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10/22 Liberty Training Rifles -- Good for Appleseed AND for your budget!

Started by Grin Reaper, May 28, 2007, 01:04:16 AM

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Grin Reaper

#30
July 07, 2007, 10:48:39 PM
Sure, as long as you represent the Liberty Trainer as a program of the Appleseed Project's members, and that I did not come up with all this good info myself, I just brought it together.
"There's gotta be a few umlauts laying around somewhere." JB

ken grant

#31
July 07, 2007, 11:13:22 PM
 Just made another mod to my 10/22 Training rifle and it made a world of difference in my shooting.
I am almost 70 yrs. old and eyesight is not great. I have problems with iron(or whatever material) sights and really don't want a scope on this rifle.
I took a Weaver TO-9 base and cut it to fit in front of my Tech sight base. I then put a cheap Red-Dot on it with a 1MOA dot and tried it out. Man, what a difference it made in my shooting.
I may have to come back and drill/tap my base and receiver for a third hole later but it's working great now.
I just used the two front screws and bedded the rear of the base with J.B. Weld to the receiver. I did wax the top of the receiver so the J.B. would not stick and the base can be removed. I also used Loc-Tite on the base screws.

TheEditor

#32
July 08, 2007, 01:14:45 AM
QuoteSure, as long as you represent the Liberty Trainer as a program of the Appleseed Project's members, and that I did not come up with all this good info myself, I just brought it together.

Absolutely.  I appreciate what everyone is doing and contributing. 

I can take the "before" picture of my stock 10-22 that I'm about to embark on making a LTR (Liberty Training Rifle, with which I hope to have a LTR - Long Term Relationship. ;D

Anyone who's got one complete and can send a pic...

JN
John N.
Author of "50 Things You Didn't Learn in School - But Should Have"
www.heuristicbooks.com

Old Dog

#33
July 08, 2007, 08:10:59 AM
http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?topic=1149.0

lots of info, as well as some pictures, from the old site, on turning a 10/22 into a MBR simulator training rifle.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

cannonman61

#34
July 12, 2007, 04:20:18 PM
OK guys,

I just got another Ruger 10/22 today. It and the other one I had previously are going in my shop this afternoon to modify into my version of the LTR. Mine will probably have a scope setup as I am a "scope guy" when it comes to shooting rifle. ( Sorry Fred) I intend to have them both up and ready for the event at Hinesville in September for my two boys. They both have MBR's (Garands) but the price of ammo is getting out of hand, even for me. Sooo.. it's LTR's for the boys while I attempt to shot rifleman with my "EBR" as I promised Grin I would in RevWar uniform.

I have been practicing a good bit since I got Fred's package and I really like the ghost targets. If my heart problems stay under control(Pumlonary Hypertension) I should give a good account of the RevWar reenactment community during the event. If not, oh well, a cook/gunsmith(artificer) may be all I will ever be. I guess I can live with that. But it wont be for lack of effort.

Thanks for the good ideas on the LTR. I will get right on them while I am here at the shop.

cannonman61

Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.

ax238

#35
July 12, 2007, 10:17:14 PM
Well, I purchased a Carbine so I have joined the ranks of the 10/22 world.  Now its on to the customizing.  Is everyone using standard velocity .22LR rounds? 

Ax
Tyrants prefer disarmed victims. Those who want freedom must be willing to fight for it.

ken grant

#36
July 12, 2007, 10:33:59 PM
 Wally World keeps raising their prices on the Special 10/22.
When I bought mine(first of the year) it $219.95, then they went to $229.95 and now they are $239.95 as of day before yesterday.
I wanted to buy another one but will now start looking for used ones( have not seen any yet)

Old Dog

#37
July 12, 2007, 11:10:11 PM
The Walmart closest to my house has stopped selling firearms.  Colonial Shooter says the one in Petersburg, VA has also stopped selling them.  Only the largest WalMart in our area will continue to sell rifles and shotguns.  He also says the ones that have stopped selling guns will also stop selling ammo as well.  Not sure I'll shop at Walmart much in the future.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

cannonman61

#38
July 13, 2007, 08:28:26 AM
Hey guys,

Bass Pro shops here in the south use the 10/22 as a loss leader in their marketing/sales scheme regularly. They are on sale July 1- 15 at the Savannah store for $169.95!!! I got mine wholesale from JSC for only a few bucks less so it pays to watch the adds if you are not an FFL holder or know one real well.
Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.

