**wanted** LTR Advice!

[Rusty Mossbolt]

Hey there Appleseeders,
   
   Just registered for the Marion shoot, very excited for my second shoot, and I think I have at least 3 rookies tagging along. I am going to the gun show here in Lucas county next weekend to find my new M1A, I know it will be there on someone's shoulder waiting to sell it to me... anyway, I will be looking for a few LTR's and this is where I need some advice or motivation.
   I do have a new stock Mossberg 702 that my wife used in G-Berg last fall. I know it was not her, but the rifle was everywhere and inconsistent would be an understatement. I see now that people are building them up into LTR's. I was planning to sell it to fund a 795 and/or 10/22, that debate still rages on in my head too.
   So, has anyone here done up a 702 and how do you like it?
   Also, what is the consensus vote on the 795 vs. 10/22 war?

   Thanks ahead for any response, and I will see everyone on the line at Marion!

      ~Rusty Mossbolt

[GoldFish]

Hey there Rusty!  Glad to see you signed up for your second shoot, in Marion.  
I personally have never used a Mossberg 702, but I have used Marlin 795's and Ruger 10/22's quite extensively.  As far as information about the Marlin 795, you going to find an insane amount of it here:  http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=10883.0
I prefer the 10/22 for several reasons.  I prefer the mounting base, which is an included Weaver style base, versus the Dovetail style groove on the 795.  There are far more aftermarket products for the 10/22 than for the 795; however, these all cost $$$.  If you're looking for an AS ready rifle, right out of the box, then the Marlin is probably your best option.  Dunham's stores are currently selling the Marlin 795 for a price of $ 105, after the mail-in rebate.  However, here's another option:  http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=15075.0  
When you say the 10/22 vs. 795 war, you certainly do mean war, because some people have very strong opinions about which rifle you should use.
I agree with your choice in going to buy an M1A...because as one very wise AS Instructor says often, "Every American should own a .30 caliber semi-auto rifle."

My .02.

Fire away with any other questions you have...


So Others May Live,
---GF

[Wheeler44]

Spend a little time with the 702 plinkster...Mine is somewhat picky about ammo. But it will shoot 2 MOA groups all day long with ammo that it likes.  It took a while to work out a couple of small issues, then it went to over a dozen shoots without problems..My wife likes it so much, she claimed it for her own.

[marrandy]

I don't know anything about a war.  That's a bit extreme for me.

But as he said below, for $105 on the Marlin 795, you get:-

1)   A rifle that can put 5 shots into a quarter, some people claim a dime, out of the box.

2)   It comes with a nice 10 round protuding magazine.  Its not drop free, but easy to grip.  Buy Two more mags for Appleseed.  Every shoot I have been on, I have seen multiple  people struggle (aka waste time and get frustrated) trying to insert the 10-22 magazine.  I have even seen them drop out onto the ground as they were not all the way in.

3)   The mag release is nice and large and just behind the magazine on the right.  The standard 10-22...ughh.

4)   It has an automatic hold open on magazine empty.  Eject the magazine, put a new one in and flick the mag release downwards.  The bolt slams forward picking up the new round..done.

5)   It comes with sling mounts.

The bad.

a)   Its light.  But most .22LR's are.

b)   The stock is a little flimsy.  But its not bad.

c)   Fixed stock,  So you can't adjust for different sized people.  The standard ruger 10-22 is the same.

d)   You need to buy a tech sight.  Same for the Ruger 10-22.


From what I have heard over the past Two years, the Ruger 10-22 is $250 + and then you need to buy more to bring it up to the level of the Marlin.  Even if you ignore the upgrades, you can buy Two Marlin 795's with Two extra mags for each, compared to the price of one 10-22 and then some.

Some people call the Marlin a   'throwaway'  rifle.  But there are a ton of people both in and outside Appleseed that have over 20,000 rounds on their rifles, and they are still going strong.

In the end, its up to you.

Me, I bought Two Marlin 795's.  I put tech sights ($60) on one and a BSA sweet 22 3-9x40mm sight ($35.97) on the other.  I bought 4 extra mags ($11.00 each).

That's about $370 total.  Oh, and add Two slings plus uncle mikes QD swivels at $10 pr. so $410 plus S/H.

I'm sure other people will jump in.

Dunham's stores are currently selling the Marlin 795 for a price of $ 105, after the mail-in rebate.
---GF

[Ratchett]

Rusty,

Probably will be a matter of preference for shooter. I suggest person who would use rifle the most accompany and get a bit of a feel for both to help decide. Personally, I like the 10/22. Vance's (Columbus) and Buckeye Outdoor (Hebron) have the 10/22s on sale right now for $190 (more $$$ than Marlin). It appears Ruger has done some work on the bolt release as the new models (just bought one last Fri) are not as hard or frustrating to release as older models. As for magazines, both models come with only one from factory. Marlin mags can be quite pricey if you are not careful and look online for good price. I have seen them as high as $30, thanks to SamD, I got some for $15. Unfortunately do not remember where now, CDNN maybe. Ruger is same way but I see them on sale more often---might be I just notice them more.

