10/22 Liberty Training Rifles -- Good for Appleseed AND for your budget!

[Grin Reaper]

As the cost of military surplus and new-production ammunition rises, and while supplies of the same are (at best) unreliable, many Appleseed instructors and attendees have noted a need for a cost-effective means of practicing marksmanship, especially at 25 meters.  To this end, we have conducted extensive research and testing of many currently available products.
The following is a summarization of our findings and experiences in the development of the Ruger 10/22® Liberty Training Rifle.


The Appleseed Program promotes rifle safety and marksmanship, as well as knowledge of Revolutionary War history and grass-roots participation in the political process, especially as this relates to the preservation of the Second Amendment.  Thousands of satisfied Appleseed attendees have proven that the marksmanship principles that the Appleseed Program teaches at 25m translate into accurate shooting at up to 500 yards.

Unfortunately, the rising cost of ammunition has hindered the participation of some Americans in marksmanship activities.  Proficient marksmanship requires regular practice, though not necessarily at full-distance.  Practice at 25 meters, fortunately, does not require a full-power centerfire battle rifle; for this distance, a .22LR rimfire rifle is all that is required.   Moreover, many indoor ranges do not allow the use of full-power rifles, but .22LR rifles are permitted.

There are several accurate and durable .22LR rifles on the market today, but the Ruger 10/22 has proven one of the most successful.  It is both affordable and accurate, and several aftermarket accessories have been shown to make it an ideal platform for a 25m training rifle.  The components listed in this thread should not require any gunsmithing, and little mechanical aptitude is required to install them.  In short, this is a true 'do-it-yourself' project.

This should help you build a rifle that can quickly be put into service at an Appleseed, be lent to someone at a local AQT shoot, and be used to practice at 25m (or even use in 25 & 50 yard CMP rifle competitions) - all with cheap .22LR ammunition.  Also, it will give you a valuable tool to use to train new shooters, without subjecting them to the often-intimidating recoil of a full-power main battle rifle.


Which 10/22 should I use to get started?  -- There are a lot of options: rifles, carbines, heavy-barrelled target rifles, even receivers that allow one to build a complete rifle with custom components.  One of the most-popular options for many adult shooters is a 22" barreled rifle from WalMart, available for just over $200.  Small-framed adults and children may prefer the slightly smaller 10/22 Carbine.  Any 10/22 is a good starting point for your Liberty Trainer.

Okay, I've got my rifle.  Now what? - The Ruger factory sights are not suited to fine adjustments.  Fortunately, Tech-Sights (http://www.tech-sights.com/) produces several adjustable aperture sights for the 10/22.  These sights allow simple adjustment for windage and elevation (windage adjustment requires the use of an AR-15 sight adjustment tool - also available from Tech-Sights). [For those of you who would like to be able to quickly and easily adjust windage on the Tech-Sight, DPMS offers the Rapidex knob, which replaces the standard, must-use-a-tool A1 windage drum (Part# UR-3981, $9). ]
On the 22 inch barrel rifle, each click of windage or elevation is .8 MOA. For most standard carbine barrels one click = 1 MOA (at least close enough for practical applications).


So why do I want Tech-Sights instead of some other sights? - You're free to add whatever type of aftermarket sights you like, BUT the sight picture the Tech-Sights give you is very similar to the sight picture of the Springield M1A and the AR-15 rifles.  Since these types of rifles are the ones many shooters use when shooting at full-distance, it just makes sense to use 10/22 sights that replicate the sights of their long-distance rifles.  Plus, they are easier to adjust than many other types of sights are.
Williams are an alternative aperture-type sight, but do not give a sight picture as similar to your main rifle's as the Tech-Sights do.

How do you take the original front sight off of the barrel? - One of our satisfied shooters says this much better than I can: "I laid the barrel on a piece of 2X4, put the punch on the left side of the sight down on the dovetail part of the front sight blade (not the base) and smacked it with a hammer two or three times.  On my 10/22 the dovetail in the front sight base was a lot larger than the new Tech front sight.  I had to use a center punch to raise up little dimples in the front sight base dovetail to keep the Tech sight from falling out every time I turned the barrel over...  remember to use Locktite on the screws as they will come loose."
The front sight is actually made to go in and be removed from one side. When installing sights, install from right to left.  When uninstalling(removing) sights, remove from left to right.


