Author Topic: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday  (Read 1302 times)

Offline BrownBessEd

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This was not at the Appleseed event, but at the club on the same day.

http://www.daily-chronicle.com/2011/05/09/teen-accidentally-shoots-self-at-sportsmens-club/awixulr/

The DeKalb Daily Chronicle
"WATERMAN - A Woodridge teen was injured Saturday at a local sportsmen's club after accidentally shooting himself in the leg.

DeKalb County Sheriff Roger Scott said the 15-year-old male was target shooting on a pistol range with his father when the incident occurred around 4:45 p.m. Saturday at the Aurora Sportsmen's Club near Waterman.

Scott said the teen was
setting the gun back in his holster when it discharged. The bullet entered and exited through his right thigh. He was taken by ambulance to Kishwaukee Community Hospital, where he was treated and released.

Police determined the shooting was accidental."

 

Offline Ratchett

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2011, 12:27:08 PM »
Needs an Appleseed---Finger off the trigger.... and all

Thanks for sharing BBE!!
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Offline dugjeep

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2011, 12:41:11 PM »
we must of all been in the riflemans bubble because I didnt hear or see any of this.

Offline Gumballhead

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2011, 01:14:45 PM »
we must of all been in the riflemans bubble because I didnt hear or see any of this.
+1 on this...I don't remember any emergency crews, nor any info from the RSO @ the range.  We were far from that action, but we could see the entrance, and I would have noticed flashing lights, and rushing people.

Maybe when he heals, we can get him to an AS, so he can learn what he needs?

Ewald

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2011, 05:04:48 PM »
I was with a few of ASC's High Power shooters on Sunday. They had been on the range Saturday and mentioned nothing of note. According to the article the incident happened late in the day. My guess is it happened a bit later than 4:45 as reported, or could of been one of those "Oh crud, now what?" delayed calls to 911.

Something to keep in mind for all of us. A person from the Chicago suburb of Woodridge would normally expect an ambulance to arrive in 3-5 minutes from the time a call is placed to Dispatch. In Waterman the closest full time EMT crew is likely eight miles away over questionable roads. The nearest hospital is 14 miles back the same direction. There can be quite a delay from deployment to care rendered. One needs to be prepared for the time between.

I find the incident sad. When I went through an orientation at ASC last summer, they emphasized that in their 50 plus year history, they had never had an injury due to a negligent discharge. In order to open carry on the range, members had to meet with a senior RSO who would judge if they were experience enough draw and holster safely.

Something broke down somewhere. We must be ever vigilant.


Offline dugjeep

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2011, 07:59:06 PM »
i keep a pretty decent gun wound first aid kit in my bag,  as long as its not a head shot I could keep somebody from bleeding out until help arrives.

Offline 2 clicks low

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2011, 08:26:26 PM »
Makes me think that we need to add first aid to instructor training.
I haven't had much since boy scouts. I remember all of it but we didn't cover gun shots.

Dugjeep, what's in the kit? And where can I learn how to use it? Red Cross?

2cl
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Offline techres

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2011, 08:33:04 PM »
Makes me think that we need to add first aid to instructor training.
I haven't had much since boy scouts. I remember all of it but we didn't cover gun shots.

Dugjeep, what's in the kit? And where can I learn how to use it? Red Cross?

2cl

We have done this in Indiana with blow out kits at events and part of the brief is making sure we know where the kit is.  We have tried 100% first aid training, but are not there yet.  The class I took could be best described as "keep them from bleeding out in the time the ambulance takes to get there". 

IL has some very strong resources in your team for first aid, I bet they can get you all squared away.

Oh, and take the kit with you to the gun shows too...
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Offline mtmisfit

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2011, 08:42:14 PM »
i keep a pretty decent gun wound first aid kit in my bag,  as long as its not a head shot I could keep somebody from bleeding out until help arrives.

Must be one hell of a kit and some mad skills to make that statement. Your heart circulates the entire volume of blood in your body in 200 beats. Major arterial bleed in the torso and there's not much outside of an operating room that's gonna be effective.

