Author Topic: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage  (Read 2249 times)

Offline The Wolfhound

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A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« on: March 11, 2013, 09:55:56 PM »
Here is my plan: I can easily check my local Walmart for .22LR ammo, daily (it is on my commute).  I can post any amounts and cost and have it available to registered shooters (1 bulk pack or brick) to cover a shooter or replace their ammo used at the shoot.  The goal is to have enough ammo to allow anyone unprepared for this shortage to be able to participate.  I  have encouraged the Virginia Corp to assist, check their suppliers.  More eyes in the field mean a better chance of scoring ammo.  If you snag some, post in this thread listing the amount and cost and which shoot you will be attending.  If you need ammo for a shoot, also post in this thread or PM 'The Wolfhound" or contact AppleseedVirginia@gmail.com so we can try to match you with ammo.  This will be posted on our Facebook page as well.  We are blessed in Virginia that there is no problem with transfering ammo so lets keep shooters on the line by finding ammo.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 08:33:41 AM by The Wolfhound »

Offline BeSwift

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2013, 09:15:39 AM »
Good idea... I've been asking the students and watching closely for signs that the ammo shortage is affecting the classes, but haven't seen any yet. I've heard others worrying about "others" but no one actually saying that it's affected them personally. I always bring a brick or two of ammo to a shoot, in case someone has functioning problems with their ammo/rifle combination.. I'm sitting on fair reserve so the Spring shoots will be the test... I'll be watching to see how this works out for you...   BeSwift
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Offline TOMINCT

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2013, 02:23:33 PM »
 I've been hitting the marts as often as possible, zero for bulk 22 ammo, at least since the New Year. One LGS had some but sold out in a few days and hasn't had any since.

 This is in CT, I'm sure it varies elsewhere as most shortages do. I've been telling folks to bear down on purchasing ammo, not to hoard but to have enough. At this point it's more important than getting a loaner rifle.
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Offline boadicea

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 02:30:32 PM »
Try gunbot.net - it's a new site that tracks ammo availability.

Offline D.O.M.

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2013, 02:35:38 PM »
I've been doing the same, though, mostly on the internet. I'm generally not fast enough to get it before it sells out (so far, but I'm persistant!) I would plan on just buying it, and letting it go to subsidize an attendee at an event.
I see the CMP is out, but I wonder if Appleseed could "cut a deal" w/ an ammo supplier? As a whole, I'm sure that our program is one of if not the largest consumer of .22 in the world. Upwards of 3.5 million rounds a year is conservative, i think...
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Offline 4Posterity

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2013, 07:52:37 PM »
Well, I for one have certainly heard from prospective attendees as well as registered students regarding their inability to obtain 22 ammunition, and the simple reality that, without ammunition, they will be unable to attend.  My regional coordinator tells me he is also hearing from prospective students regarding this issue.

Our local Walmart store people have told me that they will not be receiving or shelving any ammunition in the foreseeable future.  The local small business ammo retailers tell me that they have been told not to expect any deliveries of ammo for the remainder of the year, if not longer. This is not second-hand/third-hand info, nor internet gossip, it what I have personally been told.  This issue is now being covered by the National News media as well.

There is much bantering about on the interweb regarding whether or not Walmart and other retailers are actually out of supply, whether they are gaming the supply-and-demand system, or whether some shadowy entity is either blocking distribution or buying up all the available ammunition to keep it out of the hands of the public.  To me, all of that is irrelevant, the simple truth for the time being is that prospective students cannot go out to any store, order via phone/internet, or otherwise purchase ammunition, which means they will not be attending events.

Unlike BeSwift and others, I am not sitting on a sizable cache of 22 ammo, and simply do not have enough to supply what is needed for an event, let alone all the events scheduled through the remainder of the year.  If I were to find some magic source of ammo, I am not in a financial position to give away brick after brick of ammo, and the complications of re-selling ammo to students as a representative of the RWVA is staggering.  The sales tax issue is only the beginning. 

At the events locally, the majority of the first-time attendees have come out to learn to shoot.  The shooting and marksmanship is the hook to get students out to be exposed to the heritage and history.  This is the simple genius of Fred's project.  Are we overwhelmed with demand for Library-seeds?  Not that I can see.  At least not from here anyway.

Today this ammo issue is troublesome.  Next month it stands to be problematic.  In six months it may be overwhelming.  Or it may be a non-issue if availability of ammo returns.  Whatever the case, I think this issue deserves more than informal, uncoordinated regional attention by a program that is dependent on ammunition to function.

That's all I have to say about that (for now)

Mark

PS:  In previewing my post I think I need to add emphatically:  Nothing I am writing is meant in any way to marginalize or criticize those who are attempting to find local solutions.  Kudos to you for trying.  I just think this is a bigger issue than we can solve by all trying to be at Walmart at 9 every evening to stand-by while the clerks open the daily delivery boxes.