What other parts should I add to my Liberty Trainer? -

1) A sling is a tremendous aid to accurate shooting, often improving group size by 50% or more.  If your 10/22 has sling swivels already, you're ahead of the game.  If not, you need to add a pair.
Most Ruger factory sling swivels will not accommodate aftermarket sling swivels (the holes are a little too narrow).  If you want to add the same sling that you have on your long-distance rifle, you'll need to add a pair of 1¼ " sling swivels (like those available from Uncle Mike's) so that you can mount a US GI 1¼" web sling.
You may have to use a drill or Dremel tool to widen the sling swivel holes very slightly.  This should be the only time you'll use a power tool during this project.

2) As it comes from the factory, releasing the 10/22 bolt from the locked-back position is a 2-handed operation, and is especially inconvenient when you're firing from the prone position.  The good news is, an aftermarket automatic bolt release only casts about $11 and is easy to install.
The CST Auto Bolt Stop (http://www.cstmtech.com) requires the use of specially modified magazines (using non-modified mags in a CST-equipped rifle may potentially damage the mechanism).  Since the goal of this trainer is to get you out to the range (and not into the machine shop), you'll probably be happier with one of the devices that doesn't require you to modify your magazines.

3) The 10/22 magazine release is also difficult to manipulate.  Without a doubt, an extended magazine release (the most popular cost about $5-$10) makes magazine changes faster.  If your primary MBR is an M1A, the Bell and Carlson release is very similar in length to that of your MBR.

4) Many shooters report improved performance after installing target triggers in their 10/22 Trainers, and while this is not absolutely necessary, it does provide for improved accuracy due to lightening the trigger pull.



There are quite a few magazines available for the 10/22. Which magazines are the best? -- Butler Creek produces some well-regarded 10 round single-stack magazines which extend about 2 inches below the rifle, allowing a convenient grip for more-rapid magazine changes.  Their Steel Lips magazines have proven to be nearly as durable as Ruger's factory magazines.  If you're an M1A shooter, the Butler Creek 25-round magazines can be loaded with 20 rounds to simulate the M1A's 20 round mags.
A device that allows you to attach 2 or 4 factory 10/22 magazines by their bases is a available from http://www.elmfg.com/store/ruger1022.html#Anchor-45980.

Is there any special modifications that are recommended for my 'WalMart 10/22'? -- The only real difference between the standard receiver and the WalMart 22" version is that the WalMart receiver is painted both inside and out. This leads to rough operation and early fouling as the oil, powder, and rubbed off paint mix to form glop, (the technical term).  If you strip the paint from the inside, just the top part, where the bolt and bolt handle rub, and polish the area with very fine sandpaper, you'll find that the bolt is very much slicker to operate. 
The standard black receiver should be fine, as they don't paint the inside of those.

Any other tips on constructing my 10/22 Liberty Trainer? -
1) "I've done a couple of these and in both cases I went back to the OEM Ruger trigger return spring. I found that the lighter Volquartsen spring will occasionally just not quite reset the sear. use the Volquartsen hammer spring, but stick with the factory Ruger trigger return spring.  That's where mine is, with a decent 3-1/2 lb. trigger and 100% trigger reset reliability thus far."

2) "You might want to consider fully bedding the barrel instead of free floating it.  The 10/22 has a somewhat weak connection point between the barrel and the receiver.   Free floating reportedly can lead to some POA/ POI and warping issues.  On the other had, those who have firmly bedded it report exceptional accuracy gains.  I know this sounds anti-intuitive, but this gun seems to prefer bedding vs. floating."

I really don't know how to disassemble my rifle to install these parts - No problem.  There are some valuable resources available at http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/triggerruger1022.htm . As a bonus,
this link (http://www.heypete.com/pete/shooting/rugermag.html) shows you how to disassemble a factory magazine for cleaning.

I'd like an adjustable stock, so shooters of all sizes can use my rifle - Several shooters have recommended 2 adjustable stocks: the Christie Super Stock (http://www.1022central.com/) and the T6 Stock for Ruger 10/22 (http://www.tapco.com/catalog.aspx?id=293).

