Author Topic: Gauging Interest in Creating Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings  (Read 4484 times)

Offline Foppish Dandy

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Gauging Interest in Creating Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« on: March 07, 2012, 07:37:40 PM »
As I've been getting my small business set up (I make custom marksman slings from woven paracord) I was considering some other products I could offer. One thought lead to another and I had a bit of an idea that I wanted to run by the group at large...

Would anyone be interested in an Appleseed/RWVA branded loaner sling? It would have all the standard M1 sling fixtures, but in the place of the standard cotton webbing there would be something along the lines of the attached image tiled down the length of 1.25" super-durable polyester webbing.

I would offer the slings at cost (appx. $8 each) to instructors in batches of 3-5+ for use as loaners at shoots. Additionally, I could offer the slings to the general public for a few bucks extra and donate the proceeds to the RWVA.

Thoughts, ideas, feedback?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 11:44:29 PM by Foppish Dandy »

Offline ItsanSKS

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2012, 07:45:23 PM »
I think it is an outstanding idea, and wholly support it.  Please provide a few pictures of the complete prototype when you can.

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Offline yellowhousejake

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2012, 07:53:53 PM »
I love the idea, but for a loaner I would really like 1" width. It will get through the weekend just fine compared to a 1 1/4", and allow me to install it on a LOT of rifles without zip ties that already have 1" swivels installed. I could have used four this weekend alone, and likely sold them.

I wouldn't want a 1" on a centerfire, but a 22 is just fine with the narrower width and great for kids. If they have an H buckle and a keeper like a GI sling, I will order them, and likely keep several stocked in my shoot box.

I think to keep costs down a simple repeated printing of Appleseedusa.org would suffice. Not as pretty, but sufficient.

YHJ
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 07:55:53 PM by yellowhousejake »
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Offline LawDog

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2012, 08:01:42 PM »
I don't have enough experience to comment on the 1" versus 1.25" question, but love the idea.  I have a stock of slings purchased through CMP, but I understand that they won't last long (as in they will walk off or be sold). 

Offline Foppish Dandy

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2012, 08:02:31 PM »
I love the idea, but for a loaner I would really like 1" width.

That's actually part of the plan... I'd actually use a Dremel tool to cut down the hook hardware to 1" so they'd work on all the swivels. That way you've got the best of both worlds... the wide strap with the 1" hook.  ;D

Offline yellowhousejake

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2012, 08:14:15 PM »
I love the idea, but for a loaner I would really like 1" width.

That's actually part of the plan... I'd actually use a Dremel tool to cut down the hook hardware to 1" so they'd work on all the swivels. That way you've got the best of both worlds... the wide strap with the 1" hook.  ;D

I do too many shoots to monkey around with dremeling my hooks now, and I spend too much money on handout ammo and give away food/water to buy an extra hook for every sling. I want cheap and nickles count.

1" wide, no hooks, simple printing on a solid color, I can give away or sell at cost 10-20-30 more a year that way. I don't want a few to loan out with adapted hardware, I want them showing up on firing lines everywhere because it was inexpensive and went on the rifle with a minimum of parts.

Is my enthusiasm for this idea showing?

YHJ
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Offline Foppish Dandy

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2012, 08:34:53 PM »
I do too many shoots to monkey around with dremeling my hooks now, and I spend too much money on handout ammo and give away food/water to buy an extra hook for every sling. I want cheap and nickles count.

1" wide, no hooks, simple printing on a solid color, I can give away or sell at cost 10-20-30 more a year that way. I don't want a few to loan out with adapted hardware, I want them showing up on firing lines everywhere because it was inexpensive and went on the rifle with a minimum of parts.

Is my enthusiasm for this idea showing?

YHJ

The hooks would actually come pre-Dremel'd by yours truly... ready to go right outta the package. I could always offer two versions... one with hooks and one without. Really doesn't add any effort to the process for me. Heck... I could also just offer the webbing itself for sale by the foot.

