10/22 Liberty Training Rifles -- Good for Appleseed AND for your budget!

[VaWolf]

I have finished reading all 20+ pages of this thread and 20+ pages of the "optics for old eyes thread" and now my old eyes are TIRED. I was looking to see if anyone has tried out the Bushnell Sportsman 3x9x32 AO .22 scope. The only thing I saw that was close was the BSA. I put a Bushnell on my son's Marlin and I am very impressed so far. I have Techsights on order but if they don't work out I will be getting another Bushnell.   Tommy

[Oohrah]

I have used several of these lower end Bushnell and BSAs and each
rifle they are on (.22) have always been reliable and elevation and
windage operate as they should.   Remember to make sure scope
base and scope rings are tight.

[Snake45]

I was looking to see if anyone has tried out the Bushnell Sportsman 3x9x32 AO .22 scope.

Haven't used that one but I have the Simmons 22MAG of exactly the same specs on a CZ 452 and I couldn't like it more. Perfect for all-around .22 use!

[Grin Reaper]

The LTR idea is catching on elsewhere: http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24586 -- a Zombie Hunter's Training Rifle!

He did a pretty good job of setting one up and explaining its benefits, and even changed a few minds of some doubters.

[ax238]

And now Perhaps the Appleseed link where they can practise their .22 Zombie Hunting in force?  Come to an Appleseed, kill Red Coat Zombies.  It has a ring to it.

[Snake45]

Who's paying for zombie targets? This is an election year. Don't you guys get a daily newspaper? 

[Fitz]

Woo Hoo...Just finished the hard part of setting up our LTRs. Installed Tech Sights, new mag release and a Volquartsen bolt release and hammer kit for each of our 10/22s. All I have left is to install is the swivels for our slings and we are set. Now all we need is the snow to stop and the temps to moderate so we can get out in the back yard to practice!

Love the Tech Sights and bolt release. This will make the rifles so much easier to shoot and operate. Highly recommended.

Fitz

[Snake45]

Here's a guy turned his 10/22 into an M1 carbine clone/LTR. The Tech Sights are ugly on it, but otherwise he did a darn nice job with the project. It actually looks a lot better than it sounds. I think I'm gonna do one of these next, except I'm gonna use real M1 carbine sights on mine.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205809

[Junior Birdman]

  Just keep in mind that (in my Appleseed experience, as well as with my personal M1) the M1 carbine has abismal sling qualities. It truly is a carry strap. You can only get a hasty sling out of it and then it is very hard to get adjusted. I've found that in standing position, the butt is too shallow to get a good cheek weld. (If you raise the stock to the cheek, it is no longer on the shoulder, and the sling cuts into my throat since it comes from the side of the stock, not the bottom of it)
   Other stocks are out there and seem to make better Appleseed platforms, (Although minus the cool factor).  I did rig a decent sling for the thing, and I'm working on a forward sling stud (from a 10/22 with a band) that will go on the band screw with a nut which will give a good, adjustable, GI sling for loop or hasty applications. More on that later.  JB

[Old Dog]

On the other hand (in spite of the effort and the expense of such a project), a slightly modified unit such as you suggest might be a neat little LTR for the children or the wife due to different physical makeup.  I'm not a carbine fan myself but for folks who are that rifle would be the cat's meow for a trainer substitute.

I've wondered about trying to something similar with and M1 Garand stock and some additional accesories to make it look more like an M1 or M1A.

Just prepare yourself for Fred to ask why you aren't putting all that time and effort into doing Appleseeds.

[Snake45]

I've wondered about trying to something similar with and M1 Garand stock and some additional accesories to make it look more like an M1 or M1A.

Some good discussion on just such a project here:

http://www.m-14forum.com/upload/showthread.php?t=40714

[dwarven1]

  Just keep in mind that (in my Appleseed experience, as well as with my personal M1) the M1 carbine has abismal sling qualities. It truly is a carry strap. You can only get a hasty sling out of it and then it is very hard to get adjusted. I've found that in standing position, the butt is too shallow to get a good cheek weld. (If you raise the stock to the cheek, it is no longer on the shoulder, and the sling cuts into my throat since it comes from the side of the stock, not the bottom of it)

JB, not everyone is as tall as you are - my M1 fits me VERY nicely, thank you. As for my 10/22... well... I have a spare (eBay) stock that I'm planning on cutting down about 1/2" at a time to try and find a length of pull that fits me better.

[Wade]

I never thought that I would be excited about a humble .22 but I am , I am getting a 10/22 for my birthday can't hardly wait lots of trigger time I can aford (when I get to stop driveing ).

