10/22 Liberty Training Rifles -- Good for Appleseed AND for your budget!

[Snake45]

Does anybody bother with the buffer gizzies?  If needed at all, is one brand or type better than the others?  I've used them with M1911 pistols, but nothing else.

It's not really needed--if it were, Ruger would make them standard equipment on 10/22.

All it does is eliminate the metal-on-metal "clack" sound/feel at the end of the bolt travel that some rimfire shooters find annoying. To any regular M14 shooter, the recoil of ANY kind of 10/22 is pretty much beneath notice in the first place.

Also, there have been reports of 10/22 receivers cracking at that pin hole after many, many thousands of rounds of hot loads. The buffer should eliminate the possibility of such damage.

I have a WeaponKraft buffer in one of my 10/22s. It's nice but I don't consider it a MUST-have item.

[rdhood]

Questions for anybody:

What's the status on Tech Sights?  Is there another group buy planned, and when might that happen?  If applicable, what do we expect the price to be?

I believe that there is always a group buy going on... 10 at a time. As soon as 10 sign up, the buy goes and the next buy starts.

Does anybody bother with the buffer gizzies?  If needed at all, is one brand or type better than the others? 

It's cheap, and the people over at rimfirecentral seem to like them. One brand does not seem to be better than another.  I installed one. It takes about 2 minutes (to get the file apart, install it, put rifle back together).

[Grin Reaper]

I believe that there is always a group buy going on... 10 at a time. As soon as 10 sign up, the buy goes and the next buy starts.

Correct!
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=182.msg1177#msg1177

[wtr100]

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/clearance_TAPCO_10_22_T6_Collapsible_Stock_Set.html

[raf]

Questions for anybody:

What's the status on Tech Sights?  Is there another group buy planned, and when might that happen?  If applicable, what do we expect the price to be?

Has anybody used the XS ghost ring rear/stripe up the center, square-post front?  How'd ya like it?  MidwayUSA has those for 10/22 for about $75 + S&H.

Does anybody bother with the buffer gizzies?  If needed at all, is one brand or type better than the others?  I've used them with M1911 pistols, but nothing else.

Thanks, as you can see, I'm getting antsy for my Winter 2008 project gun.

The buffer hurts nothing, is inexpensive, and quiets the action.  The repeated slamming of the bolt against the OEM metallic pin can elongate the pin's holes over a looooooooong time.  Meanwhile, there is that annoying noise/cheek transmitted sound.  I suspect Ruger does not fit them initially because the metal pin is fail-safe, and the buffer should be replaced every so often.  Go to rimfirecentral and see what people claim is the best.  IIRC in the FAQs is a recipe for a homemade version.


As far as sights, small aperture= good for range use.  Large aperture= good for field/night use.  Change 'em around for varied training.

[Dutch]

I am building an LTR for the Fallon, Nevada shoot in March.

As I can't find a Ruger 10/22 Model RR with the 20 inch barrel, it looks like I will be going with the Walley World Special with the 22 inch tube.  The first thing I plan is to totally strip the receiver in and out and refinish with something like Duracoat.  I may even do the entire barreled action. 

Has anyone done this?  Is so, with what coating and what are the "do's" and "don'ts"?

Also, has anyone tried the trigger assemblies from Hornet Products? http://www.hornetproducts.com/bin/category.asp?category=10

For about $90.00 they have a reworked trigger, enhanced bolt release, and extended mag release.  (They may also provide a trade-in credit of $30.00 for the swapped out factory assembly which I am confirming).  Alternatively, you can send them your factory assembly and they will rework them similarly for $55.00 with a 3 day turnaround.

This appears to be a great deal based on the prices of the separate parts needed.  Plus it is completely "drop in" with no smithing or fitting required.  The quality looks good based on many positive reviews on RimfireCentral.com.  This may be just the ticket for the "standard" or "recommended" LTR package discussed above.

Thoughts?  I will be the "tester" if no one else has experience with this set-up.

