Author Topic: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!  (Read 2136 times)

Offline Fred

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Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« on: April 27, 2013, 05:59:59 AM »
    Some or most of you know that TEXAS played a big role in early Appleseed history, being one of the two "trial" locations when, in 2005, we took Appleseed onto the road to try out the concept.

    Which brought us to Mingus in October, 2005.

    Here's the long unavailable report of that event, published at the time in Shotgun News - comments in brackets are original to the article, unless preceded by the word "Fred" - it may be interesting to see what your fellow Texans thought of that first AS event, in TX:



     Quotes from shooters at the Texas AQT Rifleman Shoot (most are off the web):

     ...nothing quite lives up to the sight of a firing line of riflemen blasting away while the sweet smell of cordite fills the air. The 40-round rapid-fire drill was pure poetry. 800 rounds of ammo sent downrange in about two minutes. The sound, the smell, the clouds of dust from the berm, the smoke wafting off of 20 severely heated barrels...

     If that sight doesn't fill you with awe, nothing will.

     Inspiring? Yes. To Riflemen. (And this was on one of the smaller 20-man ranges; imagine what it was on the range with 40+ shooters!)

     The Texas AQT Rifleman Shoot is important as an example to set the pattern. The Johnny Appleseed pattern. Learn, then teach. It's a new experience for most, as they've never been on a firing line with 20 other people, everyone firing as rapidly and accurately as possible for two minutes. [Fred: Recall, this was back "in the centerfire days" - it was noisy!]

     Yes, it's noisy (which is why we say bring ear plugs AND ear muffs). Yes, it's distracting, the muzzle blast from the guy two feet to your right alternating with the guy two feet to your left (you just hope neither has a muzzle brake). Yes, there is hot brass raining on you from your neighbor's next-door Garand - or the HK91 30 feet to your left.

     But it's all part of the Appleseed experience. Of learning to shoot a rifle, like your forebears. Of immersing yourself in the tradition. Of becoming an American again. A tough defender of liberty.

     That's the Appleseed approach. To teach people to shoot, to make 'em understand they have to go out and pass the tradition on to others, for if we don't hang together we'll all hang separately.

     To make 'em Americans again, people to be feared by anyone who would threaten Liberty:

      ... the kid next to me...unloaded his M1A at the AQT target in less than two minutes, and every single [one] of the ten silhouettes was perforated. [Fred: Before the QD AQT, we fired the original Stage 4 AQT with 10 rounds on ten silhouettes.]

     40 rounds, and not one miss, and that was after some 8 hours of continuous fire drill. To say that I was impressed would be the biggest understatement of my life. Anybody finding himself on the wrong end of that fine young man's rifle is dead before the fight even begins.

     Say, don't you wish that could be said of every American? Especially - you?

     Someone else also commented:

     I feel for any force that comes against those who participate with RWVA clinics.

     Americans aren't supposed to be pushovers. Sure, we're stupid, lazy, and self-centered. It usually takes a Pearl Harbor to wake us up and get us mad. But once we wake up, we are implacable as a foe.

     And, as riflemen, to the extent we are, we are unbeatable:

     In the final fast AQT (40 rds in 2 minutes) the guy next to me and I were putting holes in the same paper (mostly me shooting his target). In 2.5 minutes (or less) we deposited 80 rounds downrange. We killed at least 38 bad guys and wounded another 19-25, scaring the living dogpoop out of the remainder. Given that the estimated international NIPOOMA (number I'm pulling out of my a$$) of rounds expended per kill in recent warfare is something like 100,000, between the two of us we did something like 475,000% better than the average.

     Another:

     Working with the targets and tactics we were exposed to this weekend, I'd say that even a small group is a formidable force... Couple such excellence in marksmanship with tough as nails men who know not the meaning of 'quit', and you have a force to make any army shiver with terrible fear.

     With Johnny Appleseed, we want to scratch that sleeping American, wake him up, and get him started on a trip whose destination is to be where he ought to be. Or as one person listed, under 'lessons learned':

     I CAN do my part with my rifle. I CAN still learn.

