SKS accuracy?

[nmmi9100]

when the ammo was cheap the SKS was a good way to go, but you cannot pick up reload-able brass like you can with .223 and the projectile for 7.62 x 39 will cost as much as the 3 components of .223 + the AR is so easy to work on

No offence, but I don't exactly have $1,000 for an AR.

You don't need $1000 for an AR.  There are plenty to be had for about $700.  Not that I like ARs...I keep a couple around for the wife and kids...

That said, the cost of cheap SKS's has past.  I remember the day when you could get 5 chinese SKS's for $100.  I bought my Yugo SKS for $100, delivered.  With the price SKS's escalating over $250, and field grade CMP Garands remaining at $495, the Garand is a lot more rifle for the money, in my opinion.  Just loaded up 200 rounds of 30-06 last night.  Including brass wear, they cost me $0.33 per round to load.  145 grain Privi FMJBT bullets, Varget powder, and CCI#34 primers.

More power, flatter shooting, more accurate, more precise sight adjustments, better trigger, and better sight radius than any SKS.  The CMP Garand is still the best battle rifle deal out there.

-David
Edgewood, NM

[Old Dog]

You'll run across folks now and then that want to throw their "time" in there as a cost of reloading.  However, anyone who really wants to learn their rifle, learn their shooting and improve shouldn't mind the time it takes to do the things to prepare them for shooting.  Whether it's cleaning, reloading, inspecting parts, etc.

You can "make" reloads that will change your rifle from a "yeah, I can hit a deer at 100 yds" into a "yes, which eye would you like me to hit."  That may sound extreme and with some rifles/cartridges it might be but I've seen changes to this degree in rifles just from finding the reload your rifle "likes" best.  Some are "finicky" and some aren't.

By the way, the SKS should be an excellent deer rifle.  You can buy commercial ammo for it (I've seen Remington soft points) for hunting purposes and it should be a dandly little "brush" gun.  Sort of like a semi auto 30-30 Winchester.

[nmmi9100]

Old Dog:

Dry F-ing and handloading = what you do when you can't get to the range.  I don't count either as a cost.  Handloading is a great way to relax...

The sad rear half of TRW 641861 sits in front of me on my desk.  Destroying these magnificent rifles was TREASON!  I should have been able to buy one from CMP...instead I had to pay LRB to build me one out of the parts due to an ATF determination and a piece of metal on the receiver smaller than a dime...

-David
Edgewood, NM

[George63]

   Sort of like a semi auto 30-30 Winchester.

7.62 x 39 and 30-30 are ballistic twins, If you want to hunt deer definitely choose the sks over the AR but do not use the FMJ surplus, I did run across a 223 projectile optimized for deer though a 70 gr round nose, supposed to be decent to 250 yds

[wcmartin1]

   Sort of like a semi auto 30-30 Winchester.

7.62 x 39 and 30-30 are ballistic twins, If you want to hunt deer definitely choose the sks over the AR but do not use the FMJ surplus, I did run across a 223 projectile optimized for deer though a 70 gr round nose, supposed to be decent to 250 yds

My buddy, Rick, has killed several deer with his SKS using 125 gr softpoints from Barnaul (Brown Bear, Silver Bear, Golden Bear) up to about 150 yards - dropped 'em pretty quick with heart and/or lung shots.

[Nickle]

I've seen people get pretty consistent hits at 600 yards with SKSes at Jericho, so certainly good enough for Appleseed work.

He was using Bosnian Mil Surp ammo (and it was corrosive). That actually was my SKS that the shooter borrowed. That ammo shoots well under 4 MOA.

[tittiger]

I have a Soviet translation by a U.S. Army Major that stated the SKS, when fired by an expert shooter should group 4 shots within a 15 cm circle at 100 meters. If one of the 4 shots is way out it should be disregarded. If it doesn't group within 15 cm the second time it should be returned to the arms depot for repair. FYI.

FYI according to Appleseed IMC math     and my handy calculator that's  6 MOA, with probably not the best ammo.

[mac66]

   Sort of like a semi auto 30-30 Winchester.

7.62 x 39 and 30-30 are ballistic twins, If you want to hunt deer definitely choose the sks over the AR but do not use the FMJ surplus, I did run across a 223 projectile optimized for deer though a 70 gr round nose, supposed to be decent to 250 yds

On paper they may be twins, in the real world of deer hunting, a 123 gr 7.62x39 bullet doesn't hold a candle to a 150 or 170 gr. 30-30 on deer. I've shot many deer with both. No contest.