Wade

[Nickle]

  Just keep in mind that (in my Appleseed experience, as well as with my personal M1) the M1 carbine has abismal sling qualities. It truly is a carry strap. You can only get a hasty sling out of it and then it is very hard to get adjusted. I've found that in standing position, the butt is too shallow to get a good cheek weld. (If you raise the stock to the cheek, it is no longer on the shoulder, and the sling cuts into my throat since it comes from the side of the stock, not the bottom of it)

JB, not everyone is as tall as you are - my M1 fits me VERY nicely, thank you. As for my 10/22... well... I have a spare (eBay) stock that I'm planning on cutting down about 1/2" at a time to try and find a length of pull that fits me better.

Ross, add sling swivel studs to that cut down stock, and you can use a better sling than the Carbine sling.

[dwarven1]

  Just keep in mind that (in my Appleseed experience, as well as with my personal M1) the M1 carbine has abismal sling qualities. It truly is a carry strap. You can only get a hasty sling out of it and then it is very hard to get adjusted. I've found that in standing position, the butt is too shallow to get a good cheek weld. (If you raise the stock to the cheek, it is no longer on the shoulder, and the sling cuts into my throat since it comes from the side of the stock, not the bottom of it)

JB, not everyone is as tall as you are - my M1 fits me VERY nicely, thank you. As for my 10/22... well... I have a spare (eBay) stock that I'm planning on cutting down about 1/2" at a time to try and find a length of pull that fits me better.

Ross, add sling swivel studs to that cut down stock, and you can use a better sling than the Carbine sling.

?? Roger, I'm cutting down a 10/22 - the M1 fits me fine the way it is. Adding sling swivel studs to the Carbine so I can use a different sling, now, isn't a bad idea.

[Nickle]

Yeah, just don't butcher the stock on your Carbine, wait until you get another one, and butcher the worse of the two. Remember the M1 Carbine has collector value, even a Plainfield has some collector value.

[Snake45]

The Carbine band can be easily modified to take a regular sling swivel. Here's another of my LTRs. The 10/22 in the middle, I modified the factory stock to take an old GI carbine front band. This band was missing its sling swivel so I just added one via the takedown screw. Now it works just like any other sling swivel.

[Francis Marion]

My 10/22 is having fairly consistent feeding problems, regardless of the mag used.  Were it not for that issue, it would be a rifle anyone could make Rifleman with.  Typically what appears to happen (though I can't swear this is actually what is happening) is some kind of double feed.  What I typically find in there is a round in the chamber that is unfired and a second one trying to feed which jams up the works.  Anyone experience this or have a fix idea?

Why don't folks post the problems their LTRs have, and the fixes tried and their results, so we can improve LTR reliability.  I'm the second guy here who had reliability trouble with a brand new 10-22. 
We can generate a troubleshooting guide to resolve the most popular issues. 

I have the same double feed trouble, with a new 10/22 having had fewer than 500 rounds fired through it. 

1)  Double feeds: happens to me with either of two brand new 10shot factory mags used, frequency once in 20 rounds.  Happens with the stock steel receiver/bolt stop pin, and with a hard plastic/polycarbonate buffer pin (home made buffer).  Haven't tried lower durometer buffers or aftermarket buffers. 
Haven't tried adjusting mag spring tension yet.

2)  Failure to eject spent casing: happens once in 40 shots.  Have stock ejector and stock extractor & bolt assembly.

What problems do people have, and what solutions are known to work?

[Snake45]

First solution to ANY 10/22 functioning problem is to switch ammo.

The Federal Walmart Bulk is USUALLY extremely good-functioning ammo--MOST lots of it. Every now and then a bad lot gets through that's junk, but having shot it in over 30 different kinds of rifles and pistols, I can tell you this stuff is really reliable. Not that accurate, but really reliable.

CCI MiniMags are also extremely reliable and work in almost anything. If your gun won't run on at least one of those two, you've prolly got a gun problem.

Stovepiping or weak ejection, as well as the obvious failure to extract, in a 10/22 is almost always a function of the factory extractor. Either replace it with a VQ or other quality aftermarket extractor, or take the factory extractor out, file more of an undercut angle on the "hook," and reinstall it (if you're working on the cheap). Either fix will usually eliminate stovepiping problems.

[Politenessman]

I've had a number of issues with my 10/22 in the past, and every time the culprit was the ammo.
I was using that cheap stuff from Wal-Mart - not the Federal, it was something else and my memory fails me (box of 550; Remington?). I switched to Remington yellow jackets and lo and behold, fewer problems, but every now and then I'll have a problem.

