10/22 Liberty Training Rifles -- Good for Appleseed AND for your budget!

[Old Dog]

I'm not sure any "QD" or stud mounted front sling swivel is made to take much repeated pressure.  After all, that's why QD swivels have become so popular.  You take it off and put it in your pocket to hunt with it or shoot it and you put the sling back on it to carry the rifle on your shoulder while you drag the deer out of the woods.

What does the military use?  Why does the military use what they use?

I put an M14 front sling swivel on my 10/22 and the only way it will pull off the stock is if the stock splits in half.

Oh, the rear sling swivel on my 10/22 is from a 1917 Enfield and it won't fall out or break either.  Overkill works.

[Grunt Medic]

Yeah, I'm kind of a "classic look rifle" kind of a guy. I like the old WWII rifle look. I played with my "black rifle" for so long in the Army that I just don't like the looks of them anymore, been there done that. I'm also hoping to figure out a way to embed 2 of my new Appleseed Challange coins in either side of my stock. I think the magic of the coins will help me shoot Rifleman at Allemans on April 18/19

The reason I have the .22 AR is for my own training - that's the platform I'll be carrying when my Battalion deploys at the end of this year, after all - and I figure if I can get some of my Guard buddies on the line with the lure of a black rifle, then it's all to the good!

As to inletting an RWVA coin into a stock - it's obvious we think alike.  Disassemble the action from the stock, clamp the stock in some kind of vise or similar arrangement, and use a proper sized Forstner bit to drill a circular recess.

Test fit the coin to make sure the depth of the recess is to your liking...

a dab of epoxy, your coin, and a topcoat of expoxy to seal it in, and you're done!


Must have worked, since I shot Rifleman with it afterward - only took me 4 days of Boot Camp to do so.   Now I just need to put up pics of the completed rifle...

[eaglescouter]

http://www.nodakspud.com/NDS-22.htm

Appears to be a high end 10/22 receiver with a built in peep sight.  They even mention Appleseed

[fepowered]

http://www.nodakspud.com/NDS-22.htm

Appears to be a high end 10/22 receiver with a built in peep sight.  They even mention Appleseed

Here is another thread discussing it.....  http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=5214.0   

[guitarzan]

I've read all 39 pages but I still have a question.

I have a 10/22T and a set of Tech sights on the way.  What color of Loctite should one use to put the front sight adaptor on the barrel with and what type for the rear sight?

Any advice would be appreciated.

[wcmartin1]

I've read all 39 pages but I still have a question.

I have a 10/22T and a set of Tech sights on the way.  What color of Loctite should one use to put the front sight adaptor on the barrel with and what type for the rear sight?

Any advice would be appreciated.

From another thread -

As a comment to the installation guidelines on page one, I'll say that my front is now red loctited in. It loosened up on my LTR  mid afternoon Sat at AS and fell completely off a couple hours later after being blue loctited a 2nd time. Since the red, no further problems...
CaptG

[fepowered]

When you place the sight adapter on the barrel, there is a slight gap.  This adapter is a slip fit and not a pressed fit.  Conventional thread locker type Loctite brand liquid is inadequate for such an application.  Red threadlocker works OK for some slip fit applications but not when there is a gap.  The proper Loctite is the 635 (63531) Retaining Compound or an equivalent.  It is green in color although it comes in a red bottle.  It is recommended for gaps up to .007" (.18mm).   

[eaglescouter]

I disassembled a relatively new, very well treated Ruger 10/22 carbine today.

I was amazed at the amount of aluminum 'dust' that was present in the receiver.

After cleaning and reassembly the action was much smoother. 

I then performed the 'Auto Bolt Release' modification as found at rimfirecentral.com.  Now the bolt release works just like the one on the M1 Carbine.  Simply pull the bolt back and let go.  No more fussing with the little lever down under the safety.

Activating the bolt hold open works exactly the same as it does on a stock Ruger.  Only the release process is simplified..

Pictures of the modification can be seen at:  http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30867  (Note:  These are not my images, I simply found them to be helpful.)

