Reloading the .223 Remington/5.56 NATO Cartridge

[Francis Marion]

For the mechanically/technically inclined:
Heated die setup can be built with, at a minimum, a home drill press and a set of standard drills.
You can buy new heating controllers here
http://www.watlow.com/
or better yet improvise/scrounge your own from obsolete machinery.  Such things are discarded by manufacturing plants from time to time, even though they still work. 
To make an electronic annealer, you need:
  A die capable of withstanding 800°F and of suitable size to receive heat from the heat source. 
  Heating system: Heating rods, controller & temperature sensor system
  Pliers to retrieve the annealed casing form the die
  Stopwatch to control how long the casing is in the die
  Water bucket for quenching (optional)  I don't believe water quenching imparts significant hardness to the brass, but am still investigating this.
(I have subsequently spoken with a metallurgist on this point.  As far as brass is concerned, once you take it to the annealing temperature, the brass remains annealed regardless of whether you water quench it or not.  Annealed condition endures independently of the rate of cooling to room temp.  The only way a reloader is going to harden annealed brass again will be through the familiar work hardening cycle- brass expanded by propellant firing followed by compression through a resizing die.)   

What the electronic system does is heat up the die to a precise temperature, and maintain that temperature.
You have to develop process/parameters that work for your brass and system.  In my case, I use 750°F and a 30 second/cartridge cycle time, running six cartridges at a time, 12 per minute.  The cartridge neck neck and distal shoulder are slip fit/adjacent to the die during heating.  Your process must heat the neck and shoulder to annealing threshold, yet keep the body and head below annealing threshold.





 

[DaveD]

Now you've got me thinking!  I'm mechanically inclined but, not necessarily technically up to speed for this project.  I do not really care for the torch work (as I'm doing them one at a time)  I like what you have there. Could it be done as a larger unit set up to tilt, dropping out the annealed brass?  Thinking production

[Francis Marion]

Sure, automation can increase the throughput and offer a manually loaded, automatically unloaded procedure.  The more capability, usually the more the system costs.  I chose a minimal $ setup made from available waste materials and components, and also to prove out the concept.  I find the resulting brass and throughput rate are OK for a garage reloading operation with the 6-up manual load/unload configuration.     

[DaveD]

Quick question about sorting brass by head stamp.  How important is that?

I've developed my load using LC brass.  This weekend I aquired approx 500 rds of once fired brass, mostly Remington, some Winchester.

Do I need to develop loads for each head stamp?

[Nickle]

The thickness may vary some.

You'll find more potential difference between military and commercial than between brands.

[wcmartin1]

Quick question about sorting brass by head stamp.  How important is that?

I've developed my load using LC brass.  This weekend I aquired approx 500 rds of once fired brass, mostly Remington, some Winchester.

Do I need to develop loads for each head stamp?

Winchester and Lake City in 5.56 are almost interchangeable and you should be able to use the same load data.

I would weigh the Remington as a comparison.  You may need to adjust your load slightly.

Should you come across some Federal (FC headstamp) you will need reduce your load.

[DaveD]

Thanks Brothers, I'm off to the reloading bench!!

[biathlon]

Natchez still has the CCI#41s in stock.

[Old Dog]

I've used a Forster case trimmer for years (mostly .308 and 30.06) but I'm about to start loading lots of .223 (in the past it was just a few rounds for groundhogs).  I have the pilot for the Forster (when I find that darn baby food jar of parts for it) but meanwhile bought one of those Lee case trimmers.  The Lee can be used by hand or used with a drill. 

It seems neat and easy up front but I ran into two issues Sunday.

The first was some surplus military cases that had a smaller than normal flash hole.  The pilot that sets the case length will not will not fit completely into the flash hole so those cases don't get trimmed at all.

The second was some cases that evidently have a thinner than usual "web" in the base of the case.  While trimming I noticed that the necks were getting shorter than "usual".  Since the pilot should bottom out on the inside of the case any difference in case length is due to varying thickness of the web in the base of the case.

Looks like the Lee trimmer is okay for "cleaning" cases by spinning them with the drill while holding a wad of fine steel wool on the case, but for trimming it will not give you consistent case length (if there's in nonuniformity in the cases) like the Forster style case trimmer.