Now get out to the range!  And take some new shooters with you.



Disclaimer -- RWVA, its members, the Appleseed Program, and the author have no financial interest in any of the companies listed in this post.  Any product endorsement is purely the result of our own satisfaction as consumers.
Many thanks to the RWVA members who contributed to this information (including Atlas Shrug, fordtruck, Hollywood,  Junior Birdman, ken grant, lex, raf, et al).

[The Guy]

Good job!

[Nickle]

In case you haven't seen this yet:

On a HIGH note, I'm going to pick up 3 rifles tomorrow, generously donated by Frugal Squirrel's, AKA John's Gun Shop. John is a local in my area, and we know each other. He is 100% for the Appleseed program, and a decent dealer.

Also Larry at Tech Sights has generously donated 3 sets of sights, and I have them already.

So, the Northeast is on our way to having 3 10/22 trainers.

And, DO NOT BUY THE RAPIDEX KNOB yet. I can get them for you at HALF the cost mentioned by Grin. Watch for threads on the subject of Instructor purchases at FFL cost. That applies as well to some of you that are "movers and shakers", though not Instructors yet (Texans, that means YOU).

[Grin Reaper]

The Solution to the Ammo Shortage at Appleseeds orig. posted by fred on: May 5, 2007, 06:02:09 PM

There's always problems.

     And seems a current problem is the sudden high cost of good surplus ammo.

     What a few months back was 15 cents is now above 50 cents a round.

     That's a more than 300% increase.

     Ouch!

     If you come to an Appleseed, and you go thru 300 rds in two days - or 800 rounds in six days of Boot Camp - your ammo costs have shot up from $45 to over $150 at the weekend Appleseed - and from $120 to over $400 at a Boot Camp.

     That's gotta hurt.

      But there's an easy solution.

      It's called .22 rimfire.

     For most of us older guys, say ".22" and you only mean one thing - the lowly .22 rimfire cartridge, billions of which are fired every year in this country.

      I say 'lowly' because, being boys at heart, we all gravitate toward speed and power, so the .223 and other ".22s" of recent decades tend to grab the glory, at least among "the .22s".

      Yet if any of us can reach back far enough in our memories, we're likely to find the .22 lurking way back in the past as the cartridge on which we cut our teeth as marksmen.

      If you soak in those memories a bit, it all starts to come back.

      The importance with which you approached the clerk in the country store and asked for "a box of .22s."

     And not just "a box of .22s" - no sir - it was a box of "longs" or "long rifles" or - if you were "poor" that day, a box of "shorts". Yep, even back then power was an aphrodisiac, and, if you had the 72 cents, you went for the big ones - the Long Rifles (and if you were really flush, you bought the "Long Rifle Hollow Points" and paid the 80 cents - this country is so rich today that nearly all .22s now sold are "LR" so the glory attached to those two words has probably faded considerably with the younger set.)

     If you were short in the coin department, if the most loose change you had was a couple of quarters (made of silver, too!) you were stuck with "shorts".

     Bottom line, when you opened the box, and started dropping them down the mag tube, don't know that, excitement-wise, it made much difference.

      It's no secret the power and impact that cartridge has on marksmanship.

      In that field, the .22 rimfire packs muscle that dwarfs 7.62 X 39, for example. Real Marksmanship Muscle.

      Some of the most accomplished marksmen are the smallbore shooters.

     It's an old truth, often told: smallbore shooters make great highpower rifle shooters - but the reverse is not automatically true.

     A center-fire marksman has to work on his skills when he starts to shoot smallbore, because you have to be sharper than with centerfire.

     Which means .22 rimfire is a heck of a maker of rifle-shooting skills.

     And no slouch in the Liberty department, either.

     Back in 1940, one .22 champion shooter in England explored the possibility of using .22 rimfires on the invading Hun.

     He made up dummy targets - wood 'dressed' in a wool uniform, leather cartridge belt, etc - just like an invading Nazi would wear - and found out that, at 300 yards, the 'lowly' .22 would penetrate 'uniform' and 'gear' to lodge an inch or more into the wood.