I have 3 10/22s ( in different stocks) and a Marlin 795 would use any of them for Appleseed.

Hope to meet you on the trail sometime! Have fun in Marion.

In His Grip,
Ratchett

[Pvt.Joker]

Dano boiled it down nicely this past weekend. He an I have a good-natured Ford vs. Chevy-style religious war going over this, with me in the Marlin camp.
Quoth Dano:
"Pvt.Joker likes the Marlin 795, but he likes to work on guns. If you like to shoot them, get a Ruger."
Now, I like to shoot them, too. But it does seem to be true that the Marlin is more sensitive to any shortfalls in maintenance than the Ruger.
That being said, my Marlin with TechSights will shoot a solid Rifleman's score on demand. It only failed me once. Ask Cowgirl Ducky!

[Rusty Mossbolt]

Wow, that did not take long!
   
   Thanks for all of the info. So what I gather is;

   ~For less than $100 I should be able to bring the 702 I already own up to LTR standards, if I don't like it, it will be my loaner/trainer for my yet to be of age daughters, and any soon to be rifle owning guests to AS. (Wheeler, anything further on the "work out a couple of small issues" comment? I don't mind taking the time to, in my opinion, salvage it and keep it on the firing line for someone else. It's LOP is way to short for me.)

   ~For about $200 I should be able to have a very nice, new 795 LTR, if I don't like it, same result applies. This seems the best economical choice as it has proven its worth and reliability at AS. The "lack of aftermarket stuff" argument does not hold water for me as the only accessories I am looking for are the sling, sling mounts, extra mags, and Tech sights.

   ~For just under $400 and some filing and drilling, a new 10/22 LTR.

   ~If I end up building three LTR's of different make's and don't like any of them,  I'll just have three ready to go LTR's as loaners that will fit more people, I'll give them better hearing protection for the line, and pull out my .30cal.

   Thanks again for such a quick response, any late comers to the thread, I am still very willing to listen!

   Rusty Mossbolt

P.S.    While waiting my turn to use the computer this morning I was leafing through the new Shotgun News and what do I see for the first time, well, ever? A man ( David M. Fortier I presume ) in full color photo's page 20 and 22, using  a G.I Sling! And, get this... PROPERLY!!! I know a lot of you read SGN so check it out and those members of the instructor cadre may want to show off to your classes this year? He has to be an Appleseeder!

[marrandy]

Marlin 10 round magazines.  Note:  Marlin is owned by Remington now.

Try googling      marlin mag 71902   or   71902 10 Shot

Also try searching under this code.    MGMAR707135

There is usually, somewhere down the page, an entry that says something like   'from $x at y stores'  that's usually worth clicking on as it gives you a list of stores with prices.

Prices change all the time so you will have to just try and find a deal.

I bought 2 extra for each rifle.  Used as 2 + 8  and then a spare that often is used for either 5 or 10 rounds on the course.

Good luck and welcome to the program.

[wcmartin1]

Marlin 795 mags - 14 FRNs @ CDNN - http://www.cdnninvestments.com/mabopre88au2.html

[posterboy]

Rusty

since I know you already .....I'll certainly give you my 2cents

795 ..is cheaper for sure, Accurate plenty enough, almost LTR ready ( Minus Tech sights, Sling swivels and extra mags) If this will be a AQT machine than it will suit you fine.

10/22...more $ but it is better because of it's platform flexibility. However you have to get all the after market stuff that the 795 comes with..

It comes down to if you want to spend the money or not. I have both btw..if you want to try 'em come back to Gibsonburg 

As for the m1a ..look for a used "loaded' model. I know how well you shoot and you'll appreciate the better barrel, NM front sight/ rear aperture and nice trigger. I see many around 1200-1400 range on various boards.


hope to see you soon and thanks for taking the 7th step...but then again you ARE a rifleman and you were even before you stepped on the firing line last year at G'Burg. 

pb

[Rusty Mossbolt]

   Good to hear from you PB, thanks for the comp's and you will see me again at G'burg this year, with friends, that's a promise! Easter weekend was a no go with the family but I had to do an April shoot for history's sake . Marion here I come.

   I am going ahead w/ the 702 project since I already have the rifle so Tech Sights are on the way. I'll keep you all posted how that turns out and I'm 95% sure I am going to build up a new 795 also. Thanks for the leads on the 795 mags and I have already ordered a few GI slings in anticipation of my new  "arsenal" .