VAshooter

#39
July 13, 2007, 09:59:12 AM
M1A4ME,

My friends in the firearms industry tell me that the Wallmart stores that quit selling firearms are not doing it for political reasons. It's because the minimum wage labor they hire keep screwing up the necessary paperwork that goes with firearms transactions and the stores are getting into trouble. The easiest cure is to get out of the firearms business.

Doug in Virginia

Old Dog

#40
July 13, 2007, 11:11:24 AM
Well, maybe I'll keep buying ammo from them, if they keep selling it at reasonable prices (.22 ammo that is).
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

ddreger

#41
July 14, 2007, 06:47:43 PM
I just got mine, and slinged it up. Unfortunately tech-sights are on back order so I won't get mine in time for the Medford Appleseed (my first appleseed). I shot the rifle today with the stock irons and it is dead accurate, and will be much more so with the tech-sights and the longer site radius. Since I won't have the tech-sights in time I'll be bring my m1a to the appleseed.

Cheers.
Doug

BBA

#42
July 19, 2007, 10:42:26 AM Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 10:44:01 AM by BBA
I've been reading a lot of commentary on 22lr rifles, and found myself wondering why the 10/22 was chosen for this program.  From commentary I've read the Marlin 60 is cheaper, seems to be more accurate out of the box, is atleast equally reliable, and being tube fed instead of magazine fed i would think would be a distinct advantage in a survivalist type situation due to not having to worry about losing or wearing-out magazines.

Realizing all of the above is subjective, based on this I have started to really lean towards the Marlin 60, but I keep coming back to one of my main goals in getting a 22lr rifle is to learn to shoot & attend a appleseed.  Which of course leads me to think to myself, why buck the groups convention, going with the 10/22 will allow for commonality with other appleseeders in the event that I need assistance.

Was the 10/22 chosen primarily based on the ability to customize it for similar manual of arms as the commonly shot M1A?  How big of an issue is this? 

TreadCarefully

#43
July 19, 2007, 11:13:15 AM
Loading a tube fed takes time!

Might be better in a survivalist situation, but will really impact the tempo of an Appleseed.
Spare the tar and feathers, spoil the politician.

"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever." - Lance Armstrong

"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc."

Old Dog

#44
July 19, 2007, 12:03:26 PM
Yes, difficult to safely load (on a firing line while sitting or prone) a tube fed rifle quickly enough to finish within the time limits.

Yes, the 10/22 when set up correctly closely mimics the M1A/M1 rifle.  It's close enough for me that I've gotten down in prone, inserted the mag., wrapped up in my hasty sling, laid my cheek on the stock, gotten my NPOA and then wasted time searching for my M1A/M1's safety with my trigger finger.  Only when I raised my head up off the rifle to try to see what was wrong with the safety did I realize it was my 10/22.  When I related this story on the M14 Firing Line Public Forum it got some chuckles/laughs as others have done the same thing.  It's that close.

Accessories (sights, stocks, butt extensions, magazines, bolt hold open/release, trigger/sear, etc.) are wide open for the 10/22.  Not sure about the Marlin.

As for accuracy?  As bad as my up close eye sight is (can't focus on the front sight - always has a blurry look that I can't get rid of) my 10/22 will do 5/8" shot groups at 25 yds.

I don't care who makes it or what it looks like as long as it gets the job done.  While I think Ruger makes a good gun and I own several, none of them are my first choice for serious work of the type where your safety or your family's safety is at risk.  That's reserved for the M1A, the Colt .45 ACP and the Ithaca 12 ga. riot gun. 