     Hey! Good lesson, good attitude, to take away from an Appleseed event. And here's the flip side of the issue:

    [T]he majority of us had damn well better be able to shoot well, cause we're not gonna be able to run very far.

    Appleseed is good for the kids, too:

     ...[my] boy has talked nonstop about everyone he met this past weekend and how much he enjoyed both days! He certainly appreciated the techniques learned and I appreciated how well-structured each event was.

And another shooter:

     21 Lessons learned:

     1. Fred is a harsh teacher, but his sometimes insulting manner makes the stuff you need to learn stick better.
[Gosh, and everyone says Fred was on good behavior, too...]

     2. Fred likes it when you talk back with authority (or was that cockiness). [Don't know that 'cocky' is a word you'd use for Fred - a better one would be 'scared' - for the future of the country...]

     14. My 3rd world country rifle with it's shot-out barrel still drops bad guys with impressive regularity. [That's rack-grade in action, son.]

     16. Targets talk to you. They are usually saying "more elevation, dummy". [Sometimes they say other things, but whatever they say, you listen...]

    17. Slings are required for accurate shooting from probable combat positions. I'm glad I learned how to do it. [I'm glad you did, too!]

     18. 25 dollars goes a long way at an RWVA clinic. [Sure does, big time!]

And this note, faxed in to Fred:

     Dear Fred: First a big THANK YOU to everyone involved in last weekend's Great Texas Shootout! For a beginner like me, who had never shot even 100 yards with open sights, to find himself firing 300 and then 400 yards with open sights was a very empowering experience. [See, 25m training DOES work, just like Fred tells you it does...]... I am already looking forward to next year's Shootout! JK, TX

     You know, if it weren't for these participants, there would be no Appleseed project. Give full credit to them, with the idea that participation by them is what keeps the program alive. If we put on a shoot, and no one comes, we as humans become discouraged, and discouraged people give up.

     Like Citizens of America, a fine outfit a few years back that specialized in getting gun-rights ads on the air waves, good hard-hitting ones they were, too. We printed a number of 'em here [in Shotgun News] to help get the word out about the COA program.

     Even said people should be fighting to get in line and donate.

     But the cheapskate mentality won out, contributions dropped off, discouraging the organizers, and they folded the program.

     YOU, me, and our country, we were all the big losers.

     But maybe you can understand - someone willing to do all the work, all you had to do was part with some pocket change. You don't show your appreciation, you ignore them, and they go away. It was a real shame.

     So, if you want to save America, better get ready to get off the duff in '06, and come to a shoot.

     'Cause you don't want any program to save your country to be unsuccessful...

     Back to the shoot.

     The farthest that I've ever driven to shoot has been about three hours, and that was too far. For this one, I had over a six hour drive and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

     He [another time, another place, another clinic] was kind of disorganized and just played everything by ear. In contrast, I'd say that your set-up was at the opposite end of the scale. You knew what you were going to do, had folks there to do it and only had to adjust relative to your final numbers on the line. Right fine way to go, even though it takes a lot of planning and a little bit of luck.

     Afteraction critiques lead to improvements for next time - each Appleseed shoot is slightly different as we continually refine until all the kinks are out and learning is maximized.

     For example, sighting-in is so important and involves such a multitude of skills that we'll devote more time Saturday to it. It won't be boring - we'll start, as we always will, with the classification AQT [Fred: The Redcoat target was still in the future], then on to fundamentals of the prone position, use of the sling, firing the shot, NPOA, followed up by Ball & Dummy, various drills, and trajectory, battlesight zero (big improvements here, too, with new targets to make things clear) and marking your sights for fast return to zero. And finish up with a regular AQT, then a rapid AQT, which everyone loves...
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

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     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...

Offline jmdavis

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2013, 01:03:17 PM »
I read this in Shotgun News when it came out. It would be almost 3 more years before my first Appleseed, I still regret that wait.
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Offline Sir Not Appearing In This Film

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2013, 03:17:26 PM »
Thanks for posting that. I have kept my SGN that has that article.

