation.

My rear sight slider was slightly off though. I used the 200 setting through 300 yards, the 300 setting for 400 and the 400 setting for 500.

Temperature seems to really affect my AK. When it's cool, it holds a pretty consistent zero. I shot it back in March and the slider was accurate for proper distance. This weekend (August) it was about 45 degrees warmer and we shot a lot more rapidly. My zero moved up appx. 5 MOA.

[DEH]

I've had the same problem.  My solution was to heat it with a blow torch and soak it in PB Blaster.  One thing That helps is adjust the elevation before you adjust the windage.  If you adjust the windage too far either way, it will jam the elevation post and you will be unable to raise or lower the sights.