Before you buy do some searching on the internet for availability of the accessories you'll need to shoot the rifle (whether at Appleseeds, the rifle range or small game hunting) and pick what you feel will work best for you.  Hopefully the folks that suggest the 10/22 are doing so based on their positive experience and not "something they heard/read".  I think you'll find that this is a forum of shooters who talk about shooting.  It's not a forum of collectors who talk about shooting.  There's a difference.  Hang around, attend an Appleseed and an RBC and you'll see the difference between shooters who talk and talkers who (sometimes) shoot.

Have a good one.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

raf

#45
July 19, 2007, 04:56:02 PM
Since it has been brought up, may I point out that from a "survivalist" point of view, tube-fed rifles have one serious liability.

One good ding in the tube and your rifle has a problem.  At best a replacement of the tube, if you have one and are able to do the job.  At worst, it is now a relatively heavy single-shot. Tube and mag maintenance about equal out, though most folks are neglectful of  both of these issues until problems crop up.  Of course, it is too late then.

The militaries of the world had a chance to evaluate tube-fed vs. mag fed rifles long ago.  Both types have seen their share of combat usage. The tube was found wanting.

If you already have a tube-fed, then by all means bring it to an Appleseed.  You will find that the Instructors will make a point of working with you and your rifle so that you can get the most out of the experience.

Grin Reaper

#46
July 19, 2007, 09:11:40 PM
BBA, to answer your question, the 10/22 was chosen by a member who wanted a rifle that had (or could have added to it) sights that approximated the sight picture of his M1A and M1 Garand.  At the time, the 10/22 with TechSights was the only choice.  TechSights has noted that they are working on a set of aperture sights for the Marlin 60, but these are not yet available.

The idea really took off when somebody (Junior Birdman?) found a stock with an adjustable length of pull for the 10/22.

Someone pointed out the quick-reload advantage of the 10/22 vs tube-fed rifles, and this was also a factor.

You're right that the Marlin 60 is less expensive; I just handled a Remington 597, which is also cheaper (maybe TechSights will make up a sight for it, next!).
"There's gotta be a few umlauts laying around somewhere." JB

ax238

#47
July 19, 2007, 10:08:38 PM
Well I have now slinged up my little 10/22!  My wife says the little rifle is not as intimidating in the house or garage as the M1A, so happy wife.....?  Woohooo!   She is the money of the marraige and when I said I can shoot ALL day for 30$, well,  she LOVES the 10/22 now!! LOL   ;D  Am I a good husband or WHAT?!?!?  Time to order the tech sights roll out the shooting matt, place the 1" blocks up at 82 feet and see what she says!

Tyrants prefer disarmed victims. Those who want freedom must be willing to fight for it.

Grin Reaper

#48
July 20, 2007, 12:51:56 AM
10/22 Liberty Training Rifles -- Good for Appleseed AND for your budget! marriage!
"There's gotta be a few umlauts laying around somewhere." JB

cannonman61

#49
July 24, 2007, 09:07:39 PM
Building my version of the 22 LTR now.

Ramline has a deal out. Injection molded stock, 2 10 round mags, extended mag release and a bipod for very litle dough. I got mine from jerrys along with a new 10-22. and a Tasco 4x scope and rings. Dealer cost just over $200.  :)

I assembled the thing and ranged it and it shows promise. I will have to work on some kind of iron sights even though I prefer glass for sights in my advancing years.  :-[

My sons will use 10-22's at our Appleseed here in Hinesville in September, while I will attempt to use my AR to make the grade. I plan on the boys bringing their Garands for some long range practice on Sunday.
Ammo cost is twice the issue when you have kids.
Mine have been shooting for years, let's hope they dont embarass me at the event when asked to shot in 3 positions. The older on wont,or shouldn't, but the younger one is not as familiar as his brother with all things rifle. He prefers his sports have a ball involved.  :-\
Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.

ax238

#50
July 24, 2007, 09:46:09 PM
i finally got my 10/22 carbine to the range yesterday.  I REALLY enjoyed shooting it.  While my groups in prone with the attached M14 sling WILL be better  with the tech sights, I got a 1.5 inch group at 82 feet with 10 shots from the factory clip!  I am not bragging, please don't take me as such.  I really enjoyed that little rifle and when I get back from vacation this coming week the first thing on the agenda ( right after loathing returning to work) is buying those tech sights.  WIth the iron sights though, I diagnosed that I needed the better sights as my groups were all about 3" spread let to right on the Small Bore NRA target. 