I carry a fairly extensive jump kit, an AED, a radio and a cell phone. Life flight is at least 45 minutes out, ALS is 30 plus minutes one way.

Best course of action is to prevent the injury in the first place.

Offline dugjeep

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2011, 09:12:00 PM »
amazon has a kit called the mollie field kit, the knowledge i got from the marines.  theres a book called emergency war surgery it suppose to be pretty good.  The gear  is enough to stop bleeds, untill help arrives dehydration stuff like that.  My mother inlaw is a nurse I can get some gear from her you want.

Offline Wheeler44

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2011, 10:13:36 PM »
i keep a pretty decent gun wound first aid kit in my bag,  as long as its not a head shot I could keep somebody from bleeding out until help arrives.

Must be one hell of a kit and some mad skills to make that statement. Your heart circulates the entire volume of blood in your body in 200 beats. Major arterial bleed in the torso and there's not much outside of an operating room that's gonna be effective.

I carry a fairly extensive jump kit, an AED, a radio and a cell phone. Life flight is at least 45 minutes out, ALS is 30 plus minutes one way.

Best course of action is to prevent the injury in the first place.
This...........

Having been the first responder to a gunfight, sometimes there's not much that you can do.....I mean you do what you can, but it ain't enough.....I recommend industrial first aid to everybody and EMS training for those that want/need it.

W44
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Offline Jungle George

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2011, 10:31:18 PM »
Amen, Mtmisfit  prevention is the best medicine!!  If you get a heart wound, decending aorta and even a femoral artery chances of survival are slim.  We had a 14 year old girl get shot by a 22lr years ago she had seven holes inside her chest cavity from one shot.  The bullet bounced around her ribcage till it run out of energy.
    You can bleed out of a femoral artery wound enough blood inside your thigh, to go into shock and die, without losing any blood on the outside.
    Having said that, get a good first aid kit, a blowout kit for lung wounds, and some training if you don't have any.

JG
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Gravy

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2011, 12:01:58 AM »
I'm sorry to hear of the incident.  ASC requires you to be either certified to draw (meaning you've been instructed and qualified), or you're being supervised by someone who is qualified (i.e. being trained).  Either way, there was a break-down of safety procedures somehow.  Tragic.

At least it highlights the need to be prepared to handle emergencies and has caused us to think about it.  We should all get some sort of training and have some sort of emergency first aid even without AS in mind.  As responsible gun owners/shooters, it comes with the territory.  Now add in our participation with AS and it takes on even more importance.

I took this course from Medical Corps last year and highly recommend it if you can get in (it looks like both events for 2011 are booked).
http://www.medicalcorps.org/class.htm
There was a good deal of info/training on treating gunshot wounds under the premise that professional medical response was unavailable (i.e. you're on your own - what should you do?).  There was also a lot of great info and training on other medical situations unrelated to gunshot wounds.  I really liked Chuck Fenwick and his staff.  Knowing how many of you Appleseeders are, I think you all would really enjoy his class.  It's probably the coolest training I've ever done.

Another course by Spartan Tactical was offered locally and I found it worthwhile.  It was directed primarily for LE who may have to address gunshot wounds and other traumas before EMT arrives, but it was applicable for civilians also.  It was all under the premise that you do what you can until professional medical assistance is attained.
http://www.teamspartan.com/teamspartan_firearms_training_EMERGENCY_SELF_AID_FOR_TRAUMA_INJURIES.htm

I've also done basic Red Cross training and think everyone should at least go to one of these, even if you don't shoot.  They teach basics that everyone should know.