Dutch

[Old Dog]

I've been "promising" myself that I would do the same to my 10/22 (strip and paint) but haven't gotten around to it yet.  It's a good (fairly) warm winter day project.  I did an FAL last year and it looks like a new rifle.  Not sure the same stuff will work on the 10/22 but I'm going to try it.  Whatever you use you might try testing it on a small piece of metal first.  Test both the finish surface and it's resistance to the chemicals you'll be using to clean the rifle.  It would be a shame to go to all the trouble to disassemble and strip the rifle and refinish it just to have the bore cleaner or lubricant stain or remove the new finish.

As to the trigger work - lots of folks do it.  I haven't seen the need yet on my 10/22.  It's purpose is to provide a cheap to operate "clone" of my M1A/M1.  As rough as some may find a factory 10/22 trigger it's certainly no harder to use than the big rifle triggers so I've left it alone so it's closer to my big "boys".

I'm not against nice triggers, I know a nice trigger can help you out when firing a rifle.  I'll tell you also that I've seen folks shoot very well with rifles that I thought had terrible triggers (talking about you Student).  Just be sure the money spent on the trigger work is better than money spent on practice ammo.

Have a good one.

[Grin Reaper]

Thoughts?  I will be the "tester" if no one else has experience with this set-up.

I have no experience with them, but I'm intruiged...

[Snake45]

As to the trigger work - I haven't seen the need yet on my 10/22.  It's purpose is to provide a cheap to operate "clone" of my M1A/M1.  As rough as some may find a factory 10/22 trigger it's certainly no harder to use than the big rifle triggers so I've left it alone so it's closer to my big "boys".

I'm not against nice triggers, I know a nice trigger can help you out when firing a rifle.  I'll tell you also that I've seen folks shoot very well with rifles that I thought had terrible triggers (talking about you Student).  Just be sure the money spent on the trigger work is better than money spent on practice ammo.

AB-solutely! These words should be made a sticky to appear at the top of every page of this thread!

I make it a point to shoot a number of different rifles with all kinds of triggers, from sweet to pretty crappy. (Handguns too, for that matter.) This gives me the skill to do fairly well with just about anything I happen to pick up. 

[Dutch]

M14A4Me and Snake45:

Message received.  I will evaluate the trigger when I get the rifle in hand.  I certainly see the benefit of having it be similar to that of my M1A.  If it's way off I will make the call at that time.  I also see that I don't want or need a 10/22 match quality trigger.

What do you think of the enhanced bolt release and extended magazine release upgrades?  Nice to have or have to have?

Thanks again.

Dutch

[Nickle]

Fixing the bolt and mag releases is pretty much essential.

You don't HAVE to do it, but, you'll wish you had.

As to trigger jobs, folks, if you go that route, don't get carried away. I found my 10/22 triggers to be heavy and rough, so I trimmed down the weight (to 3 1/2 - 4 1/2 pounds) and called it good. They're a long way from perfect, but much better than they were. The object is to duplicate a battle rifle, not be a match gun.

[Grin Reaper]

Fixing the bolt and mag releases is pretty much essential.

You don't HAVE to do it, but, you'll wish you had.

+1 to that!

[Snake45]

I have extended mag releases on both my 10/22s. Nice to have.

Don't have the bolt stop mod on either and have never missed it, though I might mod the factory part myself next time I have it apart, if the mood strikes me.

[Old Dog]

The 10 rnd. mags. I bought have a release "button" built into them.  I sort of works like an M1A mag.  I grab the mag with my trigger hand, push up on the button (on the mag) with the thumb of my trigger hand and pull the magazine out of the rifle.  If those mags ever tear up I may install an extended mag. release.

Again, attempting to duplicate the movements required to operate your "big" rifle is part of the idea here so do what you can to duplicate those actions.

[Simballo]

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=145851&t=11082005

This package was recently on sale for $30.

It not only solves the bolt problem, but much improves the trigger of the 10/22 by replacing the hammer.

The notch in the Volquartsen hammer is smoother than the stock Ruger hammer. Not that you can't modify the stock trigger, but this takes some skill and the new hammer is drop-in. Granted either road requires some gunsmithing skill.

Midway sells another product that replaces both the sear and hammer for $79, but you still have to buy the auto bolt release or manually modify the factory bolt release.