I was actually also thinking of simplifying the design a bit... the first was something I just threw together from copy/paste of assets I found on the forum. Here's what I was thinking for a more simplified strap design.

I've already got a request for assets in with SPQR and scuzzy for a different project... once I get official assets and hear back on a quote from my vendor I should be able to build out my first two for public review.

Sam
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 08:36:44 PM by Foppish Dandy »

Offline Foppish Dandy

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2012, 08:35:48 PM »
Oops... here's the new image.

Offline gcvaughn

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2012, 08:44:58 PM »
I'd be interested in these in 1.25" and 1" sizes.  Cool idea.
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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2012, 10:58:26 PM »
Cool idea and kind offer.  Be sure to run anything using the RWVA brand by Believer as there are legal implications involved and we need to be sure all bases get covered.
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Offline Charles McKinley

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2012, 11:47:10 PM »
If your doing a large batch of hooks a bigger grinder would make it go a lot faster add a jig and faster still.
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Offline Foppish Dandy

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2012, 12:37:13 AM »
Cool idea and kind offer.  Be sure to run anything using the RWVA brand by Believer as there are legal implications involved and we need to be sure all bases get covered.

Absolutely... figured I'd need to get it approved. I was actually about to start on a search for who I'd need to talk with. Thanks for the info!

Offline SPQR

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2012, 01:28:02 AM »
Placing a hook on the front is seen as helpful but it really isn't.  people put their sling on one time, or have an instructor do it for them, and the rest of the weekend they use a QD clip or a J Hook.  the end result is that they don't learn how to use their sling properly.  this is endemic among shooters and, horrifyingly enough, instructors as well.  A cursory perusal of AARs will expose the reality that the process of using a QD clip or J Hook on the front is at times expedient, it sets a bad example.  In fact, in my role as training liaison for Indiana I have asked my fellow instructors to cease doing this when shooting at a shoot with their hat on.  Not only that, but a single weekend of not using a QD clip to detach the sling can produce a shooter who is capable of getting into and out of their sling just as safely and almost as quickly as using the QD clip. 

While I applaud the loaner sling concept I don't advocate the forward clip or hook.  It sends the wrong message and allows people to not learn a worthwhile lesson. 

Offline Foppish Dandy

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2012, 05:30:53 AM »
While I applaud the loaner sling concept I don't advocate the forward clip or hook.  It sends the wrong message and allows people to not learn a worthwhile lesson.

Just to clarify for everyone... This sling would be constructed in an identical fashion to the standard M1 sling that we use for Appleseed:
 - 1.25" Webbing
 - 1 Clip
 - 1 Slide
 - 1 Rear J-Hook

The only two real differences will be that instead of cotton webbing, it will be polyester webbing and the J-hook will be trimmed down to 1" wide for broader use across swivels. For those that are concerned about the width of the webbing, take a look at the attached photo. 1.25" webbing will pass through a 1" sling swivel just fine. There's only a slight bit of of scrunching up... It's even exaggerated in this photo as I didn't have any standard 1.25" webbing on-hand, so I used a dog toy made of two layers of thicker webbing.

... never a plan to add a hook to the front.

Offline wcmartin1

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2012, 08:13:07 AM »
Placing a hook on the front is seen as helpful but it really isn't.  people put their sling on one time, or have an instructor do it for them, and the rest of the weekend they use a QD clip or a J Hook.  the end result is that they don't learn how to use their sling properly.  this is endemic among shooters and, horrifyingly enough, instructors as well.  A cursory perusal of AARs will expose the reality that the process of using a QD clip or J Hook on the front is at times expedient, it sets a bad example.  In fact, in my role as training liaison for Indiana I have asked my fellow instructors to cease doing this when shooting at a shoot with their hat on.  Not only that, but a single weekend of not using a QD clip to detach the sling can produce a shooter who is capable of getting into and out of their sling just as safely and almost as quickly as using the QD clip. 

While I applaud the loaner sling concept I don't advocate the forward clip or hook.  It sends the wrong message and allows people to not learn a worthwhile lesson.