The reason case length/neck length is importan -

if the case is too long it can result in higher pressures when the bolt chambers the round and jambs the mouth of the case into the end of the chamber.

if the necks are different lengths the tension on the bullet will be different (possibly a minor issue for accuracy but more important to make sure the bullet doesn't get jamned back into the case or fall out/bend the case neck/bullet during feeding.

[Aromatic]

Getting ready to order some 77gr SMK bullets but I see they come with and without a cannelure.  Any reason to get one over the other?  They will be used to feed an AR.

[jacques]

Getting ready to order some 77gr SMK bullets but I see they come with and without a cannelure.  Any reason to get one over the other?  They will be used to feed an AR.

Cannelure is used to get a good solid crimp. No Cannelure, you can still crimp, but would not be recommended for full auto rifles since there is a lot of vibration and what not (they don't want the bullet falling out of the casing or being pushed in with these full auotos).

Now, be sure to do your homework with the 77gr for your AR. They will end up being too long to fit into your AR magazine. If you are not planning on using the mag, and are feeding them in one at a time, there is no problem. And in that case you do not really need a cannelure either.

There is a limit to the weight you can go before they start making the bullets too long to fit in a magazine. I seem to recall 70gr. Maybe someone will correct me if I am wrong.


For plinking and all around SHTF ammo, it is probably best to get cannelure, that way, even when the ammo is just being transported, the bullet wont push in or fall out (though a crimp on a non-cannelure should suffice for this).

[Aromatic]

They will end up being too long to fit into your AR magazine.

Hmm, that would be a problem.  I thought 77 gr bullets were the standard for 1:7 AR's?

[Nickle]

Your best choice should be 69 gr Sierra's.

If you don't crimp them, you still should be fine.

[Aromatic]

Of course, Midway is out of the 69 gr.   

So when people speak of 77 grain bullets and AR's they are single loading each round...?

[dean]

69's, 75 Hornady BTHP, and Sierra 77's can all be loaded to magazine length. Hornady 75 AMAX and all the 80 grain bullets should be loaded long, not magazine length. Mag length is 2.250 in.

I thought the discussion on annealing to be fascinating. I have never annealed a case. I get somewhere around 15 loadings out of a case before I get a split neck. I have a batch of 3000 cases that I load every winter for the upcoming highpower season. Every year I get 10 or 15 split necks. They are discarded of course. All of my brass is mixed headstamp. LC (various years) WCC, Winchester, Remington, and others. I don't use Federal brass, too soft.

For the 600 yards line, I weigh brass so all the brass for that yard line weighs the same. I seem to get lots of brass either 92 grains or 92.5 grains, so I have two boxes of brass to load my 80's into. I have found, that unlike the 308, commercial 223 brass is heavier than LC 223 brass.

The rest of the brass weighs all over the place from 88 grains to 98 grains. It is all loaded, disregarding weight and head stamp, to get 2950 fps with 69's and 2750 fps with the 75 BTHP. Because the brass varies in weight, velocities are all over the place, but it doesn't matter at 200 and 300 yards because the bullet is not arcing in like it does at 500 plus yards. And it certainly doesn't matter at 25 meters. I use the maximum charge of RE15 listed in the Sierra reloading manual.

[Old Dog]

There are two lengths you need to eyeball.

You obviously can't seat a bullet so far out that it won't fit into and feed out of the magazine - if you intend to use a magazine.

The second length you need to pay attention to is whether or not the cartridge will chamber without the bullet "ramming" into the lands of the riflleling in the barrel. 

Every rifle is a little different than the next one.  Your "long" cartridges may be short enough to feed from the mag, but so long that the bullet contacts the lands when the  bullet chambers - that is also "bad".  Most reloading manuals will tell you that if the bullet contacts the lands when chambered it will drive up the chamber pressure when the powder ignites.

The bullet should be close, but not touching.  You can check by seating a bullet "long" and then chambering it and then ejecting it to look for marks on the bullet from the lands.  If the bullet touched the lands it'll usually leave marks.  If it touched, seat the bullet a little deeper, polish the marks away with some 0000 steel wool and chamber it again.  Repeat till you don't have the bullet contacting the lands, seat it a tad deeper (you want it close but not touching) and measure it.

The best of both worlds is it "almost" touches the lands and still fits/feeds from the magazine.