M

Offline Tncolonel

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2013, 08:47:06 PM »
Folks,
        Thanks to everyone for working this ammunition issue in their own way.  In Southern Middle Tennessee our Wal-Mart's have been getting ammo at least once a week.  Mixed calibers usually 10,000 - 15,000 rounds a week at our local store!  Wal-Mart will not hold any -  it is first come first served  --  and it usually sells out within 2-3 hours.  I have 7-8 of the folks signed up for our Patriot Day event still searching for ammunition. I was at one local fundraiser where a case of 5,000 of Eley Sport .22 rounds auctioned off for $650.oo so the issue is potentially serious. Even our local Revolutionary War Living History group that will be at our Patriot's Day Appleseed is having trouble getting black powder for their muskets and cannon.
        You might try local CMP rifle clubs; some may have some .22 on hand that they would make available to Appleseed for a donation.  Our Middle Tennessee Boy Scout Council needs 100,000 rounds for their rifle merit badge summer camp program.  At my suggestion they are going to go to Wal-Mart and ask for a donation of ammunition instead of money this year.  The Scouts probably have a better chance with Wal-Mart in general than we do, but if anyone knows a local Wal-Mart store manager (or better still has one who has been to an Appleseed) you might ask them for a donation to Appleseed and specify that if approved you would like that to be ammunition vs. money.
        Please let me know if anyone has any success with the CMP Clubs or Wal-Mart.

Best Regards to All

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Offline Road Warrior

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 12:06:49 AM »
From the Commonwealth of PA to the Commonwealth of VA - a fast suggestion...

A sticky thread on the forum might be a place to start.  It would take a bit of coordination and 'temporary' editing of the confirmations our shooters receive when they sign up on the website for a shoot, but here's a thought or two...

  • Sticky thread is created that isn't listed anywhere on the site for the general public to elbow in on
  • Thread link is sent to each signed up participant (with a bold message line NOT to post the link on any internet websites/forums.  This will hopefully keep the info for our shoot participants only); change the link every 60 days.
  • SBs, ITs, Appleseed etc. post in the thread places they've seen ammo available
  • If the forum supports 'subscribing' to a thread, and the participant subscribes to said thread, emails will alert them to new posts

Anything will help the situation for folks trying to find ammo.  A Hunter's Guide To Foraging For Ammo might also be posted:

  • Check gun related forums for postings by members on places that have ammo available
  • Get on email subscription lists for your favourite internet ammo pimps (i.e. websites) to be alerted to shipments and sales
  • Patronize your local gun shop frequently - good customers can sometimes get a sales manager to help them out with extra ammo for a great class such as Appleseed!
  • Find the Facebook page for your local gun shops and "Like" them - you'll see early sales annoucements and 'what arrived today!' postings
  • See if your local gun shops have Rewards programs or the like - get on their email lists for sales and product announcements
  • Enlist family members in neighboring cities (ammo can be shipped via UPS or FedEX ground with a ORD declaration) to look for sales or available ammo in their areas

Just a couple of off the cuff ideas while the synapses are still functioning for the evening...  ;)  More suggestions are welcome!

Offline Jungle George

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2013, 03:41:03 AM »
One of the problems I have found with the 22 shortage is this.  A guy I know has a friend at Walmart he calls him telling him they just put bulk ammo on the shelves at 12:30 am he runs out there buys it all then tells his friends he has came into some ammo.  He then sells it for double what he paid for it.  These people are causing the shortage and the continued panic buying. 
    It is a sad state of affairs, hopefully it will die out soon.

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Offline FiremanBob

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2013, 09:02:53 AM »
There were two ads in VAguntrader.com yesterday for CCI 1600 packs, but one guy wanted $400 (25 cents/round) and the other $300 (19 cents/round) so I passed.

The clerk at the Cville Walmart suggested I come in on Monday at 7:00 am, that's when he puts out the ammo delivery. But he said that in the past two weeks all he received was 3 small boxes.
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Offline JL

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2013, 04:08:29 PM »
Around 1100 today Superior Pawn & Gun on Virginia Beach Blvd in VA Beach had about 20 boxes of Winchester 555 boxes sitting on the counter.  That's the good news, the bad news was it was $79.99 per box. 

Offline Justin

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2013, 06:15:25 AM »
Well, I for one have certainly heard from prospective attendees as well as registered students regarding their inability to obtain 22 ammunition, and the simple reality that, without ammunition, they will be unable to attend.  My regional coordinator tells me he is also hearing from prospective students regarding this issue.

