AAR - Throop, NY

[zercool]

(Saturday Only)
Aside from being brutally hot, it was a very nice shooting day at a pretty decent facility. The morning was hazy/foggy driving up from Ithaca, and the 300m line at the range was pretty hazy when I got there.

Nickle opened the morning with a safety briefing, Scout made sure he had the furthest drive (he did), and KDan complained about getting up too early. 

As we started things off, we had 16 shooters on the line, with a nice array of weaponry: my own Savage bolt 22, an AR with .22LR upper, several 10/22s, an AR/5.56, an AK (Saiga?) 7.62x39, an M1A, and a few other 22s I didn't identify. At least one shooter had never fired a gun before, but his shooting was decent to begin with. Ages ranged from 14 or so up to "older'n'Nickle" - I think Ron took the title of senior shooter.

We began shooting with a redcoat - which no one cleared. Definitely had some nice groups to begin with, but for new shooters or Riflemen knocking off some dust and rust, those Redcoats are a wakeup call.

After the redcoats we started 1" squares, working on tightening up some groups and getting scopes and sights into alignment. Interspersed with some instruction on form and prone shooting, with KDan serving as a mostly-willing model, it was nice to walk down the line of targets and see the rapid progression from 15-18MOA groups down to 3-4MOA. People were calling their shots, adjusting NPOA, and really getting the hang of it.

We broke from shooting for an extended history lesson (first and second strike) while Scout found charcoal for the grill and Cheryl graciously fixed 'dogs for everyone. Ate lunch in what shade we could find (it was pushing 90F and still high humidity by this point, with very little breeze), then spent half an hour running ball and dummy drills.

More instruction on position (standing, this time), then we tacked up a Rapid AQT and shot the standing portion. Groups looked pretty decent all the way down the line, and folks were calling their fliers. Talked about sitting/cross-ankle/spread-leg/RPP, then shot the first sitting target. More brief instruction on how to drop to a sitting position, then shot the second sitting target with a transition.

Struck those targets, put up another AQT, and did some NPOA drills. (For the record: hearing Nickle and KDan say "I want to see some butts wigglin'!" is really deeply disturbing.) We shot the full RapidAQT at that point, and there were definitely some folks knocking - I expect to see a post from Nickle listing several new Riflemen tonight. As it was, we had one Rifleman: Congrats to Mike (Nickle, did I remember right?), who shot an astounding *217* on his first AQT!

We shot one more redcoat, had a brief talk on being involved in your community, looked over the redcoats and gave folks some comparisons to where they'd been first thing in the morning (everyone saw some dramatic change), and folks were on their way...

Unfortunately, I was only able to fit in one day for this weekend, but there will be more.

Oh. And Nickle convinced me to agree to being an IIT. I expect folks will see more of me at shoots as the work schedule and wedding schedule allow.

[Cowlesy]

Wow thanks for the great report ---- I am so pissed I couldn't go (in NYC and working the first 3 weekends of a quarter-end month). 

I was shooting my brand new M&P 15 for the 12 hours I was home for Independence Day weekend and was thinking how better a shot I would be when I can get myself to an Appleseed shoot.

Hopefully will make it to the next one.

Thanks again for the report.

[zercool]

Cowlesy, there are tentative plans for a September shoot in the Watertown area. Watch the NY board and the AS schedule for a definite answer on that!

Of course, we'd expect you to bring a couple friends to share the price of gas!

[colycat]

Zercool,

Yes you have to be an instructor.  I just did my first last weekend in IL(ucks) and it was a blast.  It must be really hard in the east with all the metro sexual males around.  Try to get the boy scouts involved.  Your gen is probably lost for good.  A bunch of male women. 

In the midwest even the women are strong, and can they ever shoot.  2 gals made rifleman at their first appleseed

Colycat

[B9]

The range was great, the hosts are straight up good people.


Excellent instruction from Scout, kDan and Nickle


M1A shooter. I know he was glad to have Scout there. You can hear the conviction in Scout voice.