     He concluded the basic .22 cartridge would make nasty wounds.

     He concluded, based on his research, that .22 rifles were a viable option in facing the Hun.

     Before you laugh, imagine being on the receiving end.

     Without warning, sizeable lead pellets penetrate an inch or more into your body.

     You can't hear them coming. There's no muzzle report - certainly, not amid vehicular or battlefield noise - to give away the location of the shooter.

     They may not kill you, but you will be something the military says is even more valuable: a casualty. Requiring 2-4 men to drag you to a first-aid station, then convalescence, etc.

     There's an article in one of the gun magazines way back in the days when there was a flap over civil defense and bomb shelters - say, sometime in the 1950s or early 60s.

     It was a story about a man who appeared at his local gun shop once a month, and bought a .22 single-shot and a brick of .22s. (Back then, a twenty would get you both!)

     When finally asked why he was buying all those rifles, he responded that, when the time came, the rifles were for his neighbors, and he expected them to use 'em - to get a battle rifle!

      Shades of the generations of riflemen who have guarded this country's liberty and heritage for so long!

      Now we are in a time of shortages of cheap surplus ammo.

     Those of you who had the opportunity to 'buy it cheap and stack it deep' acted like the grasshoppers that most Americans are and instead of planning for the winter, you danced and sang and partied...

     But even those with a few cases stacked away are reluctant to freely spend that now 50-cent a round ammo.

     But .22 is still plentiful and cheap.

     So herewith, we draft that cartridge back into the Cause, once more.

     Yes sir, march onto the 'battlefield of liberty" - the 25-meter marksmanship training range - with the goal of becoming riflemen, of becoming one with the tradition.

     It's actually already happening.

     At Appleseeds, we already see nearly half the guys showing up with .22 rimfire rifles.

     In fact, at the recent New York Appleseed, BOTH Riflemen who qualified were firing .22s (one shot a 237!).

     Guess you could say that's the beauty of Appleseed. That at 25m you can shift from centerfire to rimfire and the only difference you'll notice, marksmanship-wise, is that your ammo dollar still buys a dollar's worth of ammo.

      There's really not much difference, otherwise.

      Your shoulder is no sorer.

     You still have to 'ride the bull' of the Six Steps of Firing a Shot.

     NPOA is still mandatory.

     Position checkpoints? Absolutely the same, and absolutely as important.

     Plus, if you can master the lowly .22, you can master the big center fire.

     No problemo...

     Now, to stock up of some of that .22, before IT gets scarce!

     At less than 20 bucks per thousand, it's a deal - and a steal!

     And you never know when you'll have to go 'hunting the Hun' - huh?

     Maybe the title for a future column: "Stalking the Hun with pipe and .22..."

      Or, "what will happen if we let this country go down the same road as England", right?

     Meantime, .22 offers marksmanship training opportunities in your back yard and basement.

     With CB caps, you can be near as quiet as an air rifle.

     Geez, I starting to not even miss centerfire!

     So yes, the lowly .22 can be a lifesaver - if it allows you to acquire the marksmanship skills you need.

     And, as our English guy discovered (maybe to his surprise, and to the snorts of you machos out there), it may even have utility as a defender of Liberty, if and when it ever comes to that.

     Dis this cartridge at your peril.

     And buy some before everyone else finds out about it, and shortages begin to pop up...

     Got some .22 already?

     Then come to an Appleseed!

     Bring your centerfire for Sunday, when we often switch to longer ranges, so you can see for yourself that what works at 25, works for 200 - or 300 - or 400.

    And by using .22 for 90+% of your training on the AQT, your costs to attend an Appleseed actually go down, not up.

     Sweet deal.

     And the same goes for the Boot Camp.

     By firing 2/3s of your shots with .22 rimfire - easily done - you ammo costs stay the same as when surplus ammo was cheap, but you get to shoot over 200 rounds of centerfire to polish off your training.

     Sweet deal!

     So, in the spirit of Appleseed - adapt, improvise, overcome - and persevere - turn the current ammo shortage in your favor - and save money even more than before the shortage cropped up!

     SWEET DEAL!

     "Appleseed. It's a beautiful thing."