Our local Walmart store people have told me that they will not be receiving or shelving any ammunition in the foreseeable future.  The local small business ammo retailers tell me that they have been told not to expect any deliveries of ammo for the remainder of the year, if not longer. This is not second-hand/third-hand info, nor internet gossip, it what I have personally been told.  This issue is now being covered by the National News media as well.

There is much bantering about on the interweb regarding whether or not Walmart and other retailers are actually out of supply, whether they are gaming the supply-and-demand system, or whether some shadowy entity is either blocking distribution or buying up all the available ammunition to keep it out of the hands of the public.  To me, all of that is irrelevant, the simple truth for the time being is that prospective students cannot go out to any store, order via phone/internet, or otherwise purchase ammunition, which means they will not be attending events.

Unlike BeSwift and others, I am not sitting on a sizable cache of 22 ammo, and simply do not have enough to supply what is needed for an event, let alone all the events scheduled through the remainder of the year.  If I were to find some magic source of ammo, I am not in a financial position to give away brick after brick of ammo, and the complications of re-selling ammo to students as a representative of the RWVA is staggering.  The sales tax issue is only the beginning. 

At the events locally, the majority of the first-time attendees have come out to learn to shoot.  The shooting and marksmanship is the hook to get students out to be exposed to the heritage and history.  This is the simple genius of Fred's project.  Are we overwhelmed with demand for Library-seeds?  Not that I can see.  At least not from here anyway.

Today this ammo issue is troublesome.  Next month it stands to be problematic.  In six months it may be overwhelming.  Or it may be a non-issue if availability of ammo returns.  Whatever the case, I think this issue deserves more than informal, uncoordinated regional attention by a program that is dependent on ammunition to function.

That's all I have to say about that (for now)

Mark

PS:  In previewing my post I think I need to add emphatically:  Nothing I am writing is meant in any way to marginalize or criticize those who are attempting to find local solutions.  Kudos to you for trying.  I just think this is a bigger issue than we can solve by all trying to be at Walmart at 9 every evening to stand-by while the clerks open the daily delivery boxes.

M

If it is any help, if I come into a decent stock at  a reasonable price a week or two prior to an event, I'll let you know and maybe we can work something out. I'll keep you posted.

Offline FiremanBob

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2013, 09:51:09 PM »
According to the Walmart Android app I just downloaded, Walmart in Powhatan has Federal Auto Match 325ct boxes in stock right now.
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Offline The Wolfhound

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2013, 10:25:35 PM »
SCORE!
We have our first find.  The local WalMart had 100 round boxes of Winchester Super Speed 40 grain round nose and 37 grain hollow point
The stash has 600 rounds of each.  Any of our shooters need some?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 12:42:01 AM by The Wolfhound »

Offline colycat

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2013, 10:30:07 PM »
If our wall marts ever get any 22lr, I intend to buy what I can and tape the receipt to it.  That way it will be easy to remember what I payed and the shooters can see that I am providing a service and not making money.

I have been using the app, but so far, no ammo.
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Offline The Wolfhound

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2013, 12:13:27 AM »
That is the way I have done it, too.  Receipts attached.

Offline FiremanBob

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2013, 11:24:47 AM »
Yesterday at 0530, the app said my local Wally in Zion Crossroad had some of that Winchester in stock. I arrived at 0700. The manager (Ernest) said that he had received nothing, and explained that the computer puts the inventory in the store as soon as it leaves the warehouse slot, but he might not receive it until three days later. He said there was no truck due Tuesday night, so the earliest he would know if he had any would be early Thursday morning. Unfortunately, they have a 3-box limit and the ammo shown in stock is only 100 rds/box.

I plan to be there at 0700 tomorrow.
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Offline BeSwift

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2013, 10:07:58 PM »
Was at Purcelleville, VA gunstore on Main St today. 500 rnds or so of CCI going for $14/box/100.. No shortage of black rifles or handgun ammo either.. BeSwift
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Offline jmdavis

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2013, 11:20:47 PM »
$14/100 is 2x the price of cci standard before the election. I have actually paid the same or a little less for 100 ELEY Club Xtra from Champion's Choice in the last month and a half.
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Offline The Wolfhound

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2013, 09:35:10 AM »
The Winchester I bought was 7.37 for the 40 grain and 6.97 for the HP.  This is the higher grade of Winchester in the red plastic packaging. Maybe a 20% raise?

Offline FiremanBob

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2013, 05:51:11 PM »
There are several WTS ads in VAguntrader.com for .22lr in NoVA. Price seems to be 12 cents/round. There are a couple of idiot asking 20 cents or more for Minimags but their ads aren't moving.