Every type of after market mag release I've installed for the 10/22 has worked fine. Midway sells a $5 plastic release that wokrs as well as the expensive releases.

While I'm typing I'll mention a Hogue rubber overmolded stock for the 10/22 I saw at a gunshow a few weeks ago.

One problem I have with any of the Ruger 10/22 stocks I've got is they are slick. When I'm prone and using the sling I want for a non slippery surface under the stock so my hand won't slide. The rubber stock is great for that, but since I use a scope I need a raised piece for the cheek weld and the rubber type stock didn't have it.

I noticed the fellow beside me at Evansville had some type of anti slip tape under his 10/22. It looked like a 120 grit waterproof sandpaper glued to the stock under the barrel. Some bath tub anti slip tape might work too.

[SGTCap]

The VQ hammer is all you need to improve the 10/22 trigger.  I polished all the parts in mine and installed the hammer.  It makes all the difference in the world.  I wouldnt recommend spending any more money than that on the trigger unless your building a benchrest gun.

One not:  Use the factory springs, not the ones in the VQ kit.  You can end up with light strikes or a trigger that doesnt reset with the light springs.

[ken grant]

 I used the VQ hammer in one of my 10/22 with the Ruger springs. The trigger pull was too light for most shooters including me. You don't have any feel at all.
With the factory hammer in, the pull is too heavy (really heavy)for most shooters including me.

What do I do now?

[Old Dog]

I bought one of these for my M1 stock.  Two little phillips head screws hold it in place (once you figure out exactly where it needs to be for you).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ADVANCED-TECHNOLOGY-UNIVERSAL-CHEEK-REST-FACTORY-NEW_W0QQitemZ220113760647QQihZ012QQcategoryZ73951QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

[Budro]

The VQ hammer is all you need to improve the 10/22 trigger.  I polished all the parts in mine and installed the hammer.  It makes all the difference in the world. 

One note:  Use the factory springs, not the ones in the VQ kit.  You can end up with light strikes or a trigger that doesnt reset with the light springs.

I originally just replaced the hammer as you suggest, but on my 10/22 the trigger pull still wasn't smooth.  Maybe it would have improved with more use, but I did switch the VQ springs and the pull is much better.  The pull is light, but no problems so far.

BTW, for a newbie like me, I've found the book "Customize the Ruger 10/22" by James House to be incredibly helpful.  I found the instructions of the VQ kit and the instructions for the extended magazine release to be confusing.  No matter!  I just went through the disassembly and assembly instructions in the book and all went well.

[rdhood]

I used the VQ hammer in one of my 10/22 with the Ruger springs. The trigger pull was too light for most shooters including me. You don't have any feel at all.
With the factory hammer in, the pull is too heavy (really heavy)for most shooters including me.

What do I do now?

Stone the (original) hammer.  Should lower the pull to 3-4 lbs instead of 8 (original) or 2.5 (VQ).

[Snake45]

I have two 10/22s and have never had the trigger groups apart on either. The 1966 gun, bought used in the '80s, has a delightful trigger--about 4 pounds, and very crisp with little if any felt movement. It's actually better and easier to shoot than any centerfire military rifle I own. My 1985 10/22, bought new, has a pull of maybe 5-6 pounds with a little felt creep. It's just a little bit cleaner than the pull of my Inland M1 carbine. I understand that newer 10/22s have much worse triggers and almost require attention of some kind to shoot well.

I have an Iver Johnson/ERMA EM-1 .22 carbine which is delightful to shoot except for its trigger, which is actually TOO good. It's somewhere around 2 pounds but has about as much movement as the trigger of a Glock pistol--but very smooth. It's a nice trigger to shoot but it feels nothing like my "real" carbine's trigger--or any of my other military rifles.

I also have a Norinco JW-14 whose trigger feels very, very similar to the one in my Polytech M14S--somewhere around 4 pounds with a small amount of smooth movement. I think this rifle is going to get a larger share of my LTR duties next year.

[Simballo]

I used the VQ hammer in one of my 10/22 with the Ruger springs. The trigger pull was too light for most shooters including me. You don't have any feel at all.
With the factory hammer in, the pull is too heavy (really heavy)for most shooters including me.