The heavier a bullet is, the longer it is for that caliber so the deeper in the case it has to be seated to feed/chamber, so the bullet "robs" the case of powder capacity and/or volume which also drives up the pressure - possibly to the point of robbing you of velocity depending on the powder you use.  That's what happens in the .308 when you go heavier than 180 grain on bullets.

What you are considering/looking at takes time, patience, investigation, thought and recording of what you learn - but you should be rewarded with reloads more accurate than anything you can buy for your rifle once you find the bullet, primer, powder and cartridge overall length that your rifle "likes".

Have fun, learn some stuff, and be careful.

[jacques]

Of course, Midway is out of the 69 gr.   

So when people speak of 77 grain bullets and AR's they are single loading each round...?

Natchez has 69gr. I ordered some yesterday.

[biathlon]

Wideners has the ss109s in stock!

[DaveD]

I'm loading Hornady 75 gr BTHP at book OL they just fit the mag.  Very accurate in my 1:7 twist.

[Aromatic]

What is the ideal trim length?  All 4 of my manuals show 1.760 but I have read online that 1.750 is better for reliability.

Also, what type of variation is acceptable in case length?  +/-.001, .0005?

[Panama]

I measure each case every time I reload it and trim once they reach 1.760. I trim them to 1.755 and my variance is =/- .001.

My reloads are for varmint hunting and I use 26.8 gr Varget with a 55 gr Varmint Nightmare Extreme bullet. Overall length is 2.250. I have used SR primers from CCI, Magtech, Federal and Wolf with these and have noticed no difference in accuracy.

With my Ruger M77 Hawkeye, which is scoped, I make a clover leaf at 100 yards. In my AR, stock GI open sights, I shoot a 2 MOA group. These have even proven very accurate and reliable at 500 yards in both rifles. I have also used them in Dinky Dao's buddy Elvis (XCR) at Gibsonburg. Until trying this load I never thought a 55gr bullet would be reliable at 500 yards.

[Son of Martha]

Case length spec is 1.760" -.020
Chamber spec is 1.772" +.015

I just went and trimmed some cases to check, using a Lee trimmer and case length guage.  Shellholder chucked in a drill.

10 cases, shortest miked 1.749", longest was 1.759".  Distribution appeared normal. 

Also checked some 7.62x51 I had trimmed this morning with same equipment, trim lengths fell within a range of 1.910" to 2.000".  I attribute this to variations of technique on my part, I hate case trimming and just want to get it over with...

My objectives in reloading is to have safe, 4 MOA ammo with trajectory difference from milsurp of no more than 1 MOA at 500 yards, that will chamber in any rifle in the caliber.  These case length tolerances work for those objectives.  If I were a benchrest shooter they would be unacceptable.

SoM

(Edited for typo)

[Aromatic]

Thanks for the info.  Like SOM my obejctive is not match ammo, just stuff that will feed and cycle in all .223/5.56 rifles.  I set my trimmer up to 1.750".

[jacques]

So I just got done doing a work up  with 69gr SMK bullets and found 2-sweet spots that seem to work well out of my AR. At 22.2 gr and 24.2gr TAC powder the groups at 100yds are the tightest. With 24.2gr the group is slightly larger but that could just be me. So I was looking for some input on which load I should use. Given they are the same , except the velocity. At 22.2gr, the velocity is around 2600fps. At 24.2 it is around 2900.

Is it better to go for the higher velocity. I would be using these for all around shooting at 25 to 400yds.

[dean]

The 2900fps load will work far better that the slower one at 400 yards. For the 69 grain bullet, 2900 fps is the lowest velocity that you are looking for. I have seen them shoot well under 1 moa in a 8 inch twist barrel at 300 yards.

For 25 meters, it doesn't matter. Cartridge case length or type, powder charge, bullet type or weight, none of this really matters unless you are going to actually shoot at 500 yards. And even then, there is no reasonable combination of components that would exceed 4 moa.

I hope we aren't getting too wrapped up in highpower competition concerns here at Appleseed Central. I am a Master class highpower competitor that would shoot into 1 inch squares all day long with various "junk" highpower loads.