[Nishnabotna]

So, Tech Sight has come out with an aperture set for the Marlin 795.  With Tech Sights, GI Sling, 10 rd magazine (and it looks like bolt hold open), and a good deal cheaper price than the 10/22, I may start picking Marlins up to fill the LTR role instead.  What is the average quality and accuracy out of the box with these things.  I generally have heard good things about Marlin but have no direct experience.  Give me your opinions.

[wcmartin1]

So, Tech Sight has come out with an aperture set for the Marlin 795.  With Tech Sights, GI Sling, 10 rd magazine (and it looks like bolt hold open), and a good deal cheaper price than the 10/22, I may start picking Marlins up to fill the LTR role instead.  What is the average quality and accuracy out of the box with these things.  I generally have heard good things about Marlin but have no direct experience.  Give me your opinions.

Try these links -

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=4148.0
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=5538.0
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=5511.0
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=5484.0
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=4428.0

[Nishnabotna]

So, Tech Sight has come out with an aperture set for the Marlin 795.  With Tech Sights, GI Sling, 10 rd magazine (and it looks like bolt hold open), and a good deal cheaper price than the 10/22, I may start picking Marlins up to fill the LTR role instead.  What is the average quality and accuracy out of the box with these things.  I generally have heard good things about Marlin but have no direct experience.  Give me your opinions.

Try these links -

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=4148.0
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=5538.0
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=5511.0
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=5484.0
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=4428.0

OK, so it looks like the 795 is, if not outright prefered to the 10/22, at least as good as and almost half the price.  Should we start thinking about pushing the Marlin over the Ruger as the LTR?  I know there's not as much aftermarket support for the Marlin, but what do you really need after the Tech Sights and the sling?

[wcmartin1]

  I'll just say this. I've had 10/22s for nearly 30 years. My own LTR has more than 6000 rounds through it, (probably just short of 10,000 rounds, come to think of it now), and has helped a few folks make Rifleman. 

   I've never put a lot of money in them because they are trainers. I've never put in any aftermarket extractors, bolts, firing pins, triggers, etc, and I've never had any problems with FTF, FTE, Fail to Anything. I mounted Tech Sights because it makes it more Appleseed Friendly. (The thing has a LOT of different shooters and gets sight changes very often. The Ruger sights don't lend themselves to that!  )

   I've never worried about my tech sights being off center to the left or right, since they shoot 2 moa groups right where they're supposed to. I've never worried about the barrel drooping because , well, see the last sentence. Basically, it's a simple rifle which works day in and day out and will perform well beyond anything required of it by Appleseed standards.

  I do understand tinkering. I love to tinker and experiment with rifles too. But when it comes down to it, the 10/22, right out of the box, will do just what we want it to: Train marksmen.  If you want to tinker, go ahead, it's fun. Is any of this stuff really needed to make the rifle train Riflemen? Nah, not really.

   If you want to buy a different kind of rifle and put it on the line for others to shoot, have at it! I can guarantee you that it'll perform better than the shooter will ever shoot. Put on a scope, tech sights, modify the bolt, crown, trigger or anything else you want. The main thing is to get rifles out there on the line putting rounds downrange and hammering out Riflemen.

   This thread has about 785,394 posts now, many of which are repeats, many of which are multilple repeats. Many are "Why I hate the 10/22" posts, others are "Why Your Rifle Sux and How to Fix It" posts. But the truth is that every time I go to an Appleseed, I see many of the 10/22s on the line, shooting, building skills, and if they're cleaned more than once a lifetime or so, FUNCTIONING properly.  (And that seems to go for ANY rifle for some reason....hmmmm)

    Get an extra rifle or two. Take them to an Appleseed. Loan them to other shootrs to build the skills. That is what LTRs are about. Each kind of rifle on the line has good and not so good things about it. But in the end that's not what matters.  JB
   

Bottom line - I've got a Marlin 795 and a Ruger 10/22.  They both get the job done.

Get the Marlin if you want and fix it up.  I'm sure you'll be happy with it.  I am.

I wouldn't waste a lot of time on it, though, as we've got more important things to do around here.  <

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=6348.0

Git-R-Done!

[Nishnabotna]

You're a funny man.

