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Reloading for the .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO

Started by Nickle, June 14, 2007, 04:10:46 PM

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wcmartin1

#60
December 06, 2007, 02:11:05 PM Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 08:09:56 PM by wcmartin1
Quote from: scopeboy001 on December 06, 2007, 01:34:36 PM
reloading is meant for shotshells, anything that you can buy army surpluss and still have the same if not better results than your handloads is not worth reloading. although if anyone can figure out a hand load that would take enough windage out of the 22 hornet while still remaining ballistically safe contact me and i just might take back what i said.

congratulations nickle on kicking the habit

Surplus has it's place, it's great for practice (Boston sez - surplus ammo turns money into skill) and WTSHTF ammo (I shoot the hell out of it and stack it deep), but you cannot get the same or better results with it compared to a handload - that's why you handload, because your loads are better (and it's fun ;D). 

I can load a SMK for about ten cents more/bullet than the current price of surplus ball or a premium hunting bullet for at least half the cost of factory ammo (and these loads are more accurate as they're tailored to my rifles).  I'm sure Nickle can beat that with the connections, discounts, experience, equipment, and skill that he has available.

I feel the opposite about shotgun shells, though -  I buy factory for 12's and 20's.  Unless it's a 16 or 28 gauge it's not worth reloading for IMHO.
"Unhappy it is, though, to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast and that the once-happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by a race of slaves.  Sad alternative!  But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?" - George Washington - from a letter to a close friend after the events of April 19, 1775

"There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our (the United States) overthrow.  Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter.  From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger.  I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing." - Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

Nickle

#61
December 06, 2007, 02:13:34 PM
Quote from: scopeboy001 on December 06, 2007, 01:34:36 PM

congratulations nickle on kicking the habit

Wasn't a habit, it was a different shooting discipline. We even had several High Power competitors that were fellow Bench Rest shooters. I left it because it was turning into too much money and too much time drain on me.

There's a big difference between a Bench Rest Competitor and a guy that always goes to the range and shoots from the bench. I'm the first one, not the second one.

None of my fellow competitors (or me) would even think about shooting a Battle Rifle (as in an AR) from the bench, unless they were working up a load or testing something on it (thereby needing to eliminate the "human factor" as much as possible).

About handloads? Well, you won't shoot any 1/4 MOA or smaller groups with Surplus ammo.

Me, I reload for 3 reasons. Cost, Qualitity, and well, I'm in the business of it (part-time for now, full time when I retire from my current job in a couple of years). Type 06 Ammo Manufacturer, as well as Type 01 FFL.
They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about, having been employed as Rangers against the Indians and Canadians and this country being much covered with wood, and hilly, is very advantageous for their method of fighting. . . . ".  Lord Percy

Sounds like New Englanders to me.

scopeboy001

#62
December 07, 2007, 12:39:22 PM
i will allow whoever said that they prefer factory shotgun loads to hand loads to keep believing whatever they want to, but i for one am not yet able to find a factory load that i can use out of my high-end trap gun and still be able to achieve a 18 inch pattern using size 8 shot at 30yrds like i can with my handloads. also as a 16 yr old of a rather slight build, handloading is just a little bit better, using my 12ga handloads i can get a load that puts out the pattern i said earlier at a velosity of around  1250 fps, all while generating around approximately around 10 to 12 pounds of total recoil out of a standard barrel and approx. 8 to 9 lbs of recoil out of a ported barrel. using a full choke.
In this life I have no regrets, only memories.
  Because if you live each day like your last, you will alwase know how to begin.   - Oran

Nickle

#63
December 07, 2007, 01:10:31 PM
Quote from: scopeboy001 on December 07, 2007, 12:39:22 PM
i will allow whoever said that they prefer factory shotgun loads to hand loads to keep believing whatever they want to, but i for one am not yet able to find a factory load that i can use out of my high-end trap gun and still be able to achieve a 18 inch pattern using size 8 shot at 30yrds like i can with my handloads. also as a 16 yr old of a rather slight build, handloading is just a little bit better, using my 12ga handloads i can get a load that puts out the pattern i said earlier at a velosity of around  1250 fps, all while generating around approximately around 10 to 12 pounds of total recoil out of a standard barrel and approx. 8 to 9 lbs of recoil out of a ported barrel. using a full choke.