Getting back to the thread however, I am intrigued in using an SKS. I have 5 of them (Chinese, Russion, Albanian, Yugo and a short paratrooper type Chinese) all bought back when they were cheap. Seriously considering on working my $69 chinese SKS into a LTR. I already have all kinds of stocks for it.  A set of Tech Sights and a proper sling would get me on target I think.

[tittiger]

Won't that make you a criminal in the "land of the free"? 

Can someone explain those  god forsaken law about parts counts in English?

[mac66]

Won't that make you a criminal in the "land of the free"? 

Can someone explain those  god forsaken law about parts counts in English?

The parts count really only applies to making an imported firearm into one that is banned from importation. The SKS doesn't have any non-importable features, no detachable magazine, no pistol grip or flash hider, folding or collapsible stocks. So swapping a sight or a conventional stock onto it does not come into play. Putting a pistol grip stock, flash hider, detachable mag etc do come into play but since most of those parts are US made they are compliant.

Short version, if you want to make your SKS into an "assault rifle" just make sure you use US (Tapco)  parts. If you simply want to make it into a LTR by swapping sights and slings or perhaps a stock, you are good to go since those don't come into the import thing. Most of those are US made anyway.

[Old Dog]

SKS loads (if you reload) from the Hogden powder site

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

some of the 150 grain loads are over 2100 fps.  That's 100 to 300 fps slower than the 30-30 with the 150 grain bullets (remember, the 7.62X39 usually won't get get accuracy out of .308 diameter bullets, but needs the slightly larger .312 diameter bullets - or so I've read).

[mac66]

If anything, I am now tempted to take my SKSs to the range and try some of the many types of ammo I have picked up but rarely shot over the last 25 years.

[ItsanSKS]

Won't that make you a criminal in the "land of the free"? 

Can someone explain those  god forsaken law about parts counts in English?

Unfortunately, there is no easy explanation of the law in question, which is Title 18 USC, Section 922(R)

This is the best answer that I've found so far:

What modifications can I do to my imported fixed-magazine SKS Carbine without violating Title 18 USC § 922(r)?

As long as your SKS Carbine contains more than ten imported parts, the answer is: "Not very much". Some guidance can be gleaned from a letter to the NRA from ATF Technology Branch, printed in the NRA magazine, American Rifleman May, 1994. It specifically mentions the following the following modifications of an standard SKS Carbine would not be violations of Title 18 USC § 922(r):

1.      Replace the existing stock and handguard with a non-folding wooden or synthetic stock having either a Monte Carlo or thumbhole design. [See the discussion of pistol grips and thumbhole stocks.]

2.      Attach a muzzle mounted recoil compensator, provided that the device is not also designed as a flash suppressor.

3.      Replace the existing 10 round magazine with a fixed 5 round magazine or install a block in the well of the 10 round fixed magazine to limit its capacity to 5 rounds.

4.      Replace the existing receiver cover with a cover having a telescopic sight based and/or rings.

5.      Replace the front and/or rear sight or install an ambidextrous safety.

Now, if you intend to do other modification than those listed above, (such as detachable magazines) then you will have to ensure that your conforms to 922(r), by playing the '10 or less game'. 

By adding a detachable magazine to the SKS, you have converted it from a 'sporting arm', to an 'assault weapon'.  EVEN THOUGH THE AWB EXPIRED, you still must comply with 922(r).  A good FAQ on this can be found here: http://www.victorinc.com/SKS-FAQ.html#_Toc167103936

[techres]

You could also use this parts calculator too:

http://jobson.us/922r/

[sur+rifle]

My first Rifleman score with a centerfire was done with a Yugo SKS using brown bear ammo.  I went on to use this out to 400 yards during a boot camp.  Out of the box, it is better than 4 MOA even with < 20 cent ammo. 

But here is a trick suggested by a fellow appleseeder during a campfire chat.  Weigh each round (not the components, the entire round) and group them into batches by weight.  I usually start with 1000 rounds and end up with 3 batches.  This tends to get rid of any "fliers" (usually find about 3 out of 1000 rounds) and my experience is that the smaller batches shoot about 1/2 MOA better.  I am not sure what "variance" it is capturing; probably in the bullets?  One of these days I'll get ambitious and pull a couple rounds from each batch, break them into components, and see what is varying.

The SKS also makes a nice complement to an mini, AR, Garand, or M1A.  Why? Because it gives you practice with using a different sight alignment/picture system.  If you only practice with one sight system, it "feels" weird when you shoot a rifle with a different system.  So I like to alternate some practice sessions between my SKS (notch) and mini 30 (scoped and peep) both using 7.62X39 ammo.

Net, don't be afraid to experiment with the 'lowly' SKS.  It is a great rifle!