[fepowered]

OK, so it looks like the 795 is, if not outright prefered to the 10/22, at least as good as and almost half the price.  Should we start thinking about pushing the Marlin over the Ruger as the LTR?  I know there's not as much aftermarket support for the Marlin, but what do you really need after the Tech Sights and the sling?

Although there are individuals who prefer the 795 for their own reasons, the 10/22 continues to be the majority choice.  They are not significantly more expensive when new and are much more plentiful used as well as new.   One can be found or easily made to fit anyone from a toddler to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.  The only time the 795 is 1/2 the price is if you are comparing a new 10/22 with a well used 795.  You read about so many people modifying the 10/22 simply because it is easy, the parts are available and it is fun.  As is evidenced by 1K threads and 100K posts, people just naturally can't seem to leave a stock rifle alone....

[Nickle]

Now, one of you Marlin 795 knowledgeable guys really should start a separate LTR thread on it, so the info on what and how to tweak one for Appleseed doesn't get lost in the shuffle.

[wcmartin1]

So, Tech Sight has come out with an aperture set for the Marlin 795.  With Tech Sights, GI Sling, 10 rd magazine (and it looks like bolt hold open), and a good deal cheaper price than the 10/22, I may start picking Marlins up to fill the LTR role instead.  What is the average quality and accuracy out of the box with these things.  I generally have heard good things about Marlin but have no direct experience.  Give me your opinions.

Try these links -

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=4148.0
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=5538.0
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=5511.0
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=5484.0
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=4428.0

Have a moderator combine these five links into one Marlin 795 LTR thread with a sticky and voila!  Done.

[EEL]

Marlin 795 is a good rifle.  Marlin makes good stuff.  Have a 795.  Mags don't drop free.  Must break position and use 2 hands on mag change.  Mags stick out like a 25rnd on a 10/22 (may, may, compromise newbies getting elbow directly under rifle).

Not as easy to modify as very limited aftermarket accessories (stocks, mags, forearms, grips, barrels, fire control parts, etc.) available.

While it is a good, inexpensive, accurate rifle....I would still go with the 10/22.  They are far and away THE most used rifle at an AS.  If you break something, loose something, or need a mag.....Chances are someone will have what you need.

Some here swear by the 795........me, for the couple extra $$$, I'd go 10/22

EEL

[SkyDaver]

A friend has been pestering his local WalMart for a 10/22.  This weekend, the sporting goods manager (I think) told him that Ruger has backorders from Walmart for around 150,000 10/22s.  No way of saying whether said person was correct.

Just as another datapoint, I've not noticed 10/22s advertised in any of the Dick's Sporting Goods or Sports Authority flyers in several months.

[Stef]

I picked one up at Dicks 2 weeks ago and they had others on the rack.  They're out there.  If your local store is out, have them check inventory of nearby locations and they can hold one for you.

[Surculus]

I plan to bring my USGI Mossburg M44 to the Appleseed.  I'm told that others have been successful if they have done enough advance prep work to be vey comfortable with working the action and maintaining their natural point of aim.  (I have some homework to do)

The biggest hangup most people seem to have w/ shooting a bolt repeater is breaking their cheek weld on the stock.

While this is a requirement w/ an '03 Springfield [or else you'll get the safety on the back of the bolt in your eye, due to the short stock LOP], w/ every .22lr bolty I've ever encountered, it is completely unnecessary.

Practice in front of the TV, taking aim at the talking heads and working the action w/o losing your sight picture.

After that, the only trouble w/ making the score using a bolt gun is whether or not your rifle has a convenient mag system [the Mossy 44 is only so-so, my Remmy 541x is atrocious! In comparison, the 10-22 is magnificent, mag changes are a breeze, even w/ the factory mag release (which is #1 on the hit parade of things to modify...)]

I wasn't far off the mark last December using my Mossberg, & only found out after the event I had an equipment failure [the front sight was so loose in its dovetail I'm lucky (or was I?) that it didn't fall out while shooting!]: hopefully, I can scare up the money [it sux getting old, for many reasons. Money should be the least of them, but isn't, for me..  ] and get out there again & make the cut using my Mossberg! (No, I'm not going to bother trying w/ the 541 again, at least not until I fab up some sort of chamfered guide that will prevent my having to break position every time I swap a mag!  )

[Junior Birdman]

  As long as we're hijacking this thread.....COME ON 40!!!!!!