Here's my advise on medical kits for AS, based on what I've learned.  Beyond your normal band-aids, pads and wraps, I carry (and suggest you all consider buying) the following:
Touniquet - CAT = combat action tourniquet; only way to attempt to stop arterial bleeding.  Despite what you may have heard, limbs are good for 6-8 hours under a tourniquet if you know how to use it.  It will buy you enough time to get professional attention.
Isreali Battle Dressing - pressure wrap for severe bleeding (non-arterial)
ARS Needle - for lung wounds/decompression
Quickclot/Celox - despite different opinions about effects of Quickclot entering the bloodstream, if you need to stop or control bleeding in an emergency, I'd rather have it and use it than not have it and bleed to death.
These are all easy to get and easy to carry in a first-aid kit.  Of course, you need training if you are going to attempt to use them on others. 

Offline 2 clicks low

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2011, 10:35:29 AM »
FEARLESS LEADERS, EEL, PAPPY, G69


Is it time to have a "FIRST AID BOOTCAMP"? Gravy's course is full, but if we put together a group they might come. Or howabout the red cross? Any MD's, RN's, EMT's willing to teach? Or ?
 

2cl

« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 10:38:49 AM by 2 clicks low »
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Offline nyrasgt

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2011, 12:55:51 PM »
Two opportunities in northeast NY (Saratoga/Hudson Falls area) - Vt, NH, et cetera, et cetera...
   
1.  Sunday, 29 May (Sunday of Mem Day Wkend...) @ Saraspa R&GC, Greenfield Center, NY (outside Saratoga Springs), and
2.  Sunday, 5 June @ Hudson Falls F&GC.

Both classes appx 1p - 5p.
Both classes will be CPR/AED/Trauma First Aid, taught by a paramedic friend, Chris Norton, and myself.
Each class will cost $10 (4 of which is the cost of the AHA CPR card), appx 10% of usual cost...
Come one, come all - will do others in the fall.
Excelsior,
madMark
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Offline PHenry

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2011, 01:37:38 PM »
Quote
Scott said the teen was setting the gun back in his holster when it discharged.

Really. While I am not unfeeling regarding the boy's injury, I do take issue with the LEO's statement, as it would tend to make it seem as though the pistol fired a round of its own volition - something we all know is very unlikely. While I was not there, and could not know for certain, I am suspecting that something depressed the trigger on the pistol. What we do know for certain is that the pistol was loaded and the muzzle pointed in an unsafe direction.

I would suggest that we all take this as an example of what can happen in a fraction of a second when safety rules are violated and re-double our own efforts to make certain that is never happens on an AS firing line.

PH
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Offline BrownBessEd

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2011, 10:27:04 PM »
I just signed up for an American Red Cross First Aid/CPR class in June in St. Charles.  www.redcross.org.

I like the idea of someone (2ClicksLow, for instance) becoming a certified First Aid instructor.  Start with the Red Cross--although some of the courses Gravy referenced look pretty interesting.


6/15/11: the new Red Cross basic first aid course is VERY LIGHT--no splints, no hands on, just the very basics.  The CPR & AED was OK, at least there was some hands-on practice.  Download the first aid manual for free, link below.  Classroom does NOT cover all the topics in the manual, or at least mine did not.
http://editiondigital.net/publication/?i=64159
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 12:16:41 AM by BrownBessEd »

Offline EEL

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2011, 11:02:24 PM »
I was out at ASC today and spoke with the RSO.  He relayed that the teen wasn't cleared to draw from holster (wasn't wearing one), so he was pretending to put the pistol back in a non-existent holster and then "draw" it. 

Sad.  Preventable.  Stupid.

Do not fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have war......Let it start here.

Offline 2 clicks low

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Re: Non-appleseed Youth accidently shoots self at ASC on Saturday
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2011, 09:28:51 AM »
I just signed up for an American Red Cross First Aid/CPR class in June in St. Charles.  www.redcross.org.

I like the idea of someone (2ClicksLow, for instance) becoming a certified First Aid instructor.  Start with the Red Cross--although some of the courses Gravy referenced look pretty interesting.

BBE,
Thanks for the vote of confidence but I am not the one to teach this course.

It is too important a task for someone who will only have "book larnin". This needs to be taught by a pro with experiance.

I however will be the first to sign up for this course.

2cl
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