Ken grant --

A .22 is really harder to shoot than a center fire because of barrel time. The longer barrel time can multiply any movement after the shot is fired.
This is where follow through shows up and if you relax as soon as you pull the trigger, the shot will be off the POA.

Spartacus2002 --

I strongly recommend it.  The fundamentals of marksmanship are the exact same with such a 10/22 as with any rifle.

M1A4ME --

One  of the guys at the Feb. RBC shot a .22 all week.  He was able to get bullets on paper out to 300 yds. and they were knocking down pop ups at 200 yds. with it (10/22 with a scope).  A .22 is a great way to learn and to stay tuned up.

KentuckyRifle --

This is a great post. I admit I considered bringing a .22 to the Carrollton Appleseed and then decided against it because I was afraid it wouldnt be perceived a "manly enough." Also reminded me that I need to stock up on more .22 and a good .22 bolt action for shooting those quiet low power cartridges

Nickle --

You will save so much money with a .22, that you'll be able to shoot more, and maintain your skill level. Raf said his 10/22 has already paid for itself in saved cost.
At the current price for 1000 rounds of decent 7.62 NATO ammo, you could afford to buy a .22, tweak it a little, add a decent sling and swivels, and buy a mos=dest stash of ammo for it.
And for those that think a .22 has limited use in the field, think again. It's excellent for taking game for dinner.

Damon --

I've gotten into the .22 spirit myself. I spent the winter combing the local gun shows for beat-up older 10/22's. a few sets of Tech-Sights and GI slings later, and I had these little gems ready.  They all have skateboard tape on the butts, quick-release sling swivels and are numbered for easy sight-in reference. I'm still putting together a full set of mags and sight adjustment tool for each.
I loaned six of them out at the Carrollton, KY Appleseed. The only catch, they had to supply their own ammo.

BigDaddy -- "Lowly" .22 rimfire  Sparks Breakthrough in Homeland Security and National Defense

Dateline:  USA

Recognizing the desperate need of American citizens to reclaim the rifleman heritage of their forefathers, grass roots organizations have rediscovered the .22 rimfire as a means to cost-effectively train rifleman.
Spearheaded by volunteer members of the Revolutionary War Veterans Association (RWVA), RWVA instructors have begun to modify Ruger 10/22 rifles to be used as loaners to train students in the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship. 
An RWVA instructor states:  "With the recent increase in the cost of centerfire ammunition, the use of Tech-Sights to create .22LR caliber, M1A-like "training rifles" has made marksmanship practice affordable again."
The .22 rimfire is a great training round to be sure, but what about it's actual use in combat.  Founding  RWVA instructor Fred comments that,
"...  .22 rimfire is a heck of a maker of rifle-shooting skills.  And no slouch in the Liberty department, either.  Back in 1940, one .22 champion shooter in England explored the possibility of using .22 rimfires on the invading Hun. He made up dummy targets - wood 'dressed' in a wool uniform, leather cartridge belt, etc - just like an invading Nazi would wear - and found out that, at 300 yards, the 'lowly' .22 would penetrate 'uniform' and 'gear' to lodge an inch or more into the wood.".
While such terminal performance is dwarfed in comparison to other military calibers, the utility of the round on the modern 5GW battlefield cannot be overemphasized. 
Such utility is not lost on our current enemy who have used the round to great effect.  Reports from the sand box indicate, head, face and neck shots with  .22's.  Usually one shot under 100yds. from some jihadist snipers (maybe Chechen) The .22 report signature blends in with urban soundscape, and is very difficult to trace acoustically.
The news of the renewed interest in the .22 rimfire for training rifleman
was disseminated nationwide within hours today.  Using the internet, volunteer members of the RWVA, shared specs. and supplier sources for the 10/22 modifications.  Such cooperative effort is an element of the GWOT.

[Nickle]

Since this should get sticky'd, I'll post a link:

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=84.0

This is to the Notheast Region RWVA Trainer rifles. Any modifications will be listed there. I've found some short cuts that can be easily done, like HOW to modify the bolt release and save that $11. Also, how to do a trigger yourself. Yes, not for the novice gunsmith, but, can be done by a reasonable person.