That was me that said that. It usually refers to duplicating factory loads, though, which is something you're NOT doing. Quality of reloaded shotshells is usually less than factory loads, assuming the loads are the same. (Rifle and pistol ammo, though, handloads are actually much better, if the reloader knows what he's doing.)

When you're shooting a hundred or so a week, factory loads get pricey, even at club prices. I have reloaded shotshells, and frankly speaking, I did it for cost issues, mostly. If I was still shooting Skeet, I'd still be reloading shotshells.

So, in your case, reloading shotshells makes complete sense, as you're loading something that can NOT be bought (or at least easily bought).
They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about, having been employed as Rangers against the Indians and Canadians and this country being much covered with wood, and hilly, is very advantageous for their method of fighting. . . . ".  Lord Percy

Sounds like New Englanders to me.

Old Dog

#64
December 07, 2007, 01:17:09 PM
I'll admit up front I'm as bad as anyone else about thread drift, hijacking, etc.

Now that I've admitted my issues can I please remind us all to get this one back on reloading for .308's, 7.62X51, etc?

Thanks.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

Old Dog

#65
December 09, 2007, 01:23:20 PM
Ran across this somewhere.  Sorry if I've already shared it.  If not, enjoy.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

Oohrah

#66
December 10, 2007, 02:53:43 AM
Good stuff M1A4ME, well worth read for great information!

wcmartin1

#67
December 10, 2007, 12:23:06 PM
Quote from: M1A4ME on December 09, 2007, 01:23:20 PM
Ran across this somewhere.  Sorry if I've already shared it.  If not, enjoy.


Yeah,  I posted it earlier in the thread.  Good info.

http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=277.msg5896#msg5896
"Unhappy it is, though, to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast and that the once-happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by a race of slaves.  Sad alternative!  But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?" - George Washington - from a letter to a close friend after the events of April 19, 1775

"There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our (the United States) overthrow.  Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter.  From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger.  I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing." - Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

PHenry

#68
December 10, 2007, 12:57:58 PM
Good info to be had in Mstr. Sgt. Jim Owen's book "Sight Alignment, Trigger control and the Big Lie" on page 81. He uses a gauge to measure run out on a per rifle / load basis. He also sells the gauges or can certainly point you to someone that does. He also sells wind charts that are round specific, and his books are excellent for expert and novice alike. He is a NRA HP competitor, and that course of fire is very similar to Appleseeds program in terms of shooting portion. I would recommend his books to anyone that has already been to Appleseeds or a RBC.
http://www.jarheadtop.com/
PHenry
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit. Aristotle

Para ser Libre, un Hombre debe tener tres cosas. La Tierra, una Educacion, y un Fusil. Siempre, un Fusil!  Emiliano Zapata

Old Dog

#69
December 10, 2007, 07:30:14 PM
Sorry, wcmartin1.  I was trying to organize my files into folders and ran across it.  I must have downloaded when you posted the link.  I didn't remember where it came from.  I "collect" any information that seems like it might be of value for later use.  Keep it up.  Good info is good info.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

wcmartin1

#70
December 10, 2007, 08:14:24 PM Last Edit: December 10, 2007, 08:55:49 PM by wcmartin1
Quote from: M1A4ME on December 10, 2007, 07:30:14 PM
Sorry, wcmartin1.  I was trying to organize my files into folders and ran across it.  I must have downloaded when you posted the link.  I didn't remember where it came from.  I "collect" any information that seems like it might be of value for later use.  Keep it up.  Good info is good info.
No offense taken, Sir.  Glad you found it useful. 