      I had troubles getting and staying fixed on the front sight with that buckhorn rear sight with the painted diamond on it.  I was really straining my eyes to focus and I found it rather difficult to maintain the sight picture well, eyes kept focusing to the rear.  SO...... I am encouraging all I come in contact with (my cousin from wabash shoot was with me and plans on buying one too!) to get that sling on there and tech sights!  We also had a young man just back from Talafar who was impressed with our shooting skills!  I only responded NPOA! and the Appleseed clinics JUST PLAIN HELP!!  We are working on him to get his own M4 like his he had in Iraq or (hopefully even better!) a M1A.  He really likes mine. 

     Another testimony to the Appleseed and its ability to turn not only heads around with shooting skills but also its ability to turn shooting skills around in a positive direction!

Ax
Tyrants prefer disarmed victims. Those who want freedom must be willing to fight for it.

cannonman61

#51
July 24, 2007, 09:52:11 PM
Hey Grin,

I was just on the Tech-Site website and tried to order some sets. No such luck. Both the 1000 and 2000 are on back order! :o

What did you do? Order their entire production run already?  :o

Oh, well. I will stick to glass for the time being as the stock sights just plain suck.

Cannonman
Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.

1911Ron

#52
July 24, 2007, 10:16:31 PM
If you are stuck with the stock iron sights you can black out the white diamond on the back sight, then you can put sight paint or a bright color of nail polish on the front.

ax238

#53
July 25, 2007, 09:13:32 PM
Good idea about the rear diamond sight!  I blacked out the front sight, but didnt think of the rear..DUH!!  I will wait 3 weeks then order the sights still.

Az
Tyrants prefer disarmed victims. Those who want freedom must be willing to fight for it.

Grin Reaper

#54
July 25, 2007, 11:48:13 PM
QuoteHey Grin,

I was just on the Tech-Site website and tried to order some sets. No such luck. Both the 1000 and 2000 are on back order!

What did you do? Order their entire production run already? 
I prefer to think of it as the overwhelming free-market influence of the Appleseed Program on the American small-business. ;D
"There's gotta be a few umlauts laying around somewhere." JB

BBA

#55
July 31, 2007, 05:13:54 PM
I finally foud a Walmart that still sells firearms.  It's over an hour away, but I'm there weekly for business anyways.

Quick question.  Do the WM Special 10/22's mentioned here (with the 22" barrel) have a special barrel material ?  Something like SST or plated?  The one at this WM did.  There wasn't anybody at the counter so I couldn't ask any questions when I was there, but it definitely had a different material barrel than the "carbine" version right next to it with the 18-1/2" barrel.

Also any good recommendations for quality .22 ammo available in bulk at good prices would be appreciated.

Junior Birdman

#56
July 31, 2007, 07:42:52 PM
  The Wmart special rifles have stainless barrels, (22"), and the receivers are painted silver.

   After much trial and error, seems most folks settle on the Remington Golden Bullet. 525 rounds for about 14 bucks, cheap, and the rifle really likes it.

   Last time I past the CMP south store they had 500 rd bricks of their standard velocity match ammo for $15.00.  I got a brick to try out, but haven't been able to shoot in so long I don't think I remember which end the round comes out of.  Report when I do get to it though...... unless I pick the wrong end.   JB
"But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever." John Adams

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. Fredrick Douglass

Grin Reaper

#57
August 01, 2007, 12:35:12 AM
Quotequality .22 ammo available in bulk at good prices would be appreciated.
Federal -- 550rds/$10.98 at WalMart.  Remington, about $2 more.  Winchester, somewhere in between..
"There's gotta be a few umlauts laying around somewhere." JB

cannonman61

#59
August 04, 2007, 12:50:13 PM
As I just posted on the Deals and steals thred, Basspro shops have the 10/22 on sale one day only August 19th for an astounding $139.88!!!!

Find a Basspro shop nearest you, take a buddy and go get one, or better yet two!

Lots of practice for little dough!!!

CM61
Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.
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