Well said, "Hot Pants".   :cool2:
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Offline BeSwift

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2012, 09:08:26 AM »
When this comes to fruition, I'll sign up for an initial batch of 5.. If they're a hit, you might want to inquire if you can get them in shoot boxes on a for sale basis to the students...  Great idea and I wish you luck!    BeSwift
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Offline Sly223

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2012, 09:47:03 AM »
A healthy supply of slings is always important,
 the type we use are not being made much anymore. !@#)
I even went to a gun show,
 and then Stanley's Army & Navy store,
 spent $60 trying to piece together10 straps with the Hardware for about four! ++)
Now stuck with a bunch of over priced crap! #)
Get the Go for the Trademark or AS approval,and hopefully you can just provide them to the AS store! ..:..
Always lokkin' for a sling at an Event,as though all the new Rifles come with Tacticle single point or other junk because its cool not functional! :D
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Offline Mark Davis

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2012, 10:47:34 AM »
The 1" idea is outstanding. We all have manly slings, yet most students are women and children.
The hooks on the GI sling are hard on the hand, and either to loose to be trusted with no tension on the sling, or to hard for kids and women to hook onto the swivels.
A nice soft 1" sling that fits into existing quick detach swivels, not so bulky on small arms, yet adjusts for lenght, and does not scratch the stock.
Two thumbs up Jake.

Offline GEmanuel

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2012, 11:54:04 AM »
Keep me in mind for these when you get into production. Sounds good and Lord knows we can always use slings!

Offline colycat

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2012, 11:59:31 AM »
these slings might be a good fit for the "in the works" Appleseed Edition of the Ruger 10-22.

Btw, Sly, the slings in the AS store are new manufacture in nylon.
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Offline Foppish Dandy

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2012, 02:33:25 PM »
The 1" idea is outstanding. We all have manly slings, yet most students are women and children.
The hooks on the GI sling are hard on the hand, and either to loose to be trusted with no tension on the sling, or to hard for kids and women to hook onto the swivels.
A nice soft 1" sling that fits into existing quick detach swivels, not so bulky on small arms, yet adjusts for lenght, and does not scratch the stock.
Two thumbs up Jake.

Let me just reiterate so that I'm being very clear... THERE WILL BE NO FRONT HOOK ON THESE SLINGS. Nothing to hurt the hands or scratch the front of the stock. The back J-hook is easily removable as it is with the standard GI sling and will be cut down to fit on both 1.25" swivels as well as 1" swivels. Additionally, I can make it a selectable option to discount the sling the appx. $2 that the hook costs.

Additionally, as I stated above, the 1.25" webbing fits just fine through the 1" sling swivels. I would prefer the wider webbing as it's easier on the hands and arm when snugged down. That extra quarter inch does a lot to keep the strap from digging in. Additionally, the strap-keepers are designed for 1.25" webbing and will be more secure on correctly sized webbing. If the group at large is wholly opposed to this, I'll start searching for 1" strap keepers.

these slings might be a good fit for the "in the works" Appleseed Edition of the Ruger 10-22.

Was thinking that exact thought... Liberty Training Sling/Appleseed Liberty Sling anyone?  O0

Offline The Wolfhound

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2012, 03:30:54 PM »
I do like what I am seeing here.  I am interested in your products once you get going.  I have one sling with a J-hook on the front.  I made it to fit a rifle that had pre-installed 1 inch loops that I did not wish to remove or change(CZ-452FS).  To make a standard 1.25 inch sling work on this rifle I cut down  J-hooks for both ends.  I am not advocating hooks for the front end but let me be clear that this sling finds a needy user at EVERY Appleseed because it can rapidly be adapted to a variety of swivel set ups.  Based on that fact, I will make more of them if for no other reason than I might want to shoot my own rifle again, someday, with a sling.