Developing shooting skills are far more important than agonizing over the ammo. IMO

[Aromatic]

I received some 77gr SMK and Mil Spec 62 gr FMJSCBT from Widener's.  I picked the 77 gr SMK for my first attempt at assembling ammo because there is more data available for them.  New Remington brass with CCI #41 primers.  I used Reloader-15 and made 20 rounds each with each charge of 23.0gr, 23.5gr, and 24.0gr.  I noticed with the 23.5 and 24.0 charges there was a crunching sound when seating the bullet.  Is this normal?

Also, what is the abbreviation for Reloader-15?  I have seen RX-15, RE-15, RL-15 and assumed these were all the same powder.

[Necede]

I received some 77gr SMK and Mil Spec 62 gr FMJSCBT from Widener's.  I picked the 77 gr SMK for my first attempt at assembling ammo because there is more data available for them.  New Remington brass with CCI #41 primers.  I used Reloader-15 and made 20 rounds each with each charge of 23.0gr, 23.5gr, and 24.0gr.  I noticed with the 23.5 and 24.0 charges there was a crunching sound when seating the bullet.  Is this normal?

Also, what is the abbreviation for Reloader-15?  I have seen RX-15, RE-15, RL-15 and assumed these were all the same powder.

Aromatic. That crunching sound is the powder being compressed. The 77 SMK is about the longest bullet that can
be lenghted to fit in an AR 15 magizine. I use 24gr of Reloader 15, Federal GM205M primer, Winchester brass.
C.O.L. 2.26" just enough to fit into a AR mag, with a f.p.s. of 2648 out of a 20" 1 in 7 twist barrel. I have
excellent results with this in my particular rifle.

[Aromatic]

The 77gr SMK with 24.0 gr Reloader 15 shot very well at 100 m.

What is a good load for the 62 gr FMJSCBT?  I have Reloader 15, BL C(2), and 4895 on hand.  This will be used for loaner ammo/rifle use on the actual distance AQT.

[ItsanSKS]

Hello all, I hope you can explain to me whats going on here...

I've recently (about a month or two ago) started reloading for my AR-15. Its an M-4 style rifle, with a 16" 1:9 twist barrel.

I tried loading up some test loads, using 1x fired Lake City '08 cases, H335 powder, 62 gr SS109 surplus projectiles, and Wolf Small Rifle primers. While the velocities and Standard Deviation looked to be right where they should be, group size was less than spectacular, with no 5rnd groups less than 5" at 100 yards.

All cases were sized to proper specs on an RCBS X-Die, then trimmed to a length of 1.747" +- .001" on a Giraud case trimmer.
The SS109 proj. were seated to the cannelure, and a modest crimp added via a Lee Factory Crimp Die.
The only variable changed was the powder charge, and these were all hand-measured for consistencies sake.

Here is the velocity info/Std deviation for my test groups today:
(20 rounds fired per test group, barrel cleaned between each, with a 5 round fouler group fired prior to 'record')
24.8gr: High: 2867 Low: 2807 AVG: 2841 SD: 23.96
24.9gr: High: 2873 Low: 2824 AVG: 2848 SD: 13.15
25.0gr: High: 2886 Low: 2824 AVG: 2863 SD: 19
25.1gr: High: 2892 Low: 2842 AVG: 2864 SD: 15.25
25.2gr: High: 2886 Low: 2842 AVG: 2864 SD: 12.37
25.3gr: High: 2911 Low: 2867 AVG: 2889 SD: 13.64

As you can see, groups 24.9, 25.2, and 25.3 should have been the best performers of the day, according to SD, but NONE of these produced what I consider to be a discernible group at a mere 100 yards.

One of the loading manuals that I am using calls for a 'magnum' primer when using H335 for 62-69gr bullets, though the other manuals I have do not. I have read that most people use a magnum primer for their .223 loads, no matter the powder/bullet combo... My big question is this: Would changing the primer to a "magnum" primer have a noticeable effect on the group size, if all other variables remained the same? Or do I just suck that badly at reloading?

FWIW, prior to doing this test, I fired 5 Lake City M855 rounds out of the same rifle, and put up a 1.2" group at 100yds, with one called flier.

[Necede]

I've never heard of using magnum primers in a .223 round. I've been loading SS109 in LC brass with a Winchester
WSR primer and 24.9gr of Varget. They average 3020fps and about a 1.5" group at 100 yds. I've never been real
happy with the grouping but everything else I try seems to make it worse. Makes me wonder if thats the best it
gets. Necede.