[eaglescouter]

Tech Sights were added to a Ruger 10/22 T with a factory bull barrel.

It seems that the sights are too tall to permit a proper cheek weld on the factory stock.

Am I doing it wrong or does the stock now need to be modified?



As a side note:  The bull barrel adapter for the front sight post is a loose fit, as if it is machined to large on the inside diameter.  The front sight post fits very sloppily and the set screw lifts the leading edge with a rather pronounced gap. 

[fepowered]

Tech Sights were added to a Ruger 10/22 T with a factory bull barrel.

It seems that the sights are too tall to permit a proper cheek weld on the factory stock.

Am I doing it wrong or does the stock now need to be modified?



As a side note:  The bull barrel adapter for the front sight post is a loose fit, as if it is machined to large on the inside diameter.  The front sight post fits very sloppily and the set screw lifts the leading edge with a rather pronounced gap. 

You can either get another stock, or add a cheek pad (home made or boughten) to your existing stock.  It is normal for the adapter to be loose fitting.  That is why you use a loctite which is intended to hold sleeves on and fill the gap.  It is also normal for the set screw to raise the sight insert slightly because of the loose fit.  The set screw will hold just fine.   

[AFTERMATH]

What if someone were to place shims between the barrel and the sight on the side opposite the set screw?  Thereby allowing for less verticle rise.

[fepowered]

What if someone were to place shims between the barrel and the sight on the side opposite the set screw?  Thereby allowing for less verticle rise.

This is not an issue as it causes no problems.  The looseness is in the dovetail of the adapter for the .920" diameter barrel, not between the barrel and anything.    There is not really room for shims and it would be a waste of time.  The loose fitting between the barrrel adapter and the barrel has nothing to do with the sight insert raising when the set screw is tightened.  The barrel adapter not being snug is just because of the slip fit and is not an issue if the proper loctite is used.

[CaptG]

On the affordability issue, just rec'd a Bass Pro flyer. 10/22's for $199.94 thru 4/16.
20in barrel, picture shows no barrel band.
G

[GoJohnnyGo]

I got a brand new 10/22 and am having problems with the mag release.  The release moves forward to drop the mag, but you then have to jiggle and tickle the mag out of the reciever.  There is no quick drop, in fact the last time I shot the gun I ended up using a screwdriver to pry them out as I held the release forward. I showed it to a gun smith and he said it that he'd be "mad at ruger about that". I know that the older styles have to be pulled toward the trigger guard. Has anyone else experianced this?  I plan to replace the trigger assebly with a volquartsen unit which should (better!!) fix this. 

[Garand69]

I got a brand new 10/22 and am having problems with the mag release.  The release moves forward to drop the mag, but you then have to jiggle and tickle the mag out of the reciever.  There is no quick drop, in fact the last time I shot the gun I ended up using a screwdriver to pry them out as I held the release forward. I showed it to a gun smith and he said it that he'd be "mad at ruger about that". I know that the older styles have to be pulled toward the trigger guard. Has anyone else experianced this?  I plan to replace the trigger assebly with a volquartsen unit which should (better!!) fix this. 

The factory Ruger mag was designed to be removed with two fingers. The thumb pushs the release straight up, and the mag is grasped between that thumb and index finger. Try a thourough cleaning and lightly lubricating the mag release mechanism, or you can replace it with an aftermarket extended mag release, I leave mine stock with the exception of a trigger job and replacement sights.

[Nickle]

Check for flashing on the mags from when the plastic was cast. Sometimes that keeps the mags from dropping free. With use, the factory mags should drop free. You might even want to polish them up woith a little sandpaper to make them break in faster.

[Will]

With the magazine in the gun you should be able to insert a standard business card freely on either side of the mag all the way up into the magwell to the action itself. It should have that much clearance.

If not, consider sanding the mag well portion of the stock until you have that much clearance.