Still have one of the slings I bought from "Fred" that Sunday - Kilo11 - that does duty on my handpicked CMP M1.


Psst - Mingus was October 2006, not 2005.  ;)

Couple of videos from that first Texas Appleseed. Several future instructors were captured on film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as0TrRRcjIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qstKxzbyhM
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Offline Fred

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2013, 04:00:07 PM »

Psst - Mingus was October 2006, not 2005.  ;)


   Actually, we were at Mingus twice, once in 2005 and again in 2006. The report above is for the 2005 event - at least, it was posted in 2005... ::) :)

   It was a great location - multiple ranges from 25m out to 1000 yards - and only about an hour west of DFW area - but being a commercial range, we had to rent it for the weekend - it was either $1000 for the weekend, or $1000/day - and we didn't have enough people to show up to break even...

    Maybe we should think of cranking this location back up, once we ascertain or believe we can get enough people there.
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...

Offline Jerry Hall

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2013, 05:34:42 PM »
Encouraged!  :---  :bow:  ^:)^  :~
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Offline scuzzy

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2013, 09:30:32 PM »
   [Fred: Recall, this was back "in the centerfire days" - it was noisy!]

     Yes, it's noisy (which is why we say bring ear plugs AND ear muffs). Yes, it's distracting, the muzzle blast from the guy two feet to your right alternating with the guy two feet to your left (you just hope neither has a muzzle brake). Yes, there is hot brass raining on you from your neighbor's next-door Garand - or the HK91 30 feet to your left.

 

Man - I just love the noise and smoke. Pre-Appleseed I remember when me and 5 other friends would get together once a month and pop 1,000 rounds each on a Saturday. It was tactical rapid fire, 40 meters, timed, and a lot of fun. Heck, $90 to 110 a case for 223 or 7.62x39 wolf. This was only about 8 years ago. Once we chopped down a big cedar tree within 30 seconds, we were all loaded for bear and at the GO call we let 'er rip.

That was one Happy Valley.

Anyhow thanks for the story - I'd not heard the full account of the first Mingus shoot. I know SNAITF and Scout have talked a bit about it before.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 09:47:15 PM by scuzzy »
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Offline didactic

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2013, 09:47:33 PM »
I sort of know Bill Davison, the transplanted lime-juicer that owns the place (TacPro Shooting Center, IIRC).  He's one of the good guys, former Special Boat Service type.   :bow: :bow:

So he probably won't cheer the stories of the Redcoats being whipped, but he does realize that America is the last, best hope for saving meaningful self-government on this planet.  At least that was his opinion last time we talked.

After the dust settles from the NRA convention, I'll "ring him up" and see what he has to say.

 :~
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Offline Sir Not Appearing In This Film

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2013, 06:03:01 PM »

Psst - Mingus was October 2006, not 2005.  ;)


   Actually, we were at Mingus twice, once in 2005 and again in 2006. The report above is for the 2005 event - at least, it was posted in 2005... ::) :)

   It was a great location - multiple ranges from 25m out to 1000 yards - and only about an hour west of DFW area - but being a commercial range, we had to rent it for the weekend - it was either $1000 for the weekend, or $1000/day - and we didn't have enough people to show up to break even...

    Maybe we should think of cranking this location back up, once we ascertain or believe we can get enough people there.

Wow. I used to read most every SGN via subscription. I somehow missed the Texas 2005 event. I'd always thought the 90 some-odd shooters in Mingus October 2006 were the first Texas soil Appleseed participants.

I'd planned to drive to Ramseur in that time period but when the Mingus Oct. 2006 event was posted I changed my plans.

