Author Topic: What Rifle for an AS Weekend  (Read 1989 times)

Offline maustypsu

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What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« on: June 03, 2011, 02:06:49 AM »
What rifle is best for an Appleseed weekend for someone who would eventually like to qualify as Rifleman?

AR-15
   -  With or without quad rail
Since I have an M&P 15 - an M&P 22
An SKS
AK-47
AK-22
A 10/22
Other .22

Scope
No Scope

I'm interested in opinions.  I've read a bunch and have an idea but would like to hear opinions from others on this site.

Offline 9mm4545

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2011, 08:31:30 AM »
Any of the above will do the job. Some rifles make it easier than others. A semi-auto magazine fed .22 is cheap and effective for initial learning. After getting somewhat proficient with your .22, then break out the centerfire rifles. If your vision will allow it, learning with iron sights is like learning to drive with a stick shift: you can always easily switch to an automatic (or scope) once you have learned the basics. The factory sights on a 10/22 suck so I would recommend replacing them with a set of Tech Sights as it will be much easier to be precise. Same holds true for the SKS and AK variants. The iron sights on AR's are usually good. The rails won't be helpful other than a place to mount a sling swivel. Add a GI sling to whatever you bring and you will be good to go. Good luck!
The American Constitution is remarkable for its simplicity; but can only suffice a people habitually correct in their actions, and would be utterly inadequate to the wants of a different nation.  Change the domestic habits of the Americans, their religious devotion, and their high respect for morality, and it will not be necessary to change a single letter in the Constitution in order to vary the whole form of their government. - Francis Grund 1837

Offline 06en

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2011, 08:41:41 AM »
I'll give ya my .02 ----I believe in telling folks to bring what they own and shoot what they got. If you already own an AR centerfire with a .22 conversion or another AR with didicated .22 upper---that would be a good way to go, because you already own it.

Now in what is "best". That is PURELY subjective. We ARE NOT in an equipment race here in Project Appleseed. Nothing wrong with using a scope if ya need one, but I also tell people that our instruction will give them the fundamentals to hit just about anything they want out to 500 yards/meters using NOTHING more than a sling, iron sights, their own bodies and the rifles that they own.


Offline Lawrence

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2011, 11:40:59 AM »
maustypsu,

If you will send me a personal message on this forum with your mailing address, I will send you the instructions needed to modify your standard Ruger 10/22 into a "Liberty Training Rifle". The LTR concept was specifically developed to make participation in Appleseed economical and is most accommodating to our course of instruction.

Welcome to our program!
Lawrence
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High Point, NC
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 11:42:41 AM by Lawrence »

Offline maustypsu

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2011, 08:33:40 PM »
"Shoot what you own..."

That's my problem, too many choices.  I wouldn't go out and purchase something for just this event but everything I mentioned I either already own or will within the next year anway.

I'd personally prefer to just use one of my AR's in .223 open sight.  I am not much of a 'black rifle' guy and haven't spent much range time with them.  I have hunted my whole life but always used a scope when hunting.  This would be a good chance for me to get more familiar with both open sights and AR's.  But I wasn't sure if shooting something bigger than .22 would be a distraction to others on the range.  I saw a comment or two on that on the site.

I'm looking to attend the Ramseur event in October with a neighbor so plenty of time to make up my mind.

Offline 06en

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2011, 09:06:42 PM »
Quote
But I wasn't sure if shooting something bigger than .22 would be a distraction to others on the range. 
Don't let this stop you...if you want to shoot around 500 rounds of .223 (5.56) over the weekend, I say don't let anyone stop you. It will be a great deal of fun.

Offline TomM1Thumb

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2011, 11:27:23 PM »
Just a thought, Since You have an AR and An AR in 22Lr, take both of those and If you have it a 10/22 with scope or Open sights.

That way You cover all of You bases and Have either a Back-up Rifle or a loaner if need Be.

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Offline Cory Mathis

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 09:01:59 AM »
Just a thought, Since You have an AR and An AR in 22Lr, take both of those and If you have it a 10/22 with scope or Open sights.

That way You cover all of You bases and Have either a Back-up Rifle or a loaner if need Be.

Better Too Much, than too Little. But that is Just Me!

Can't say it any better.  Be prepaired.  Always.

Casper

Offline didactic

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 12:10:29 PM »
 O0 to everything above.

To sum it up:

Detachable-magazine semiauto: Ideal
Tube-fed anything:  Less handy, but it can be coped with.
Manual repeater (bolt, lever, pump):  Absolutely usable, tougher at first on the rapid-fire stages.
Single-shot:  Usable, you'll learn with it just fine, but won't be able to finish the rapid-fire stages to score well (if you care).