Offline grunt soldier

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2012, 03:45:03 PM »
I think it's a awesome idea sir and would be in for at least 6 as I have a ton of 22 rifles that need to be outfitted anyways.  on top of loaning them out folks.  and for the price it would be great option.  I'll be watching this thread for updates  ^:)^
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Offline aragornelessar86

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2012, 04:23:15 PM »
I'm interested in just the ribbon for use in numerous applications. Any thoughts on selling that as a standalone item?

Also, where do you get your sling hardware? I've been looking at some custom sling ideas for a while now but can't find the hardware to test it out. PM me if you don't feel like posting here for some reason.
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Offline Foppish Dandy

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2012, 04:39:35 PM »
I'm interested in just the ribbon for use in numerous applications. Any thoughts on selling that as a standalone item?

Also, where do you get your sling hardware? I've been looking at some custom sling ideas for a while now but can't find the hardware to test it out. PM me if you don't feel like posting here for some reason.

Was definitely considering selling the webbing at cost as a standalone (COUNTLESS uses for some RWVA/Appleseed webbing... promo... promo... promo.). Mainly, I use two sites: strapworks.com and gunpartscorp.com ... both have been passed around the forums a bit.

Offline Mark Davis

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2012, 08:49:21 PM »
I would buy some more 1 1/4 slings but the 1" one would have some good applications. There was a woman here in Bozo that was making some 1 inchers a couple years ago. The hardware was plastic, but for the smaller shooters it should hold them up.
I'm going to see if I can track her down.

Offline Foppish Dandy

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2012, 09:03:09 PM »
I would buy some more 1 1/4 slings but the 1" one would have some good applications. There was a woman here in Bozo that was making some 1 inchers a couple years ago. The hardware was plastic, but for the smaller shooters it should hold them up.
I'm going to see if I can track her down.

Out of curiosity, what applications can a 1" sling fill that can't be filled by a 1.25"?

Offline Mark Davis

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2012, 11:27:52 PM »
I would buy some more 1 1/4 slings but the 1" one would have some good applications. There was a woman here in Bozo that was making some 1 inchers a couple years ago. The hardware was plastic, but for the smaller shooters it should hold them up.
I'm going to see if I can track her down.

Out of curiosity, what applications can a 1" sling fill that can't be filled by a 1.25"?
It fits on rifles that come with a stationary or otherwise non standard quick detach sling swivel.
I  have a hard time getting the 1 1/4 metal end of the GI sling through a 1" loop.
I use and have several 1 1/4 loaner slings, but a couple 1 inchers woud be useful.

Offline Johnnyappleseed

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2012, 11:46:37 PM »
Placing a hook on the front is seen as helpful but it really isn't.  people put their sling on one time, or have an instructor do it for them, and the rest of the weekend they use a QD clip or a J Hook.  the end result is that they don't learn how to use their sling properly.  this is endemic among shooters and, horrifyingly enough, instructors as well.  A cursory perusal of AARs will expose the reality that the process of using a QD clip or J Hook on the front is at times expedient, it sets a bad example.  In fact, in my role as training liaison for Indiana I have asked my fellow instructors to cease doing this when shooting at a shoot with their hat on.  Not only that, but a single weekend of not using a QD clip to detach the sling can produce a shooter who is capable of getting into and out of their sling just as safely and almost as quickly as using the QD clip. 

While I applaud the loaner sling concept I don't advocate the forward clip or hook.  It sends the wrong message and allows people to not learn a worthwhile lesson.

I agree 100% and weld the quick detaches shut on my LTRs .
At my 1s AS I was behind every course of fire -
Evenually I got quicker and could find the sweet spot too.

Sadly I have seen RH unable to demo sling use , because it never left their support arm.
The slings themselves -- we can always use them  O0
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 11:48:39 PM by Johnnyappleseed »
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Offline aragornelessar86

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Re: Appleseed Branded Loaner Slings
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2012, 03:01:48 PM »
Was definitely considering selling the webbing at cost as a standalone (COUNTLESS uses for some RWVA/Appleseed webbing... promo... promo... promo.). Mainly, I use two sites: strapworks.com and gunpartscorp.com ... both have been passed around the forums a bit.
Awesome, thanks man.  O0
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