The match load Zediker recommends in the text box on page 12 is comparable to the M852 load that Nickle shared in a previous post (M852 uses xx.x gr IMR4985, but this one uses .5 gr less of H4895.  However, Zediker recommends CCI BR2 primers and I use CCI No. 34's exclusively in my M1A).  It's a good 600 yard load with Lake City or Federal brass and I can safely get five reloads with it in my rifle.
"Unhappy it is, though, to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast and that the once-happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by a race of slaves.  Sad alternative!  But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?" - George Washington - from a letter to a close friend after the events of April 19, 1775

"There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our (the United States) overthrow.  Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter.  From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger.  I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing." - Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

Old Dog

#71
December 10, 2007, 09:14:14 PM
You know I continue to hear about how the 7.62X51 has some issues at longer ranges (past 500 to 600 yds.??)  Yet I keep reading in that new book I've been posting about that at various places guys shot the M1 at 500 to 800 yds.  One guy wrote about being near the Siegfried Line and (while he never hit anyone) making the German soldiers duck, dodge and run at a range of 1200 yds. with his M1.  The M1's used a flatbase bullet.  Are the flatbase bullets less subject to being "upset" when slowing down below/approaching subsonic?
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

Atlas Shrug

#72
December 10, 2007, 09:48:56 PM
Quote from: M1A4ME on December 10, 2007, 09:14:14 PM
You know I continue to hear about how the 7.62X51 has some issues at longer ranges (past 500 to 600 yds.??)  Yet I keep reading in that new book I've been posting about that at various places guys shot the M1 at 500 to 800 yds.  One guy wrote about being near the Siegfried Line and (while he never hit anyone) making the German soldiers duck, dodge and run at a range of 1200 yds. with his M1.  The M1's used a flatbase bullet.  Are the flatbase bullets less subject to being "upset" when slowing down below/approaching subsonic?

There is more to it than that.  For example the .308 Sierra Match King - 168s misbehave when dropping subsonic, but 175 SMKs are fine - often being fired with success well past 1000 yards.  I've shot my .308 at 1000 yards some each of the past two weekends to good effect.

Accurate fire with an M1 and WWII ammo (.30-06 AP) at 500 to 800 yards was definitely possible with a competent rifleman.  Harassing fire at 1200 would also be possible, but definitely with a huge accuracy and energy drop.

wcmartin1

#73
December 10, 2007, 09:54:54 PM Last Edit: December 10, 2007, 09:58:40 PM by wcmartin1
I don't know the answer to your question, but due to 7.62x51 cartridge limitations (50,000 psi) and the M14's action it's max effective range is around 800 yards as you can't push the bullet fast enough to stay supersonic much farther than that. 

The Garand with it's 30-06 is ~ 100 fps faster which may have something to do with it (Hmmm...but, the ballistic coefficient of a flat-base 150 gr bullet is definitely lower than a 168 gr or 175 gr SMK - which rules out this argument.)

Whatever the case - tumbling bullets at 1,200 yards that were close would make me duck too.

I do know that the Palma shooters are using 155 gr .308 SMK's in bolt guns and pushing them fast enough to stay supersonic at 1,000 yards.

Edited to add:

Just saw Atlas Shrug's comment of his experience at 1,000 yards with 175's.  I believe it, but I was typing when he posted.
"Unhappy it is, though, to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast and that the once-happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by a race of slaves.  Sad alternative!  But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?" - George Washington - from a letter to a close friend after the events of April 19, 1775

"There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our (the United States) overthrow.  Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter.  From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger.  I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing." - Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

Joe

#74
December 10, 2007, 10:02:58 PM
Its not hard to to keep 175 SMK's supersonic at 1000 yds but it does take very careful hand loading because you are pushing the limits and right up against the pressur limits of a M-14.

Old Dog

#75
December 10, 2007, 10:21:04 PM
It must be the transition from supersonic to subsonic that causes the problem (which could be affected by bullet design/shape).  I say this because the old black powder jobs (the best rifles/bullets/shooters) of the late 1800's were supposed to have been able to put 10 shots in a 12" group at 1000 yds.  And I doubt those bullets were supersonic anywhere in their travel.

The farthest I've ever shot is 600 yds. (and the holes were still round) so I don't have any experience at farther ranges (maybe one of these days).
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

wcmartin1

#76
December 10, 2007, 10:25:12 PM
Quote from: M1A4ME on December 10, 2007, 10:21:04 PM
It must be the transition from supersonic to subsonic that causes the problem

Exactly.
"Unhappy it is, though, to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast and that the once-happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by a race of slaves.  Sad alternative!  But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?" - George Washington - from a letter to a close friend after the events of April 19, 1775

"There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our (the United States) overthrow.  Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter.  From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger.  I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing." - Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

Nickle

#77
December 11, 2007, 09:05:32 AM
Quote from: wcmartin1 on December 10, 2007, 10:25:12 PM
Quote from: M1A4ME on December 10, 2007, 10:21:04 PM
It must be the transition from supersonic to subsonic that causes the problem

Exactly.