   The way I figure, I'll have less FRN's (did not say that earlier as I wasn't sure it would be going over the top, but I forgot the crowed I was speaking with   ) in two different, completed LTR's than one 10/22. Unless of course I stumble across a great deal on one, I'll let the 795 and 702 prove themselves first.

   Till then, Rusty Mossbolt

[Rusty Mossbolt]

Hey guys, thought I'd forward an update.

Tech Sights must be mailed same day, and they come with info about Appleseed, I'm impressed.

I found the Uncle Mike's swivels and studs up at Cabela's.

I used the sling I bought a the G-Burg shoot last year.

After installation of the sights on the 702 I found that I needed to raise the comb a lot. I did not want to rely on foam and tape so I now have a pistol grip daisy BB gun! I modified the remaining butt stock to fit atop the 702. If I play with a bit, using spacers and whatnot on the two screws holding it in place I guess I will be able to claim that I have an "adjustable stock LTR"! 

All said, 69 for the sights, 10 for the swivels, 2.50 for the studs, 12.50 for the sling, $94 and the 702 is ready to go.

I am going to try to attach a pic, we'll see how that goes.

I am also going up to Dick's tomorrow to pick up a 795. $139 - $10 in store discount - $25 mail in + tax and I should be final price around 115. I've got the sights, used the CDNN link from wcm (thank you ) and have a couple mags in the mail. AS is sending a few slings too, yes I need them for my MBR's too. Once that one is put together I'll let you all know how it went and send a pic, I will probably have a custom camo paint job too, we'll see how ambitious I get! 

Thanks again for all of your input, you gave me the ambition to do this without reservation.

Now to get them zeroed, on the line, and in some rookies hands, see you all soon,

   Rusty Mossbolt

[slim]

That's a sweet rig!

[GoldFish]

That's pretty slick!

[KED]

One thing I would add to the 795 advice is get a new trigger and trigger guard from DIP. A little on the pricey side at $70 for both but it helps ALOT with the creepy, gritty factory trigger, and the new TG gives you more clearance on the mag release. Put one on both mine and the wife's 795 and really like it.
http://www.diproductsinc.com/Products.aspx?CAT=3603

[KAH]

Rusty:
I'm looking forward to taking a look at the 795.  I'm considering getting a couple as loaners, and the price seems "to good to be true".  I'll be interested in your opinion after this weekend's weather and shooting a few hundred rounds through them.

kah

p.s. does it come in pink?!   

[Rusty Mossbolt]

Here's the 795...

Everything went together very easy. One thing to note though, I found a great post----{I was going to insert the link here but now that I am home, the site is gone.}---- with photos and all from a guy who documented his 795 to LTR build up. The rail on the top canting to the side is a manufacture defect that is not consistent with all rifles. I only checked and would not have noticed had it not been for his article, so credit is due to him. ----{sight down the barrel and if you can not tell the "rail" is canted i am sure that you'll be fine, if you see it off set, ask for another one}---- Dick's in Toledo had three in stock including the display. The display had the cant and the one in the box that I bought did not... at least not as severe. 

He also put the trigger and floor plate swap in so I may do that too.

These are the targets I shot w/ the two new rifles after zeroing. I was shooting prone under the truck tail gate during the rain two weekends ago. Wanted to see how different ammo worked. The picture tells the story (that I need more practice) so at least I know what ammo I'll be shooting at AS. I hope the next targets I have to show will be rifleman qualifiers!

Thanks for all the help everyone, if not just for me but to anyone else who stumbles across this thread.

[RPD]

Rusty:
I'm looking forward to taking a look at the 795.  I'm considering getting a couple as loaners, and the price seems "to good to be true".  I'll be interested in your opinion after this weekend's weather and shooting a few hundred rounds through them.

kah

p.s. does it come in pink?!   

Hi KAH,
    My 10 yo son shot my 10/22 this weekend (Tapco adjustable stock, 4X9 sight, trigger and hammer work done, swivels, studs and sling).   He was frustrated with its performance, changed to my 795 (sling and el cheapo scope) and shot a 179.
  I've loaned it twice.  Two riflemen (Despree and another gentleman at Wilmington) resulted.
  ONLY caveat, scope creep, even if you have it TIGHTLY screwed on.  Not a problem this weekend at windy New Philly, but can be a problem.

just my .02,
RPD

[Neighbors]

I equipped my 11-yr old with a 795 as he preferred it's weight over the 10/22 I shoot. I also bought extra mags for the 795 from Bass Pro (10-rnd for ~$20), and mail ordered two 7-rnd mags from Cheaper Than Dirt (if mentioning vendors is not allowed, please let me know and I'll change the verbiage) for ~$11.50 each.  The mags I got from CTD were blued (black) vs. the shiny 10-rounders from the factory, making it -real- easy for him to know which one was 'two' and which one was 'eight' on the range...