Not quite hopeless with my Garand

[jimmythegeek]

(Or United States Rifle, Caliber .30, M1 to be proper)

I was thinking about heading out next Sunday and seeing what I could do with it.  Based on my experience at the range, it won't be pretty.  I beat myself up in prone, can't load clips quickly, and at twice the weight of my Marlin 795, I can't shoot it standing more than one round per rest, and at that I'm shooting around 20 MOA.   So apart from Stages 1 through 4, I'm good. 

What do you think? I'm not a big guy.  Should I get some experience with a lighter weight, lighter kicking AR and come back to this beast when I'm worthier (stronger)? I might be spoiled by .22lr recoil.  Last November I handled Shadowman's H&R better than I perform now, so I'm sure my head is all wrong.  Ball & Dummy would help, I bet.  I'm still not sure how I'll keep that muzzle from drooping in Stage 1.  The High Power shooters seem to lean back to plant the support elbow on the body.  Pretty sure I'd get knocked back a step or two if I tried that, with unacceptable risks to muzzle discipline.

I guess I know what the answer is: dry fire, ball & dummy, dry fire...and hit the weights.  I have my wife about 1/2 convinced I need an AR in 5.56 as a transition piece, though.   Maybe I should hold off on accepting any advice until I get her the rest of the way...

[floydf]

My opinion: Get a cheap AR, good sights, and (hopefully) a decent trigger, and then shoot, shoot, shoot.

Not only is the AR much, much easier to shoot (well), the ammo is half the price (which means you shoot twice as much). And, if the balloon ever does go up, unless you live out in Little House On The Prairie, the AR may be a much better fit.

[hinermad]

How about doing dry fire practice with the Garand? All the weight and none of the recoil. Even ten minutes a day will help, and it'll make holding the Marlin seem easy by comparison.

Dave

[BuzzG]

How about doing dry fire practice with the Garand? All the weight and none of the recoil. Even ten minutes a day will help, and it'll make holding the Marlin seem easy by comparison.

Dave

These are great for dry fire practice: http://www.dummybullet.com/
Reasonably priced too.

Buzz

[Unbridled Liberty]

I think these are even better for dry practice (you only need one):
http://www.fulton-armory.com/dryfiredeviceform1m14andm1afultonarmory.aspx

The trigger is easily reset with just a small movement of the op rod handle.  Reset it yourself with a thumb and index finger, or have your wife reset for you if you don't want to break position.

UL

[yellowhousejake]

There are advantages to not cycling the bolt. If you simply pull on the trigger until you feel five pounds of pressure and say B A N G, relax and do it again,

- You don't break position
- You don't need someone to cycle the bolt
- You don't acquire "click flinch"
- You don't learn to anticipate your trigger break

Simply get your rifle and practice 10 shots a night, every night, and put it away. Week one is standing, week two is sitting, week three is prone. Then start all over.

Don't shoot live rounds until nine weeks of practice, and then do this drill ten  times for every live round you shoot ( shoot a clip full on Sunday, practice 40 shots before you shoot another clip full next weekend). That may require you practice ten shots a night after having fired live rounds, that's good.

YHJ

[jimmythegeek]

Thanks for the tips! Looks like I'll need the dummy rounds for practicing clip insertion and the dry fire device for the actual trigger time.  And an entry level AR, too.  En block clips are $2/each on the dummy ammo site, shipping is negligible.  Thanks for the link!

I will persist...I feel like I own the rifles I've qualified with.  The others, I just bought 'em.  There's a difference.  I'm looking forward to bonding with this one.  I'll have to figure out what to do with a couple that just aren't that suitable for an AQT.  I'm thinking of a tacticool carbine course, but run it with an m1 carbine.  That's three less than an m4 carbine.

[George Hacker]

Thanks for the tips! Looks like I'll need the dummy rounds for practicing clip insertion and the dry fire device for the actual trigger time.  And an entry level AR, too.  En block clips are $2/each on the dummy ammo site, shipping is negligible.  Thanks for the link!

I will persist...I feel like I own the rifles I've qualified with.  The others, I just bought 'em.  There's a difference.  I'm looking forward to bonding with this one.  I'll have to figure out what to do with a couple that just aren't that suitable for an AQT.  I'm thinking of a tacticool carbine course, but run it with an m1 carbine.  That's three less than an m4 carbine.

James,

There is a wooden block that you can use with en-bloc clips to practice loading with.  Midway has them:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/416646/springfield-armory-m1-garand-military-training-block-for-safe-dry-firing-and-training

If you are a reloader, then I suggest you create 8 dummy rounds without primer and powder for practice.  I painted the tips of mine blue and always confirm the base doesn't have a primer before I dry practice.