Nickle on Saturday showing us where the water will be coming from on Sunday

[zercool]

Zercool,

Yes you have to be an instructor.  I just did my first last weekend in IL(ucks) and it was a blast.  It must be really hard in the east with all the metro sexual males around.  Try to get the boy scouts involved.  Your gen is probably lost for good.  A bunch of male women. 

In the midwest even the women are strong, and can they ever shoot.  2 gals made rifleman at their first appleseed

Colycat

Coly, this is upstate NY, it's farm country. Not too many girly-men around here.

[Scout]

I don't think I saw any metros at the Throop shoot. We had a very diverse crowd there too. Including a woman from Poland, A man from Greece, a fellow from Slovakia, Puerto Rico, we had folks from Penn. from Vermont, Brooklyn, Manhatten, central and southern NY. A great crowd. Texas too

The woman from Poland went from never having handled a rifle before in her life to becoming a 100 yard shooter. Everyone made vast improvements and three riflemen were made. I finally got to meet Nickel and he was just as great a guy in person as he has always been online. Always ready to help and to give you the shirt off his back. Just a good man.

Blueskies was there also doing all the admin and she was as nice a gal as you could hope to meet. K-Dan is a great instructor and will make a great SB. The NY State Coordinator, Ed was there and it was a pleasure to meet him also. So good to meet the folks and be able to put a face to the names.

We got soaked today. Hours and hours of shooting in the rain, swimming down to check targets an discuss them in a Noah's Ark style rain. We fudged around with shooting under the benches under cover until we were so soaked from going down to check targets, that we just moved back out into the storm and stayed there.

Everyone was just great and all who attended were pleased with the shoot. I talked a guy who was shoting on Friday into coming to watch the shoot on Saturday. He belonged to the Waterloo Gun Club. After coming and watching the event on Saturday and talking to the board members, he asked if we would be willing to have a meeting with the Waterloo club this week. So that might be another range and club coming on board.  

[B9]

First time Appleseeder with a kDan loaner. ToTo had natural good form. This was early on, three things not perfect, one of which he fixed so well it became an example of how to do it right.


IIT and future SB, but still remembers how to cook. kDan fixing a snack for some 'seeders.

[Nickle]

Actually, kDan isn't an IIT. His Red Hat just hasn't caught up with him yet.

[B9]

My apologies kDan, I knew it was coming just did not know it was allready a done deal.
Congratulations!

[kDan]

I'm so tired my speech is slurred.  Rain and tractor trailers all the way home.  Stupid work all day.  No shower since friday morning.  Sleepin' on the ground in the rain, mm-hmm.  Car still full of wrappers, wet gear and dirty shorts - and Scout's freaking 18 hot dogs! "Those are good for a week once they're cooked."  Yeah, well they smell terrible in a hot car full of trash!  I don't even know where they are anymore.  ...rollin' around.  You can have them back at Jericho... still be good right?

...ah, the trail.

Props to all my New York peoples who made the pilgrimage from our fine city, capital of the world.  Talk about struggle.  Everybody always breakin' b*lls about "city slickers".  Wait 'til my boys from the bronx show up at Allemans.  Shut 'em up good you bet.

Metro sexuals, wiggling butts, and lady men?   -  Something to get off your chest fellas?  :-*

I had a blast in Throop.  Everybody - WOOHOO!!
wish I could say more, but my eyes are closing.

ps - nickle's the man

[rero360]

I wish I could have been there, I've been traveling way too much lately, and more to do, plus with money being alittle tight I decided it was best to stay home this weekend. 

[KodyJaret]

I enjoyed Throop immensely and has been said meeting the people puts faces and voices to our phantom forum friends.
I continue to be amazed as to how far people travel to put these things on, let alone participate.

Which gives me an idea for a t-shirt :

    APPLESEED PROJECT,,,DOING THE WORK 'AMERICANS' WON'T DO

[Scout]

I wish I could have been there, I've been traveling way too much lately, and more to do, plus with money being alittle tight I decided it was best to stay home this weekend. 

Make your family eat Ramen for a week, I have done that. 10 cents per person for each meal (chicken, beef or delicious shrimp) and you will soon have the amount needed for gas for an Appleseed

I wanted to tell Nickel and K-Dan again how much I appreciated working with them. I learned a lot from them as I do evry single APpleseed I work. Nickle has a much more laid back style than I do, and he still cranks out Rifleman left and right.