What do I do now?

Stone the (original) hammer.  Should lower the pull to 3-4 lbs instead of 8 (original) or 2.5 (VQ).

http://smartflix.com/store/video/1291/Ruger-1022-Trigger-Job

Here's a link to the AGI video course you can rent for $10.

[Nickle]

I used the VQ hammer in one of my 10/22 with the Ruger springs. The trigger pull was too light for most shooters including me. You don't have any feel at all.
With the factory hammer in, the pull is too heavy (really heavy)for most shooters including me.

What do I do now?

Stone the (original) hammer.  Should lower the pull to 3-4 lbs instead of 8 (original) or 2.5 (VQ).

Yup, stone the original hammer.

I have altered a few of them already, and have gotten pretty decent results. Didn't exactly stone them, but, I did lighten them up enough.

The problem with the original hammer is the sear angle isn't right. You check my posts in this thread, and you should find the link on how to stone the hammer. It's over at Rimfire Central.

Snake, you just hit on the real problem, and now I understand why you say the original triggers are OK. They are great triggers, if they're older 10/22's. The new ones, well, the triggers just SUCK. So heavy that they cause rifle movement, and they're heavier than ANY of the military rifles I've got (and I've got a bunch of them from 1895 to present). Totally unacceptable for marksmanship.

[Snake45]

I'll have to confess I've never shot a 10/22 other than my two, so I really have no idea just how bad the trigger is on the newer ones, other than reading the common complaints at RFC. But you know how some people are, they start asking about what junk and toys and candy they "need" for their new gun before they've even paid it out of layaway so I've perhaps tended to discount much of the talk about the new ones "needing" trigger work. But maybe they really do.

I'm still of the opinon that if you're interested in building skill with a battle rifle, you can have a trigger on a practice rifle that's "too good."

[ax238]

I'm still of the opinon that if you're interested in building skill with a battle rifle, you can have a trigger on a practice rifle that's "too good."

i agree with that holeheartedly.  I have been switching back n forth between my M1A and my LTR the past 2-3 weeks in dry firing.  When I go back to the LTR, that tough little trigger has me canting right off the bat!  The SA is a 'Loaded', so it is not a NM trigger.  But, WHOW, what a world of difference.  I get a trigger squeeze lesson all over again when I climb onto the LTR.  I think it is good practise for me to just stick with the factory lbs. and let it break rough.  So I can practise my 'sighter' shots with every pull of the trigger.

Ax

[Grin Reaper]

How-to install TechSights with pics at http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=1453.msg16218#msg16218

[socalserf]

I went yesterday to buy my new 10-22. The lady at WallyWorld told me that they don't sell real guns in CA because of all the fruits and nuts( no joke). Said that it was just too dangerous.
I could have told her that liberty is always dangerous, for tyrants. I didn't say any thing, what could she have understand? But it does get you thinking about living in a Free State.
There is an upside, I now know where not to do my shopping.
Serf

[ax238]

Agreed.  There is no real response to those who choose to live in ignorance purposely.  I live in I.U. town and the people here just want their little utopia of 'academia elites' and nothing more.  It is amazing at how these people, in their attempt a pacifism and 'peace', somehow bypass the knowledge that someone (definitely not them--they are above it) had to actually pay the cost of freedom at some point.  I guess these individuals think that wars are fought rocks and elegant tongue lashings. 

In their attempt at being learned and in the know, they have been swayed by the system into choosing ignorance.  A closed mind can hide behind many different faces in many different places.

There is no better way to put it.

[Grin Reaper]

Remember, LTR's aren't just for you to practice with and save on your ammo bills -- over the Cjristmas break, take your LTR and a young person (or better yet, a soccer mom) to the range -- win their hearts and minds.

[ax238]

I am going to work on taking my daughter's mom to the range.  She seems to be the most opposing force in my gun culture world.  Winning the mind in this situation is a must. 
I want/need/have been working on educating my own family on their right to defend themselves and the responsibility to do it.  Rather than rely on a slothful government and a uninterested man with a radio and a badge.
Appleseed seems to open doors to many discussions.