I bought some en-bloc clips from Fred.  He had them for a very reasonable price and I saved the shipping by going to North Carolina on business and picking them up.  It was a pleasure meeting Fred and talking about Appleseed.  I suspect you will pay less by buying clips from Fred and then having them shipped, rather than paying $2 per clip.

So did you get your Garand from the CMP?  Got pictures to show off?  Congratulations!

- ShadowMan

[hinermad]

En block clips are $2/each on the dummy ammo site, shipping is negligible

Or the CMP has them for $20 for 25 clips. That's less than a buck each.

http://estore.odcmp.com/store/catalog/catalog.aspx?pg=product&ID=PC014

Unfortunately they're backordered. (sigh)

A tactical carbine course with an M1 Carbine sounds like fun. Probably turn a few heads when they hear those .30 caliber rounds go off.

Dave

[Foppish Dandy]

A rifleman persists jimmy...
Don't give up on the Garand. I've been spending quite a bit of time with my '39 Garand at the range. I was getting frustrated for quite a while as I was getting knocked out of position and shooting 8-MOA groups. Really, what it came out to, was really returning to the fundamentals that we teach at Appleseed. I was fortunate enough to have one of my fellow instructors there to remind me... then we did a little bit of ball and dummy. I like to take about four snap caps and six live rounds, mix em up in my hands and then load them into my en bloc. I flip the sucker a few times and slam it down into the Garand. That took care of a pretty significant amount of issues.

Seemed to work pretty well, because I took my Garand out to the range on Friday and nailed four in a row on the 600 yard steel... What's that? A seventy-three year old rifle w/ the original sights shooting some of the ugliest forty year old surplus ammo you've ever seen was able to consistently hit a 4-MOA steel target at 600 yards?! Let's just say that shut up the bench-rest jokers shooting their ARs with enormous scopes... even surprised the RSO that was kind enough to spot for me.

This stuff works... even when you're getting up to the 30-06.

Few things that I do when shooting my Garand that may or may not help you...
- I address my target at much more than thirty degrees... feel like it locks me in better.
- I have my sling so tight that my fingers start tingling by the end of my string of fire.
- I jam my hand as far up into that sling swivel as I can... then I jam it up even further (a fatty glove helps).
- I tend to push my weight forward into the sling a bit more that I would just relaxing (note... not bucking here) just to really lock myself in.

Let us know how it goes!

[Psych Doc]

Definitely stay with it! Mastering that M1 will be all the sweeter because it is challenging. 

[CaptG]

Keep practicing with your 22 to shrink your groups (for the cost factor) but don't let the M1 intimidate you. I find mine to be very easy to shoot well. Excellent sights and enough weight to offset recoil work wonders. Shooting AQT's with it is more difficult as it has its own set of skills as far as quick reloads that take time and practice to master.
G

[hawkeye]

It's only hopeless if you give up. The Garand is a very easy rifle to load and shoot with practice.Watch a good motivational movie such as Band of Brothers and practice loading and handling the rifle.

[M1NC]

+1 to what hawkeye said.  He was kind enough to walk me through all sorts of M1 issues with and when it was all said and done I qualified at KD with mine.  It can be done, you just have to persist (hmmmm, where have I heard that before )

[wcmartin1]

My own experiences with going from primarily shooting an M1A to an AR15 and back to an M1A has proven to me that the AR certainly is an easier rifle to shoot, but mastering 30 cal. battle rifles (M1 or M1A) is a worthy endeavor (the same skills apply to both the M1 and M1A with the exception of how they load).

They are much less forgiving if you are not following the fundamentals of the "6 steps to firing the shot" and your positon is absolutely critical - you can cheat a little with the AR and get away with it, but if you try that with the 30 cals., they will bite you either in points lost or recoil.

It's very satisfying to be competitive with the AR and Match Rifle (space gun) shooters using an old iron workhorse.

Git-R-Done! 

[jimmythegeek]

I've noticed I've been cheating with my .22lr guns.  They are too easy.  I can still get rounds on target muscling the rifle.  In my hands, the Garand is too big to get away with that.  I'll pay more attention to establishing NPOA like I was taught (and taught, and taught), and dry fire.  I figure I'm about as big as half the infantrymen who had to carry this back in the day, so I ought to be able to make it work. 

I expect my .22lr groups will shrink as I get more disciplined by .30-06. 

This is getting fun, again!

[Mutti]

FoppishDandy says:

Few things that I do when shooting my Garand that may or may not help you...
- I address my target at much more than thirty degrees... feel like it locks me in better.

Oh my yes! This really helped in prone / sitting for me. Standing - let's just say I'm still working on the upper body strength and learning to slow down.

This series of youtube videos helped me understand the "how" of the Original Training: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh4zt_8tZYM and how Appleseed differs (no muscle, no holding breath) - however - the basics of Operations

I also received the M1 Rifle Marksmanship videos from fulton-armory.com for Mothers Day - that really did help.