I finally switched to the CCI mini Mags, Velocitors and Stingers, and no more problems.

[Clod Stomper]

I'm happy to say that I spent a good amount of time on MLK day sighting in 2 LTRs and an M1A for the upcoming Appleseed in Kingsport, TN. 

As for my own 10-22 LTR, I modified the bolt release to the automatic style.  I couldn't seem to get it to work even after grinding what seemed to be an excessive amount of metal.  I finally discovered that it was binding on the plastic extended magazine release.  About 15 seconds worth of Dremel grinding on the mag release and it worked perfectly.

Moral of the story:  The problem may not be obvious, take your time and figure out what EXACTLY is happening.

Will

[dwarven1]

Why don't folks post the problems their LTRs have, and the fixes tried and their results, so we can improve LTR reliability.  I'm the second guy here who had reliability trouble with a brand new 10-22. 
We can generate a troubleshooting guide to resolve the most popular issues.

I'm of two minds on this. My first thought was "Because we're NOT a gun board, we're an APPLESEED board - and there are approximately 600,000 10/22 nuts over on www.rimfirecentral.com, and if they haven't seen the problem - AND know how to fix it! - it's not worth trying to fix at all.

OTOH, my second thought was "Well, we DID come up with the idea of the LTR here, so maybe a "Trick my LTR" thread might not be out of line.

So... I guess I'll stay out of this as I can't make up my mind about it.

I've had a number of issues with my 10/22 in the past, and every time the culprit was the ammo.
I was using that cheap stuff from Wal-Mart - not the Federal, it was something else and my memory fails me (box of 550; Remington?).

The Remington bulk stuff had the bullet design changed a few years back; the hole in the hollowpoint was enlarged and the bullet shape itself was changed. I know because what had been a reliable round in my Ruger Mark 1 pistol suddenly turned it into a jammomatic. So my advice would have been what you did - try other brands. FWIW, my 10/22 doesn't have any feed problems with the Federal bulk stuff from WallyWorld.

[dwarven1]

Why don't folks post the problems their LTRs have, and the fixes tried and their results, so we can improve LTR reliability.  I'm the second guy here who had reliability trouble with a brand new 10-22. 
We can generate a troubleshooting guide to resolve the most popular issues.

I'm of two minds on this. My first thought was "Because we're NOT a gun board, we're an APPLESEED board - and there are approximately 600,000 10/22 nuts over on www.rimfirecentral.com, and if they haven't seen the problem - AND know how to fix it! - it's not worth trying to fix at all.

OTOH, my second thought was "Well, we DID come up with the idea of the LTR here, so maybe a "Trick my LTR" thread might not be out of line.

So... I guess I'll stay out of this as I can't make up my mind about it.

I've had a number of issues with my 10/22 in the past, and every time the culprit was the ammo.
I was using that cheap stuff from Wal-Mart - not the Federal, it was something else and my memory fails me (box of 550; Remington?).

The Remington bulk stuff had the bullet design changed a few years back; the hole in the hollowpoint was enlarged and the bullet shape itself was changed. I know because what had been a reliable round in my Ruger Mark 1 pistol suddenly turned it into a jammomatic. (I compared some of the older stuff side by each with the current fodder, which is how I know the exact differences) So my advice would have been what you did - try other brands. FWIW, my 10/22 doesn't have any feed problems with the Federal bulk stuff from WallyWorld.

[bratch]

I ordered all my parts yesterday and will pick up the rifle on Sunday.  Definatley looking forward to building my LTR and attending my first Appleseed.

[socalserf]

Welcome Bratch,
You are going to love the Appleseed program, and the LTR is the perfect fit for a trainer!
Good times comming your way.
Where will you be attending your first shoot?

[Oohrah]

With three different versions of the 10/22 functioning has never been
a problem.   They eat every brand and type ammo that it is fed.  The
last purchased was about 8 years back.   The three are listed by age
a sporter with the checkered walnut stock, target, and the last a stand-
rifle

[bratch]

I'll be attending the ones in OK.

My Midway order arrived now waiting on the rifle and Tech-sights.

[Redwolf]

Ok? Need thoughts or ideas on the 10/22 rifle or carbine.  Is the difference in accuracy noticeable.

[Old Dog]

Accuracy won't be affected by 4 inches of barrel.  The velocity will be a little lower for the shorter barrel but won't be a factor at 25 meters.

My short barreled (carbine) 10/22 will shoot 5/8" groups at 25 meters with the sling and tech sights with Remington Golden Bullets.

[Grin Reaper]

Agreed.  Barrel length might become a factor for a .22 at 100yds, but not at 25.