Multiply the savings by 4, and you see where it pays off to do some work.

Here's some links to doing the trigger. If it works, it will get posted in the above thread.

http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/triggerruger1022.htm

http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/triggerruger1022(two).htm

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122386&highlight=cletus+hungwell

[1911Ron]

I just got done fixing up my 10/22 Liberty training rifle (that does sound good ) and now looking towards doing up either a loaner or one for a give away to a junior shooter. How can i get one donated(i have a good source) do i need an offical letter head or what?

I really like this idea and i am seeing a tremendous amount of work being done all for the program

[Oohrah]

   Even in the Marine Corps in the 50s, the .22 was used for training
both for rifle, and pistol.   At this time, there was a lot of ammo at
reasonable prices.   Before this time, a lots of 22 ammo expended,
a few boxes of shotgun, with a box of centerfire lasting a season or
two.  Probably all those expended 22s most likely was reason for one
shot kills on big game.   It surely didn't hurt to have the basics when
entering the service.   I've noticed the young shooters at the Appleseeds
become pretty proficient by the second day.   I don't know if maybe
it can be the lack of noise and recoil.   I know a family of four that
attended, it surely was easier on Dad's pocket book.    Good job Nickle!
I don't suppose that there is a program for youth shooters through the
CMP.   I seem to recall the DCM gave rifles and ammo to sponsered clubs
that had youth shooters.

[Farmritch]

I've got an Enfield trainer that dates back, and know 22's have been a part of most military training for a very long time 
I'll admit when I was having some flintch/buck/jerk I broke out my old enfield trainer and had it under control in less than 10 rounds , not to mention having a bunch o fun too!!


farmritch

[Nickle]

Details on how to do it should be in the link I posted above, that is in this forum.

If you want to know HOW to get donations, feel free to PM me. I'll be glad to share how I did it.

I will say right now, that Ruger will NOT donate rifles. They WILL sell them to us at just under wholesale, probably a little more than they charge distributors.

If you want to get a rifle (or better rifles) donated, contact your local shops. They are far more likely to donate to a good cause than a big company.

[raf]

I posted this: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=11&t=222026 on the
rimfire forum of Arfcom.  In the eight days elapsed, it's had over 300 views, so maybe this little seed will have a few sprouts.  Gave Appleseed a bit of a plug, natch.

[Muddogg]

Since I will probably be doing a lot of rimfire and shotgun work in my shop when I eventually set it up(I'll also work on centerfire rifles, but it's not as big as the others on the IBX of NC) I believe I will do a 10/22 for my 4th semester project in about 4-5 months. It will probably have the entire LTR setup, but with a few added bonuses such as:

-Weighted Stock- I want to get the same feel and balance of an MBR, not sure which yet. But I excel with crafting stocks, so it shouldn't be too hard.

-Military Style stock- while a handguard might be out of the question(but not impossible), I should be able to duplicate to "feel" of a military stock, perhaps full length with a nice linseed oil finish.

Perhaps a little cosmetic work such as a faux gas tube like on the Garand or M14(could add the right amount of weight in the front) and if they make them, I'd like to get a steel receiver(not stainless) so I can parkerize it.

Of course, I could be biting off more than I can chew, but it sounds like a nice challenge to me!

If anyone has any comments or suggestions to add, they would be appreciated! You can PM me or post here what type of MBR you would like to see done and I'll see which is the most favored.

[anelon]

Well now, here's the question ... has anybody contacted Ruger about doing a factory LTR? Seems a good time.

[Oohrah]

Great thought, but I wonder how big business will
receive it

[Nickle]

Yup, anelon, and I did it personally, and directly to the Rifle Sales Manager herself, over the phone.

They're not interested, and will only get interested if a Distributor asks for them, and then the numbers would have to be high enough to warrant it.

Now the good news.

Want one in kit form?

All you have to do is the parts replacement yourself, or get a local gunsmith to do it.

You provide the 10/22, and get the parts from deals right here at RWVA. The package is being worked out as we speak, believe it or not.

See, I happen to "be in the business", my father is an FFL and Ammo Manufacturer, and yes, I'm looking into a package. Just going to take a little while to put it all together.

