AAR College Station TX, Oct 15-16, 2011

[sleepy Joe]

Another successful event here where the stars at night are big and bright, deep in the heart of Texas.  I will put more details later, so this is just a place holder for you who were wondering about us.

We had 17 shooters on Saturday and 17 returned on Sunday (not all from Saturday returned on Sunday but we had a few show up for a short time) we had good weather, not too windy not too hot no rain.
106 rounds down range on Saturday
291 rounds shot on Sunday
Instruction went pretty smooth for the amount of attendees. overall a good event.

[scuzzy]

I just got an email from one of the guys I sent up there. He liked it:

https://yeoldefurt.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/appleseed-shoot-analysis/


Thanks for putting on yet another good, no make that outstanding, shoot.

I was told "The gentlemen instructors (Brett, Joe and Steve did real good and were a credit to the organization.) Please pass on my kudos for their good work."

[Sir Not Appearing In This Film]

Some pics from Saturday to get us started.

Finishing the first Redcoat target.








Ball and dummy drill.

[punkndisorderly]

I attended the recent Appleseed in College Station, TX. I wanted to post my thanks as well as voice some (hopefully) constructive criticism. Feel free to share my comments or respond.

First, I wanted to thank you for dedicating your time to coming out and trying to get a bunch of cooks at least a little closer to being rifleman and giving me an excuse to get my butt off the couch and have a great weekend with my Father (who went with me). Both of us walked away with a lot more knowledge than we showed up with. The material is top notch. All three instructors were friendly and professional and knew their stuff. 

I do have some criticism though. Some is with the way all weekend shoots work, at least as I understand them. Some may be with the particular one I went to. Feel free to "critique my critique". I'll start with the major, and end with two minor points.

The training on Saturday felt extremely rushed. The instruction was pretty much limited to a brief, high speed rundown of each topic (position, natural point of aim, steps to firing a shot, etc), followed by a brief two minute period to get in position, try to apply everything, and then shoot a timed string. There was no time to get comfortable with the position. The focus was on doing quickly rather than doing correctly. With approximately 20 shooters and three instructors, I got very little individual attention or critique on what I was doing, either positive or negative.

After shooting a string, I knew I was doing things incorrectly. However, there was no time to make corrections and get a topic "down" before moving on to the next rapid-fire lesson and timed string. By the end of the first day I was frustrated to the point of not wanting to return for Sunday. My groups deteriorated for the entire first day. The best group was my first of the day. I progressively shot worse each string. It was not because of what was being taught, all of it is first rate. Rather, it was because I never had time to work on any one position to get it "down" enough to shoot better. My frustration was probably part of the problem.

We did return Sunday, and I enjoyed it more, but again, the time was pushed from beginning to end. I never did perfect, or even get comfortable (as in familiarity, not as in lazy-boy) with the positions. I started sitting out rounds towards the end of the day as it was apperent that I needed to work on the positions on my own time before I would have a chance at rifleman. I started feeling like I was just sending rounds down range.

Again, the material is great. I've been working on the positions and topics and intend to continue to do so until I've worked gotten it as good as I can get it on my own. Once I do that, I'll return to an appleseed again to fine tune and maybe shoot rifleman.

The two small criticisms. They're nit pickey, but I think are still important and worth mentioning. First, there wasn't much emphasis on having "eyes and ears" on before beginning a string. In the rush to get ready during the two minute prep period, I forgot my ears more than once. Not fun when you have AR's with aftermarket brakes on each side of you. My father admitted to doing the same. Calling "eye's and ears" immediatly before starting a stage would be a worthwhile addition.

The second was no lead warning during the safety briefing. Watching a bunch of folks eating sandwhiches and other "finger food" with their hands after shooting all morning was kind of disturbing. Maybe I'm overly paranoid about it, but thought it could stand being mentioned.

I've attended a fair amount of training, both firearms related and non-firearms related both in the military and as a civilian. I'm also a NRA certified instructor and Texas CHL instructor. I don't say that to impress, but I do say that to maybe add a little credibility to my points.

One issue I was running I have a feeling was with the equipment God gave me. My astigmatism was playing havok on the last stage. My iron sights (tech sights on my 10/22 and match sights on my AR) were blurring with the target whenever I tried to take that 6 o'clock hold to the point where I couldn't tell if I was just touching it, covering it, etc. The targets would also blend together side to side and I would lose track of which one I was targeting. I'm goign to try a bit of hot pink nail polish on the front sight to see if that helps differentiate. If not, maybe a scope is in my future. Switching to the 597 with a scope that my dad was firing that weekend improved my score by 20 something points mostly because I could actually see those little buggers on the bottome row.

[spitstickler]

Hey Punkndisorderly,

First of all, thanks for coming out and experiencing Appleseed!

Constructive criticism is always welcome. You certainly aren't the only one who's felt rushed at their first event. Almost everyone has a similar experience. There is a lot of instruction coming at attendees in a short amount of time. The analogy has been made in the past that their first Appleseed is like "Trying to drink from a fire hose." We are essentially squeezing down a weeks worth of instruction into a distilled 2-day weekend. It is rare than anyone can come to an event, absorb and apply all the information, and shoot 210 or better their first time out. The average is 3 events for someone to earn the patch. Some folks do it in two, and others it takes a couple more. It really all depends on what people put into it between events.