I would caution against buying the really cheap stuff, such as Remington Thunderbolt, Golden Bullet and Aguila. At our bullseye clinic last night a guy failed to notice a squib, fired again and destroyed a S&W 41 barrel. I have had high percentages of misfire issues with both Remington bulk and Aguila and would never shoot either again. The Remington military surplus from CMP is fine.
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Offline The Wolfhound

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2013, 10:17:26 PM »
Good News Bad News
I saw a new product at Walmart.  Unfortunately I saw it in someone else's hands.  I got there just late enough to verify its existence but not in time to purchase.  1000 round bulk packs of Winchester .22LR!  It is hitting the market.  It was here.  At a cost of approximately $50 for the (black) box.  Keep your eyes open and you may see and score some at your store.  At least it is coming in! 

A bit of later research shows this was the "M22" packaging. 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 03:02:24 PM by The Wolfhound »

Offline The Wolfhound

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2013, 02:57:36 PM »
SCORE AGAIN!

3- 225 round boxes of Remington (New, Improved, they claim) Golden Bullets.  At a smidge over $10 a box I was happy to grab it.  This should make it easier to keep shooters on the line.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 03:05:31 PM by The Wolfhound »

Offline The Wolfhound

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2013, 10:32:17 PM »
One week before our first shoot of the year and no one has requested ammo assistance and I have
SCORED AGAIN
3 boxes of CCI Tactical 375 round 40 grainers.
This is ammo I will be happy to keep if no one needs it.  My AR with the CMMG converter seems to like it.

Offline sgtmace

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2013, 11:20:09 PM »
Easy there big fella. We don't want to see ya on a show like -Hoarding, Buried Alive- $$-0
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Offline FFJim

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2013, 08:43:28 PM »
Since I have been unsuccessful in finding ammo to purchase in stores, I tried a different method this weel. I assessed my ammo situation and decided I could part with some of my .223 if I could get CCI Mini Mag specifically. I used pre-hysteria pricing and decided that a 20 round box of .223 was equivalent to a 100 round tray of CCI Mini Mag.

I posted a trade offer on the local shooters forum. In less than 2 hours I had 4 offers. I am now down 200 rounds of .223 and up 1,000 rounds of Mini Mag.

A rifleman's got to do what a rifleman's got to do!  ;D

Stay safe!
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Offline Mr.Freedom

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2013, 06:34:01 AM »
Around 1100 today Superior Pawn & Gun on Virginia Beach Blvd in VA Beach had about 20 boxes of Winchester 555 boxes sitting on the counter.  That's the good news, the bad news was it was $79.99 per box.

That sounds like price gouging to me. I am keeping an eye on suppliers that do that. I will not do business with them in the future. That 555 well a reasonable markup should be around 25 to 30 dollars I would think, and even that is higher than usual.
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Offline FiremanBob

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2013, 10:33:58 AM »
Finally, I scored today. My Walmart Android app said there was Federal Automatch in my local store, and I called at 7:30 am to verify it was. There were about nine 325 rd. boxes of Automatch at $14.97 and six 375 rd. boxes of CCI Tactical at $24.97, so it was an easy decision. I got the 3-box limit of Federal. The manager said my dog could not count as a separate purchaser, so that was it. He also said that a group of guys come in at 8:30 and buy everything, so I was lucky.

Although the app said several other stores had it in stock, I'm sure it's gone by now (9:32 am).
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Offline Monkey

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2013, 05:53:38 PM »
Around 1100 today Superior Pawn & Gun on Virginia Beach Blvd in VA Beach had about 20 boxes of Winchester 555 boxes sitting on the counter.  That's the good news, the bad news was it was $79.99 per box.

That sounds like price gouging to me. I am keeping an eye on suppliers that do that. I will not do business with them in the future. That 555 well a reasonable markup should be around 25 to 30 dollars I would think, and even that is higher than usual.

Is it price gouging - probably, at 16 cents a round, give or take.

Problem is, that's about as cheap as you can find it, save camping out in Walmart.  Gunbot has been showing it consistently available at .30/rd.  Anything less usually gets scooped up quickly.

FiremanBob - great score.  Great meeting you, Mike, Wolfhound, CIA, and the others this past weekend.  Left a wonderful impression on my wife and daughter as well.
"5 minutes for this stage - that's like a week in people years!"

"Responsibility is a unique concept... You may share it with others, but your portion is not diminished. You may delegate it, but it is still with you... If responsibility is rightfully yours, no evasion, or ignorance or passing the blame can shift the burden to someone else. Unless you can point your finger at the man who is responsible when something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really responsible.”
― Hyman G. Rickover

Offline BeSwift

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Re: A Virginia Solution to the ammo shortage
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2013, 10:17:43 PM »
Natchez has CCI Standard Vel and Green Tag in stock NOW.. HURRY    http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=CC0032
"The purpose of life is not to be happy. It is to be useful, to be honorable, to be compassionate, to have it make some difference that you have lived and lived well"
Ralph Waldo Emerson


Happiness =  Reality - Expectations