I suggest right here and now that anybody interested look into getting your 10/22 right now, and get in on the  Group Buy that Grin Reaper is putting on.

When I get my end done, I will come up with a package. Watch the Northeast Trainer thread, as that is me doing those, and what I'm doing is there. I'll try to update this thread when I get done.

[raf]

Found this site: http://www.guerrillagunsmith.com/1022.htm, which has very nice, detailed photos and text concerning assy/dis-assy of 10-22.  VERY useful if printed out and available during the first couple of dis-assemblies.   

[dwarven1]

Wow... wish I'd found that site this weekend when I detail stripped my 10/22 to give it the cleaning of it's life to try and cure it's almost constant misfires. That would have helped reassembling the trigger group! (I did find another site, but this one is excellent.)

Thanks for posting it, raf! You can be sure that I'm going to be bookmarking it!

[Old Dog]

I don't detail strip much of anything anymore.  I take the metal out of the stock (remove the plastic parts as well) and "blow" the crud out with a can of carb. cleaner (brake cleaner seems to work well also).  Once the crud stops flowing out I set the assembly aside to dry while cleaning the barrel.  When dry (the carb. cleaner not only removes the dirt/powder residue/crud but also every last drop of lubricant) I spray the assembly with Rem-Oil for rust preventive purposes and lubrication, wipe it down with an oily rag to get the excess oil off it and reassemble the rifle.  Seems to work fine for me.

[dwarven1]

I've been using GunScrubber but I do not like what it does to the finish of the gun.  Besides, it's pretty tough to get at the trigger assembly and the firing pin on the 10/22 without ripping the gun apart.

[ken grant]

   DO NOT   use Brake Cleaner on a Wally Word Special 10//22.
It will mess up the finish on your receiver both inside and out.
Inside may be O.K. but not the outside.

Don't ask me how I know

[raf]

I don't detail strip much of anything anymore.  I take the metal out of the stock (remove the plastic parts as well) and "blow" the crud out with a can of carb. cleaner (brake cleaner seems to work well also).  Once the crud stops flowing out I set the assembly aside to dry while cleaning the barrel.  When dry (the carb. cleaner not only removes the dirt/powder residue/crud but also every last drop of lubricant) I spray the assembly with Rem-Oil for rust preventive purposes and lubrication, wipe it down with an oily rag to get the excess oil off it and reassemble the rifle.  Seems to work fine for me.

I sort of agree.  I detail strip the new or at least new-to-me 10-22 upon receipt, remove all dirt and lube, and run it that way for about a brick.  Then, I detail strip again, and file/hone/stone/sand any rough spots on either the reciprocating parts or the stationary components.  Clean again, this time (and subsequently, of course) lubing, and re-assemble.  Once this detail stripping is done twice, and things smoothed up, going to the complete strip-down level should be a rare thing.  On my stainless 10-22, I just flood the bore and chamber with carb cleaner, wait for it to mostly drip down and out of the lowered muzzle, and then run a boreSnake through it a couple of times.  I spray a little carb cleaner on a Q-tip, and clean the face of the bolt.  Dab a little CLP here and there and you're good to go.  BTW, a source of compressed air is a nice thing to have, even if it is a steel bottle that is filled up at your nearby gas station.  The canned stuff is way too expensive to warrant use on firearms, but is very clean and best for computer use..

[BBA]

Has anyone considered offering a service to build up a LTR for those less knowledgable?  Me for instance?  I am completely new to guns in general, in fact I only just bought my first ever gun (a shotgun), and have no experience do anything with them. 

I have been reading about RWVA & Appleseeds for some time now, and am quite keen on it.  I really want to get a rifle and start learning to be a rifleman, and this LTR concept seems like it would be the way to start.  Unfortunately, I would be worried to start modifying guns on my own and I don't know any local gunsmiths to know who to trust.  So, is there anyone who would offer the service of assembling "spec" LTR for those of us complete newbs without the ability/knowledge/confidence?

[Nickle]

It has been considered by competent gun repair folks.

It is pretty much impractical to do, as the shipping is a pain. The transfer legalities and fees are another issue. Some FFL's charge for doing a transfer, and some of them aren't too cheap.