Sling:  99% necessary.  A GI-type that can be rigged as loop or hasty is handiest.

Adjustable peep (aperture) sights: Ideal, if your eyes are able to focus on the front sight.
Low-magnification scope: Ideal
Open sights:  Less than ideal, but can be coped with if your eyes are able to focus on the front sight.
High-magnification scope: Usable, but might be unhandy.
Non-magnifying red-dot or reflex sight: Usable, not quite as precise as peep sight or magnifying scope.

.22 Long Rifle:  Ideal, all you need for the first appleseed, or any time at the 25 meter distance.
.22 mag, .17HMR, 17mach2:  Perfectly usable, but more costly than you need.
Any centerfire, up to 8mm/.32 caliber:  Perfectly usable but costly to feed.  A FEW venues are rimfire-only.  Not needed for 25 meter shooting.  Will be needed for full-distance shooting.  Full-distance is available at some Appleseed venues.  Shooters progressing well will be invited to the full-distance range if conditions allow.

Just one man's $0.02.

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« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 12:15:26 PM by didactic »
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Offline Wade

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2011, 10:19:40 PM »
O0 to everything above.

To sum it up:

Detachable-magazine semiauto: Ideal
Tube-fed anything:  Less handy, but it can be coped with.
Manual repeater (bolt, lever, pump):  Absolutely usable, tougher at first on the rapid-fire stages.
Single-shot:  Usable, you'll learn with it just fine, but won't be able to finish the rapid-fire stages to score well (if you care).

Sling:  99% necessary.  A GI-type that can be rigged as loop or hasty is handiest.

Adjustable peep (aperture) sights: Ideal, if your eyes are able to focus on the front sight.
Low-magnification scope: Ideal
Open sights:  Less than ideal, but can be coped with if your eyes are able to focus on the front sight.
High-magnification scope: Usable, but might be unhandy.
Non-magnifying red-dot or reflex sight: Usable, not quite as precise as peep sight or magnifying scope.

.22 Long Rifle:  Ideal, all you need for the first appleseed, or any time at the 25 meter distance.
.22 mag, .17HMR, 17mach2:  Perfectly usable, but more costly than you need.
Any centerfire, up to 8mm/.32 caliber:  Perfectly usable but costly to feed.  A FEW venues are rimfire-only.  Not needed for 25 meter shooting.  Will be needed for full-distance shooting.  Full-distance is available at some Appleseed venues.  Shooters progressing well will be invited to the full-distance range if conditions allow.

Just one man's $0.02.

Come!  Learn!  Enjoy!  Help us bail!
What he said ,,,also If I remember correctly at Deviila 11/07 there where more center fire rifles then rimfire ,,but ammo cost less then ,,,

Wade
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 10:21:59 PM by Wade »
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Offline maustypsu

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2011, 06:31:34 PM »
Thanks for the input.  I'll be at Ramseur so I know a full range will be available.  In High School they used to call me The Boyscout because I'm always prepared.  I guess I could bring two .223's and two .22's and see how the event goes.  I have a great shooting but poorly functioning Thompson Center .22 Classic.  The bolt seems to hang up on the magazine, almost like the magazine is too long or seated in too far.  If I can get T/C or a gunsmith to straighten that out for me, it will make an easy choice for my primary AS gun.

I'm actually on the SKS bandwagon right now.  I have a few and love them all.  Shoot them more than my AR's and just picked up a few new ones.  At the moment I don't have one that I care to mess with enough to make it the LTR but who knows what the next couple of months hold.

From reading the posts and the Appleseed site it seems like the mission would be best served if I spent my time recruiting folks to help fill up the firing line than worrying about what gun to bring.  But it's still fun to chat about and I appreciate the info from folks who have been there.

Offline Cory Mathis

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2011, 07:54:29 PM »
7th stepping already and he hasn't even been to an AS.  Sign him up.

Casper

Offline dwarven1

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2011, 07:07:37 AM »
I have a great shooting but poorly functioning Thompson Center .22 Classic.  The bolt seems to hang up on the magazine, almost like the magazine is too long or seated in too far.  If I can get T/C or a gunsmith to straighten that out for me, it will make an easy choice for my primary AS gun.

Leave the TC home unless you can get it fixed AND have the chance to run a thousand rounds through it FIRST.

Seriously... by far the most important qualification for a rifle at an Appleseed Shoot is that it be reliable. If you're busy trying to get your rifle to shoot right, then you are NOT paying attention to the instruction. I've seen this time and time again - I now have the patience to let a shooter futz with a piece of junk for about two strings... and then I stick a loaner 10/22 in his hands that I know works right.  &)

Whatever you bring, make sure you can run several hundred rounds through it with no malfunctions. There's nothing like an Appleseed Shoot to discover the weak spots in your rifle and your equipment.  !@#)
Unhappy it is ... to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast, and that the once happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by slaves. Sad alternative! But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?