I am also getting to where I can tell what BC an instructor went to just by listening to them instruct. I could tell K-Dan was a JB product and he did a great job out at Throop. After a while you can hear echoes of each different Master Instructor from the instructors they produce and you can learn to listen for the keywords and phrases.

We have a great program and great instructors and members, which reinforces the fact that with this program and with the great people attending, nothing is impossible for Appleseed.

 

[welder]

New guy here making my first post. I attended Saturday only at Throop. Glad I went. Haven't shot much rifle in a long time. It was a last minute decision on whether to go or not. Grabbed a 10/22 out of the safe that I hadn't looked at in years and had never shot before.

Yeah...I'm the guy that showed up with no sling, no stapler, scope not properly adjusted, wrong prescription safety glasses, not enough mags for the Ruger, scope mounts that loosened up...and on and on.

No elbow pads either...that, coupled with a t-shirt and a very course carpet left me with a raw spot on my left elbow from changing N.P.O.A. I'll learn...

But...these things were all worked out (except the skinned elbow)...with a little help from Nickle, Scout, Dan, and Brian (zercool). Thanks to all of you...and to the nice lady for cooking the hot dogs (Nickle's wife, I think?)...yeah...I neglected to bring my own lunch too.

My shooting markedly improved over the course of the day...as I got things sorted out a bit...I'm actually proud of my last Quick n' Dirty AQT that we shot at the end of the day. It's not Rifleman quality yet, but I'm going to start doing some minor things to get my two 10/22's sorted out and hopefully someday I'll make it with some practice.

I'm hoping to go to another Appleseed someday and would like to bring my 16-year-old son next time. I'll be watching the schedule for events within a reasonable distance that my schedule allows.

Thanks again.

[Nickle]

But...these things were all worked out (except the skinned elbow)...with a little help from Nickle, Scout, Dan, and Brian (zercool). Thanks to all of you...and to the nice lady for cooking the hot dogs (Nickle's wife, I think?)...yeah...I neglected to bring my own lunch too.

My shooting markedly improved over the course of the day...as I got things sorted out a bit...I'm actually proud of my last Quick n' Dirty AQT that we shot at the end of the day. It's not Rifleman quality yet, but I'm going to start doing some minor things to get my two 10/22's sorted out and hopefully someday I'll make it with some practice.

I'm hoping to go to another Appleseed someday and would like to bring my 16-year-old son next time. I'll be watching the schedule for events within a reasonable distance that my schedule allows.

Thanks again.

Nice having you there.

Just so you know, that wasn't my wife, it was my girlfriend, Cheryl. No harm, no fiul, and she'll get a good laugh out of it.

I remember your vast improvement from the morning.

And, just so you know, the next one in the area should be Sep 13-14, Croghan, NY, New Bremen F&G. Not quite locked in yet. Plus, we're working on one at Waterloo.

Look at the Liberty Training Rifle thread (in General discussion) for info on tarting up your 10/22.

[B9]

A young shooter, bet he learned alot from his dad before coming to an Appleseed.


Ball and dummy. Don't know if it is anyones favorite thing to do, but it works.


Rob getting his NOPA set under the watchfull eye of Natalia(sp?)


Even the Minutemen had paperwork to do. Thanks, Cheryl.

[colycat]

O. K. I'm sorry for my remarks about New York.  Even the city itself seems to have the stuff that Appleseeds are made of.  I Can't say the same about Chicago.  Although the state of Ill(ucks) seems to be on fire.

Sorry New Yorkers,  I was wrong about you guys and gals.  It looks like you have a great AS program going.  Thank you.

Colycat

[zercool]

Sorry New Yorkers,  I was wrong about you guys and gals.  It looks like you have a great AS program going.  Thank you.

Coly, I think this means you have to come instruct at a shoot here in NY...

[KodyJaret]

Hey Welder,,,,

Sorry i missed you,,,glad you could make it,,,I told you abot the elbow pads (I tell everybody). I made it Sunday,,,

I'll be looking for for you at Elbridge....