Frustration is something that people with a shooting background are more likely to experience versus someone that is new to all of this. A person that is just starting out really doesn't have grand expectations. Someone with experience thinks "I want should get that patch my first time out," right? I know that's what I thought since I pretty much grew up with a .22 in hand, and I know how this can get to you. I had lots of bad habits to break, and being frustrated tends to subconsciously involve muscle tension which makes it even more difficult to shoot accurately.

What we hope and strive for is to give all attendees all the knowledge/tools they need to be able to shoot 4moa. That doesn't mean that you'll get your arms around everthing at the event. The key is to be able to work on these things between events and refine them. Most people have never shot this way before so it does take some practice to get your body used to getting into the positions, finding and adjusting NPOA on target, and then following the six steps to firing the shot. The great thing about all of this is that you can do pretty much all of this on your living room floor.

You may never feel "lazy-boy comfortable" in the positions. The thing you should be searching for is "Stable." (A proper position that includes the steady hold factors) If you do this 2-3 times a week it does start to feel better.  ...and at some point you might even be able to use "comfortable" as a way to describe the position, but it does take some time for your body to get used to it.

It kind of goes without saying, but the folks who take it upon themselves to practice (dry-fire) between their first and second events, ultimately do a lot better the next time out. Not only does it get your body used to it, it gives the instruction some time to sink in. I found I was remembering what the Instructors said as I practiced.. "Elbow under the rifle!" "Relax your support hand" "Follow through" etc. ...and all the puzzle pieces starting locking together for me.  I didn't fire a live round in the 2 months between my first and second event. When I was able to go back, my score on my first AQT had improved 52 points from last time.

It is definitely a challenge and a lot to try to pull off in one weekend (mentally & physically), but it is simply a matter of setting a goal, and doing the work to achieve it next time out. You can do it!

At your particular event, there weren't a lot of additional instructors. That makes it difficult to spend a lot of time with every attendee, but we do our best. When you are able to attend again and you have a question on anything, just flag one of the instructors down and they'll be able to help you out.  As for the other items you mentioned, we do our best to keep make sure folks keep their eyes and ears on. ...and it's never a good idea to eat with dirty hands.

If you're the Facebook type, please come join us there as well: http://www.facebook.com/AppleseedTexas


Hope this helps!

[punkndisorderly]

Thanks for taking the time to respond. It's appreciated.

I'd like to expand on a few things and comment on a few others.

I still think the way Appleseeds are done could be improved upon. I know it's easy for someone not involved to criticize and say "Hey, I know I've never done this, but you should be doing it this way instead". I've got a huge amount of respect for Appleseed and what it's trying to do. Ditto for the Volunteer instructors tasked with implementing the program.

I'll use a pistol class I was at last weekend to try to illustrate what I'm talking about better. For clarity, I'll refer to the Appleseed way (at least as I understand it) as "way A". I'll use the pistol class as "Way B". Way "A" focused on demonstrating a topic, followed by a short period of time for the student to try to translate what they just saw and were told into what they need to do, how they need to position their body, etc. This was followed by a timed excercise to apply the topic. Then we moved onto the next topic. It seemed the goal was exposure to the topic, not getting the student to understand and correctly apply.

Way B started in much the same way. The instructor deomonstrated the topic. Then the class was given an opportunity to dry fire. Then we repeated that excercise several times picking up the speed each time. The instructors walked the line giving positive and negative feedback to each student. After the excercise, the instructor would ask for questions, give anyone having issues some more suggestions to work on. Only after most people had the gist would the class move on to the next exercise. The focus was on getting people to a point where they were doing the excercise correctly enough that they could practice and fine tune at home.

I understand that this may not be procatical in a two day workshop. But to the extent that the time limits could be extended to allow more work on an exercise and more personal instruction before moving on, it would imporve the experience. Peoples scores might imporve faster as tehy wouldn't be picking up bad habits that they carry with them for the day. Perhaps saving the timed AQT's for the last half of day 2? Or encouraging people to split the weekends. Go Saturday only the first time, then come back for another 2 day to polish on Sunday and then put it to use on Sunday. That's what I wish I had done.

Also, I didn't have any expectation on getting rifleman on the first weekend. I actually would have been disappointed if I had. I'm more of a "pistol guy" than a "rifle guy". I've had BRM in the Army, but it was the new marksmanship without focus on sling, NPOA, etc. If I had earned it, I would have been disappointed. That would have meant it was too easy.

As I said, I'll be back. I've been working on what I learned and maybe it'll come together the next time. Wouldn't be surprised if I go for instructor rating later. Mayber there's a boot camp in my future.

[Roy in Tomball]

Joe, Steve and Brett, Thanks for another great shoot! Looking forward to the next one soon.

[sleepy Joe]

Thanks for the comments, my greatest room, is my room for improvement, The other instructors and I are working on more one on one when student-instructor ratio allows. We always want the attendees to get their money's worth and we are perfecting our skills.