But, your local gunsmith could probably help you out, and won't cost you too awful much.

Dumb question, but pertinent. Which state are you in?

[BBA]

Yeah, I hadn't thought about the transfer issues.  Could it be done where the buyer actually purchases the firearm and then sends it for the work, perhaps even if the rifle goes directly to the modifier?  Would FFL's be required for that instance?

I'm in Michigan, to be specific Metro-Detroit area, but I travel all over southern Michigan & Toledo Ohio area, so could make arrangements anywhere in that area.

[Nickle]

Yeah, I hadn't thought about the transfer issues.  Could it be done where the buyer actually purchases the firearm and then sends it for the work, perhaps even if the rifle goes directly to the modifier?  Would FFL's be required for that instance?

I'm in Michigan, to be specific Metro-Detroit area, but I travel all over southern Michigan & Toledo Ohio area, so could make arrangements anywhere in that area.

Well, are you knowledgeable enough to remove the trigger group? All you have to do is remove the barreled receiver from the stock, then take 2 pins out to drop the trigger group. You could send out just the trigger. Tech Sights are easy to install, and sling swivel studs aren't too hard, either. The rest of the modifications would all be in the trigger assembly.

[BBA]

Well, are you knowledgeable enough to remove the trigger group? All you have to do is remove the barreled receiver
from the stock, then take 2 pins out to drop the trigger group. You could send out just the trigger. Tech Sights are easy to install, and sling swivel studs aren't too hard, either. The rest of the modifications would all be in the trigger assembly.

While "knowledgable" isn't the word, based on reviewing the instructions linked in the OP I believe I could get to that point.

So the bolt stop modification and magazine release modification are in the trigger assembly?  What about the receiver paint stripping & barrel bedding?

[ken grant]

 I would suggest that you get a Wally World Special,put on a sling,do the bolt stop and mag release(either bought or homemade) and forget about paint stripping or bedding for now.
Learn to shoot the rifle and you may find that you don't have to do anything more to it. This was the case on mine and it both works great and shoots great.

Oops,forgot to mention I did install Tech Sights.

[Old Dog]

+1 on Ken's post.  My used 10/22 has the tech sights, a 1" plastic stock extender (I'm 6' 3" tall) on the butt stock, sling swivels to allow me to use a GI web sling and all the rest of it is Ruger factory stock.  I haven't really shot it much but with Rem. and Fed. .22 ammo it shoots 5/8" 5 shot groups at 25 yds. from the prone position.  You don't have to have all the gizmos to learn to find your NPOA and put the 6 steps to firing the shot to work for you.  Once you get the basics down and can use the little extra benefits of the mods and you feel the benefit is worth the money have at it.  Spending the money now may be getting ahead of the curve (you paid for it now but won't really see the benefit till later).  Besides, once you get good with the mostly stock rifle you'll get so much more enjoyment out of it when you go to the range and outshoot the guys with the high dollar target rifles.  It's a good feeling, I remember it.

[Nickle]

So the bolt stop modification and magazine release modification are in the trigger assembly?  What about the receiver paint stripping & barrel bedding?

Both modifications are in the trigger group.

Stripping paint and bedding aren't really needed. I've seen a 245 shot with a minimally modified 10/22 (scope, trigger and bolt release). Hard to beat that.

[raf]

FWIW, Natchez Shooter's Supply has CCI Blazer .22RF ammo on sale at $1.19/box50, vs. usual $2.65. Shipping and hazmat charges, of course. 100 boxes= 1 case, and so shipped if so ordered.  If your .22 likes it (all mine do), now might be a good time to stock up.  No commercial interest.

Liinky:http://www.natchezss.com/ammo.cfm?contentID=productDetail&ammoGroup=4&brand=CC&prodID=CC0021

[TheEditor]

Grin Reaper,

I'd like to put your main post summarizing the 10/22 Liberty Training Rifle in this month's GunNews as an article.  Do you or anyone with one completed have a picture or two of the rifles, either complete or being worked on? 

If they don't exist, can someone with one of the completed rifles get me some?  Maybe a side by side of an unmodified one, along with a modified one showing the sights, a sling, the extended mag release if visible. 

Thanks,

JN