That is the issue. And it's been well documented.
They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about, having been employed as Rangers against the Indians and Canadians and this country being much covered with wood, and hilly, is very advantageous for their method of fighting. . . . ".  Lord Percy

Sounds like New Englanders to me.

Atlas Shrug

#78
December 11, 2007, 10:07:03 AM
For clarity, the 1,000 yard .308 work I referred to was with a bolt gun, not an M14 or Garand platform.  The rounds were 175 SMKs and they were likely still supersonic at that distance.

That said, such ballistics are almost exactly that of the M118LR** round, which I'm pretty sure is being used to good effect in the sand box.  Thus they should be OK in an M14, likely so with a Garand - but I've not tested the latter yet.

** (175 gr. SMK, 44 gr. RL15, Lake City brass, and Fed 210M primers [I'm pretty sure] being the recipe for M118LR from what I've been told by someone who should know.....)


My point is that going much past 1000 with the 175s would have made them subsonic, but they appear to perform well past that transition (well proven by others, but not me - not yet  :) ).  The 168s however tend to misbehave more during the supersonic to subsonic transition, hence it's more critical with these to keep them supersonic all the way to the target.

Yes, the big fat old lead slugs do fine way out there in general.  Exterior ballistics is a deep and fascinating subject, of which I recognize I've only scratched the surface of......

sanderman79

#79
December 12, 2007, 09:40:16 PM
Hey where are you guys getting 308 brass from.  The best deal that I could find is like 125 per 1000. 

Thanks
Raymon

wcmartin1

#80
December 13, 2007, 06:07:02 PM
Haven't bought any for a while.  I've been reloading surplus. ;D
"Unhappy it is, though, to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast and that the once-happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by a race of slaves.  Sad alternative!  But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?" - George Washington - from a letter to a close friend after the events of April 19, 1775

"There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our (the United States) overthrow.  Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter.  From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger.  I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing." - Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

scopeboy001

#81
December 17, 2007, 01:32:16 PM
i dont know about all of u guys,
but i personally enjoy shooting subsonic rounds.
i find great pleasure in squeezing off a shot, then moving to my spotting scope in time to watch the effects of the round hitting the target in real-time as it happens.

but thats just my opinion.  { accounting for a larger arc in trajectory is also a challenge that i enjoy taking on as a result}
In this life I have no regrets, only memories.
  Because if you live each day like your last, you will alwase know how to begin.   - Oran

wcmartin1

#82
December 17, 2007, 02:38:06 PM
Quote from: scopeboy001 on December 17, 2007, 01:32:16 PM
i dont know about all of u guys,
but i personally enjoy shooting subsonic rounds.
i find great pleasure in squeezing off a shot, then moving to my spotting scope in time to watch the effects of the round hitting the target in real-time as it happens.

but thats just my opinion.  { accounting for a larger arc in trajectory is also a challenge that i enjoy taking on as a result}

Haven't tried it with subsonic rounds. 

With iron sights and surplus or match reloads I am able to see the bullet splash indicating a miss or hear the impact of a hit on the steel (non-reactive) silhouette.

However, I do have several bolt guns with scopes and am able to recover from the recoil in time to see the impact through their scopes at 500 yards.  It's easier with a 22-250, but I can also do it with a 30-06. 

Yeah, it's cool. ;)
"Unhappy it is, though, to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast and that the once-happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by a race of slaves.  Sad alternative!  But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?" - George Washington - from a letter to a close friend after the events of April 19, 1775

"There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our (the United States) overthrow.  Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter.  From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger.  I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing." - Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

Atlas Shrug

#83
December 18, 2007, 08:07:52 AM
Quote from: scopeboy001 on December 17, 2007, 01:32:16 PM
i dont know about all of u guys,
but i personally enjoy shooting subsonic rounds.
i find great pleasure in squeezing off a shot, then moving to my spotting scope in time to watch the effects of the round hitting the target in real-time as it happens.

but thats just my opinion.  { accounting for a larger arc in trajectory is also a challenge that i enjoy taking on as a result}

If you move off the rifle and look through the scope fast enough to see the round hit, then your follow through must really be awful.  I strongly discourage you from doing this if you have any hopes of being a good shot.