Soon after Appleseed changed my plans.  :cool2:
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Offline scuzzy

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2016, 02:40:05 PM »
Bump.
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Offline henschman

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2016, 03:53:43 PM »
Longshot told me about this event back in '09 or so at the event where he gave me my red hat.  I sure wish I had known about the program way back then... heady days for sure!
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Offline Weezer

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2016, 04:55:15 PM »
Texas is coming back, baby!   Ft. Worth is starting up again this fall, Scuzzy's events in Midland are selling out, Sir Not Appearing is a big hit with the ladies (they love doing Ladyseeds with him.  Must be the beard.) and Waco is on fire right now.   (Wait, not literally.)

We'll live up to our history, Fred.    Promise.    O0

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Offline scuzzy

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2016, 05:16:48 PM »
Texas is coming back, baby!   

And Jerry Hall has El Paso back online. With a sold out shoot next weekend.

Just talked to Jerry today. We BS'd about Harleys, guns, and life in general. Hope to see him someday in person. Then talked to Dr John too. Jeez - some of the best people you'll ever have the honor to shoot the breeze with.

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Offline Jerry Hall

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2016, 10:26:36 PM »
Howdy All,

Actually Scuzzy and I were talkin, cause, I would like to see some of the hierarchical historians, Whom know the story, put together; "The History of the RWVA and Project Appleseed". As in, The RWVA was founded to help bring about necessary improvements to the "RWVA" Home Range in Ramseur, NC. And out of this experience an offspring was created..."Project Appleseed".

I know I've either read or heard the story(actually partially both), I just couldn't find it to refresh my memory. Partly for the upcoming event in El Paso, as there is a TV reporter wanting to do a piece on this upcoming event, and I would like to have the names and places right.

that's my story and I'm stickin to it!

Happy Trails,

Jerry
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Offline Weezer

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2016, 12:15:55 AM »
Jerry!   I am so sorry!   Didn't mean to leave out your SOLD OUT event!   Awesome job.   ^:)^

We should start a friendly competition between the Shoot Bosses - who can sell out the fastest, who can sell out the most, who's the most handsome.... **)
"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy." -- John Adams

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Offline Sir Not Appearing In This Film

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2016, 10:00:32 AM »
I was rereading this thread yesterday and searched online for a little more Appleseed foundational history -  found a wikipedia Appleseed page. The Appleseed Project history expressed there matches my memory of events.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Appleseed

Some youtube vids taken at the Mingus, TX October 28, 2006 event - almost 10 years ago.

We had three separate lines for 90 some odd shooters (I say "we" - I was just a first time AS shooter). Future SB Johnnyappleseed had driven from CA to be there as were several other shooters that became Red Hats and Shoot Bosses.

It could be that I am in the videos. It could be. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARNdM1NLzvk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as0TrRRcjIo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qstKxzbyhM


While looking for the vids above I found this old footage from Midland, TX April 2009. It could be that despite my best efforts I made it onto film that day. It could be. The reporter came back of his own accord on the Sunday of the shoot and shot all day. Reading the reporter's bio is interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYwhN2Uw8e4
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 10:57:17 AM by Sir Not Appearing In This Film »
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Offline Johnnyappleseed

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2016, 01:28:11 AM »
This sure brings back some fond memorys !
SNAITF you got my situation nearly correct. I visited Fred in NC and he told me about the Mingus shoot. When I mentioned I needed to get back to California he remarked," Its right on the way"! ;D

Later we did a shoot together at Ft Bliss gun club. Keep up the good work My Friend! O0
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Offline TaosGlock

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Re: Texans - a bit 'o Appleseed history!
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2016, 11:59:46 AM »
I remember those Ft. Bliss, TX shoots.  Just 40 minutes from Old Mesilla, NM where BlueFeather and I were living.

Ft. Bliss is just a few minutes from the lovely city of Juarez, Mexico. ::) We made it over for most of those shoots.

That is where BlueFeather and I first took the orange hat from Scout,
 
Later, that month, Scout came to Las Cruces for an IBC to get us started on the right foot. 

Later again, at a Ft. Bliss shoot, BlueFeather and I got our Red hat from Fred.
Stayed up all night at Wendy's doing test questions with Fred. ;)

Fred got a sombrero. **)

Great crew great times!




« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 02:07:57 PM by TaosGlock »
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