As for Colycat,,,(boy I could fun w/ that moniker),,,say what you like,,we know who we are,,,

[kDan]

Hey Guys,

Sorry I was so grumpy.  Forgot to wear my crystal that day.  Always makes me...  tense.   And Coly, Zercool's right, we could use some help over here and you're welcome anytime! 

Welder - wish you could have stuck around.  You're a rifleman in the making no doubt.  Changing out your stock for a Nickle loaner with the swivel stud made a world of difference, right?  That's the thing about this system.  All these steps, all this information - it's all a part of the whole and each one is important.  Took me a while to really understand that.  Good luck with your 10/22 project.  A lot of shooters prefer to put the stud in the stock on those LTR's because the barrel band is unwanted - free float barrels and all.  Then the stock looks funny, granted, but hey looks ain't what we're after, and you could just buy a new stock.  I'm partial to the black synthetics.  they do look cool.  Those stock 10/22's are all ugly anyway.  Sorry, Bill, if you're looking down at us.  It's that action we love.

Scout - all my daughter wants to eat is Ramen!  She has designs on the remainder though - "New shoes cure the blues", she says.  I remember all I needed was a tennis ball and set of steps to throw it against until I was sixteen.  It was a pleasure working with you as well.  That big sky humor and hospitality is a refreshing presence.  And free hamburgers for the line is a bonus seldom scene.  As to your comments about teaching styles, I will be proud indeed to represent the school of Junior Birdman (Ramseur  TWO OH EIGHT!!).  Somehow, I cannot neglect to mention Mr. Ornell.  As far as I'm concerned they're a team.  At least they made a good one at the RBC.  Side note, you think those birch trees are hard to see in the rear view mirror, have a go at a fire hydrant.  Can't see them when they're in front of the truck!

And you're right about Nickle's system.  Another year of this and we'll be tripping over Rifleman here in the Northeast.  And the man is just full of technical information and apt stories.  Spent more time sitting around Imker's table with him at Van Etten and I'm looking forward to camping and barbecuing at Jericho.  Maybe the best thing about Appleseed is the people you meet.  No, definitely the best thing about Appleseed.  Good people who step up.  What more do you want?

Zercool, Welcome aboard!  And great report, thanks!  We're getting a group together with Ed at the helm for New York.  I know he doesn't want to take all the credit, and he can't have it all.  Heck, Nickle has practically set up residency in Cayuga County.  But he is the one making the phone calls and connections and I am happy to take direction from a gentleman such as himself.  And a photographer to boot!  Those pics are great and an excellent recruiting tool.  I am already getting calls from friends of the friends I brought up.  We're gonna start an NY subset of Art Handler Appleseeders!  Gotta admit, there may be some metros in there, but anybody doubts the manhood (or wo-manhood) of someone driving a truck full of thousand pound crates of million dollar freight on the mean streets should try it for a week.   Who cares if they play guitar...

Who's coming to Jericho...  a border crossing away?

[colycat]

Zercool,

Who knows,  I really like most of New York State..  Looks like Montana for me this fall though.

Thanks for the invite.

Colycat.

[welder]

welder - wish you could have stuck around.  You're a rifleman in the making no doubt.  Changing out your stock for a Nickle loaner with the swivel stud made a world of difference, right?  That's the thing about this system.  All these steps, all this information - it's all a part of the whole and each one is important.  Took me a while to really understand that.  Good luck with your 10/22 project.  A lot of shooters prefer to put the stud in the stock on those LTR's because the barrel band is unwanted - free float barrels and all.  Then the stock looks funny, granted, but hey looks ain't what we're after, and you could just buy a new stock.  I'm partial to the black synthetics.  they do look cool.  Those stock 10/22's are all ugly anyway.  Sorry, Bill, if you're looking down at us.  It's that action we love.

kDan,

Yes, the stock w/sling definitely helped! I looked for some of my old 10/22 "goodies" when I got home...I found the studs with Q/R swivels, an extended magazine release, my original walnut stock that I refinished a long time ago, an M-1 Carbine-style ventilated handguard for 10/22, a flash hider, a Ram-Line 30 round magazine (pre-ban, of course), and a "trigger shoe".