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Offline maustypsu

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2011, 12:36:06 PM »

.22 Long Rifle:  Ideal, all you need for the first appleseed, or any time at the 25 meter distance.

Any centerfire, up to 8mm/.32 caliber:  Perfectly usable but costly to feed.  Will be needed for full-distance shooting. 

This will have to be what I noodle on before I come.  The balance between getting the instruction and comfort level on the gun I'll be using later for long distance or starting with the .22 and then transferring the skills to the centerfire. 

I've got time since I can't attend until the Oct 8-9th weekend.  "Lawrence" sent me the instructions for turning the 10/22 into the LTR.  If I can get some range time with that after mods then perhaps I'll start there.  Is it possible to qualify for rifleman at your first AS?  Can it be done at 25 meters or does it require longer shots as well?  Or should I just forget about that?

Offline Cory Mathis

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2011, 09:23:12 PM »
You can qualify rifleman at 25 meters sir.  Remeber 4 MOA is 4 MOA.  One inch at 25 meters (4 MOA) is like hitting a 20 inch target at 500 (4 MOA).  I find that the centerfire rifle (AR 15) shoots better than any of the 22LR's I have.

Casper

Offline dwarven1

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2011, 11:16:09 PM »
Is it possible to qualify for rifleman at your first AS?

It's been done - I've seen it. Heck, I've seen it done at a "Mini" - on the first AQT. (He's a Red Hat now...)
Unhappy it is ... to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast, and that the once happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by slaves. Sad alternative! But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?

GEORGE WASHINGTON

Offline CplTurner

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2011, 08:02:05 PM »
Is it possible to qualify for rifleman at your first AS?

It's been done - I've seen it. Heck, I've seen it done at a "Mini" - on the first AQT. (He's a Red Hat now...)

Can definately be done... even in the snow  8)  Look forward to meeting you this weekend!

Allen
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Offline didactic

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2011, 08:25:04 AM »
Quote
The balance between getting the instruction and comfort level on the gun I'll be using later for long distance or starting with the .22 and then transferring the skills to the centerfire. 


There is no "wrong" answer there, but the skills WILL transfer.

Quote
Leave the TC home unless you can get it fixed AND have the chance to run a thousand rounds through it FIRST.

Seriously... by far the most important qualification for a rifle at an Appleseed Shoot is that it be reliable. If you're busy trying to get your rifle to shoot right, then you are NOT paying attention to the instruction.

Absolutely right here.  Well, maybe the thousand rounds aren't strictly necessary, but bringing a rifle with known functioning problems is asking for a high frustration level.  Get it fixed or don't bring that one.

G'luck and welcome!
"If not us, who?  If not now, when?"  Ronald W. Reagan

Offline dwarven1

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2011, 11:28:18 AM »
Quote
The balance between getting the instruction and comfort level on the gun I'll be using later for long distance or starting with the .22 and then transferring the skills to the centerfire. 


There is no "wrong" answer there, but the skills WILL transfer.

Quote
Leave the TC home unless you can get it fixed AND have the chance to run a thousand rounds through it FIRST.

Seriously... by far the most important qualification for a rifle at an Appleseed Shoot is that it be reliable. If you're busy trying to get your rifle to shoot right, then you are NOT paying attention to the instruction.

Absolutely right here.  Well, maybe the thousand rounds aren't strictly necessary, but bringing a rifle with known functioning problems is asking for a high frustration level.  Get it fixed or don't bring that one.

G'luck and welcome!

I say a thousand rounds because that's typical of the round count they'll see up here... and if it can't handle 1000 rounds without breaking down, that's a pretty good indicator that it's not going to stand up to an Appleseed.
Unhappy it is ... to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast, and that the once happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by slaves. Sad alternative! But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?

GEORGE WASHINGTON

Offline maustypsu

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Re: What Rifle for an AS Weekend
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2011, 10:37:10 PM »
Thanks, guys.  Yeah, I absolutely would not have brought a rifle that I had function problems with but if it could have been fixed and reliably performed it was a great shooter.

I contacted T/C about sending it back to get corrected.  Turns out they are currently not making .22's.  They had a persistant issue and instead of attempting to repair they will trade you a NEW T/C rifle out of a pretty good selection of choices when you return your old T/C .22 with functioning problems.  So a new Venture will be heading my way!!!

Good excuse to buy a new semi-auto .22!