Watching it through the scope on your rifle is another matter.  Reacquiring your sight picture is part of proper follow through.

VAshooter

#84
December 18, 2007, 11:22:46 AM
Atlas Shrug,
When I was shooting in competition it was standard practice, at least among High Masters when shooting at 1000 yards, to come off the rifle and watch the contrail of the bullet through the scope as it went down range. This meant moving your head about two inches as the scope was positioned just left of the rifle. There were valuable things you learned by watching the bullets path. We were taught this technique by the team coaches but it was only used at the 1000 yard range.

Sometimes techniques get picked up by less experienced shooters without a full understanding of why they are being done. It would be usless at shorter ranges and I would never recommend it for anyone not competing at a high level in long range competition.

VAshooter

Atlas Shrug

#85
December 18, 2007, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: VAshooter on December 18, 2007, 11:22:46 AM
Atlas Shrug,
When I was shooting in competition it was standard practice, at least among High Masters when shooting at 1000 yards, to come off the rifle and watch the contrail of the bullet through the scope as it went down range. This meant moving your head about two inches as the scope was positioned just left of the rifle. There were valuable things you learned by watching the bullets path. We were taught this technique by the team coaches but it was only used at the 1000 yard range.

Sometimes techniques get picked up by less experienced shooters without a full understanding of why they are being done. It would be usless at shorter ranges and I would never recommend it for anyone not competing at a high level in long range competition.

VAshooter

Agreed, with these caveats:

-only at 1000 yards (or more)
-only with a 45 degree angle scope
-only to watch the bullet trail
-only with still having a good follow through
-only by a competent shooter

With the scope properly set up and done by a competent shooter, you don't even need to move your head from the stock - just look over.  However, IMHO, it's still better to do this as a coach and have the shooter work on follow through and shot call.  Then switch.  Two heads are much better than one.  :)

Done in the above form, there is value.  Generically jumping off the scope to watch, however, is a very bad habit I've seen too many shooters try.  None of them were any good.   :(

That's why I jumped on scopeboy.  It's not a technique I'd recommend to most folks.

TwoGlock

#86
January 01, 2008, 09:17:20 PM
Quote from: sanderman79 on December 12, 2007, 09:40:16 PM
Hey where are you guys getting 308 brass from.  The best deal that I could find is like 125 per 1000. 

Thanks
Raymon

That sounds like a "Grab It Before It Goes Away" deal to me.
   TwoGlock
After All Is Said and Done
  More Is Said than Done

TwoGlock

#87
January 01, 2008, 09:24:25 PM
Quote from: scopeboy001 on December 17, 2007, 01:32:16 PM
i dont know about all of u guys,
but i personally enjoy shooting subsonic rounds.
i find great pleasure in squeezing off a shot, then moving to my spotting scope in time to watch the effects of the round hitting the target in real-time as it happens.

but thats just my opinion.  { accounting for a larger arc in trajectory is also a challenge that i enjoy taking on as a result}

I would enjoy doing that also, if I could move that fast.......
   TwoGlock
After All Is Said and Done
  More Is Said than Done

Redwolf

#88
January 13, 2008, 04:20:25 PM
Has any one heard of small base full length sizing die? I'm using a Forster BR full length die for reloading ammo for a Panther 308 LR and not all the brass want to feed. I have mic. Factory brass at .467 at 1/8 to ¼ up from the base. Once fired brass is running .472 to .474. The once fired brass from the Panther is running at .468 After resizing the other once fired brass it is running .469 to .4695. At this size the brass dose not like to feed and will hang. I can work the brass through the die a few times and with a little polishing get it down to .4678.

jrturbo

#89
January 13, 2008, 04:44:36 PM
Redwolf,

plenty of options out there for small base full length.  I personally use the RCBS Xdie

http://www.midwayusa.com/esearch.exe/search?search_keywords=308+small+base&category_selector=all_products

Todd
Tribuo mihi licentia vel tribuo mihi nex.
If Appleseed is not about making a difference in this country, starting at the local level, then we are nothing more than a distraction that will lead to the loss of our inheritance.
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