I'm probably going to get a better scope-mount with some lower rings. Those see-thru rings that are on there now are terrible.

I've tried a couple times to order Fred's rifleman book and some targets off his M-14 site, but it doesn't seem to be working...a page comes up that speaks of a security issue and recommends navigating away from the site.

I'm curious...how much more accurate is one of those target 10/22's with the heavy barrel?

When I bought my first 10/22 thirty years ago (brand new $69.95)...they only had two models...the standard carbine and the Sporter. There's so many choices now, it's confusing. I'm going to work with the two that I have, at least for now...both standard carbines. Wouldn't mind having some kind of Sporter stock that doesn't have the front barrel band.

[welder]

Hey Welder....

I'll be looking for for you at Elbridge.

Sounds good, man!

P.S.-I like your rifle!

[kDan]

Welder,

Just got a minute before I have to get back to work.

As far as the heavy barrel vs. standard carbine barrel - you don't really need to pay for a target barrel.  Pretty much any rifle you see on the line is more accurate than it's shooter.  If you're shooting to within a minute of angle with the standard barrel, then yeah, what the heck juice that baby up!

For our purposes, four minutes of angle is plenty accurate.  The heavy barrels do look cool, and feel nice and stable because they are.  These are considerations not to be ignored.

At Athol, I saw a black synthetic stocked 10/22 with a black heavy barrel.  Got hot in the sun, but what a beautiful rifle.

Just wanted to add one thing...  if you could have come on sunday, Scout handed out copies of Fred's Guide to everyone there. 
psst - don't tell fred.

kDan

[colycat]

Kodyjerrert,

PM me with your fun with my moniker.  Just so Im ready. 


Colycat, thanks

P.S. I went on a forum for e bay, my only question was, why doesnt ebay permit anything related to guns?  I did not insult anyone.  You would not believe the sh-t thrown at me!!  I was called collostibag, or somthing like that and much worse.

[Badwolf]

Nickle, Scout, K-Dan, thanks again for all your help, you run a great program . Scout thanks especially for your tip on holding high in a torential downpour, the issustration you drew made it all so clear.  Dave from Pa.

[Old Glory!]

We got soaked today. Hours and hours of shooting in the rain, swimming down to check targets an discuss them in a Noah's Ark style rain. We fudged around with shooting under the benches under cover until we were so soaked from going down to check targets, then we just moved back out into the storm and stayed there.

Big thanks to the administration for letting me on this forum.  I have been reading, with great interest, the AAR's around the country.  (I am from "The Land of Cheese", as The Guy puts it.)  There is REALLY A LOT OF GOOD STUFF going on around these United States.   

The men and women of Throop, NY are impressive!     ".....we just moved back out into the storm and stayed there."  WOW!  You were soaked and still shooting?!?!!  I can only aspire to persevere in such adverse conditions; just attended my first AS in Ottowa, IL, and if you have read the posts, the weather was PERFECT.  Where does a person find that kind of tenacity!  I gotta get some of that!   

Old Glory!

[SonOfLiberty]

Newbie. First post.

The Appleseed Shoot in Throop was far better than I expected it to be, and I expected great things. My first Appleseed and certainly not my last. The instructors-Scout, Nickle, and Kdan were all extremely helpful and informative. I was using my Yugo SKS and did not qualify but that's just making me train that much harder. Still upset that I was unable to attend the Jericho shoot due to rides falling through. Will make the New Bremen shoot unless it conflicts with the September gun show in Syracuse If I do I plan to bring my little brother(14), little sister(12), and girlfriend.

Scout-THANK YOU FOR THE GUIDE!!! I've bought every gun I've ever wanted except the one I want the most, an M1A, and after reading through the entire guide, have decided that I will have one by September 1st-even if it means I have to sell my AK and G19 to get it

Thanks again to the instructors-Kdan, Nickle, and Scout for all their help. Hope to see you all again sometime soon.

[B9]

"Will make the New Bremen shoot unless it conflicts with the September gun show in Syracuse"

It does, same weekend. There will be another gun show. Will there be another NY Appleseed?

Now that I think about it, if there is not more Appleseeds there may not be another gun show.