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Appleseed confusion

Started by TnLarry, March 10, 2011, 01:20:30 AM

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TnLarry

I became aware of Appleseed in late summer of 2011. As I began to look into Appleseed I thought that it would be an interesting experience. Since I owned a couple of 10/22's I felt I had the hardware end covered. I began to look for a description of the course of fire and targets used as I wanted to practice prior to attending an Appleseed. I have seen references to at least three different courses of fire along with a number of targets. I believe I have (mostly) sorted out the targets but am totally confused as to the course of fire. I would appreciate someone showing me where the correct course of fire may be found.

One other minor issue; is the use of a glove permitted at Tennessee Appleseed events. The best I can determine this appears to be dependent on the range master or "shoot boss?".

Any response appreciated,

Larry


fprintf

#1
Hi Larry, thank you for joining the forum and asking your question!  To say the least it is "an interesting experience"!  I am not from TN but just jumping in here to help out...

The Course of Fire is very different depending on the targets that the Shoot Boss decides to use at various points during the two days. The primary target is an AQT, or Army Qualification Target. You will likely shoot more of these than anything else, particularly on Sunday.

The course of fire is 40 rounds total. Stage 1 is at the top of the paper and then goes down to Stage 4.
Stage 1, 100 yards simulated, standing. 10 rounds from one magazine.
Stage 2, 200 yards simulated, sitting.  2 magazines, one prepped with 2 rounds, the other prepped with 8 rounds. 5 shots at each target.
Stage 3, 300 yards simulated, prone.  2 magazines, one prepped with 2 rounds, the other prepped with 8 rounds. 3 shots, 3 shots and 4 shots at the three targets, from left to right.
Stage 4, 400 yards simulated, prone. 10 rounds from one magazine. Shoot the 4 targets, from left to right, as 2 rounds, 2 rounds, 3 rounds, 3 rounds.

As for your question about a glove, there is no problem with this at all.  edit: we've seen folks show up in full high-power shooting gear including a shooting mitten to dampen the pulse. For 4 MOA shooting, this is not usually required - a sling, rack rifle with decent sights, bulk ammunition and a teachable attitude are all that are required!
I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and dog-gone it people like me!  ~Stuart Smalley

2 clicks low

10/22's are great rifles but the sights are lacking, they are very hard to adjust, and hard to see. I would recomend adjustable aftermarket sights. Tech Sights are popular at about $60. When my next 10/22 arrives I'm going with the Williams @ $80. If your eyes are old you might want a 4x scope under $40. Neithor are needed, but very helpfull, we want you to shoot expert, or as we say Rifleman.

What is highly recomended is a USGI web sling & 1 1/4 inch swivels. Our store sells slings for 12.50 + shipping. If you look around on the web they can be had for a buck or two less. Swivels are available everywhere.

Gloves are fine. At the shoot last week, high was under 30. We all wore gloves.

2cl
"Semper Fritos" 1st. Chicago Chairborne

Mark Davis

I recommend you do not do a lot of practice before an appleseed, hard to believe but here's why.
The more times you do a activity the sequence get embedded into muscle memory deeper and deeper.
At appleseed we teach fundamentals, many of us came to appleseeds as shooters, breaking our old habits and embracing new ones is hard, but well worth it.
I personally knew most of these basics and as a competitive shooter for years. And was getting by by ignoring them.
But after working these fundamentals into my routine saw great improvement.
The less you have to forget, the easier it is grasp the very thing we want to teach you.
Do get out and shoot enough to find ammo that will reliably function you rifle.

CortJestir

Best way to prepare, IMV, is to stretch. Get limbered up for the weekend and get your body used to lying in prone. The weekend is fast-paced with a lot of transitions between positions. Don't worry about the Course of Fire - you will have plenty of opportunity to shoot it.

Most importantly, come to the shoot with an open mind to learning things and a teachable attitude. Appleseed won't work if you won't let it.

Lastly, have fun!!
CT Appleseed Facebook Page

"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know." - Ralph Waldo Emerson :D

TN_Dadx5

Larry,

The others covered your questions well; a Ruger 10/22 is a good rifle to use for Appleseed events.  My kids and I have 3 and 2 Marlin 795s; both are good rifles.  The only thing that I'd do is to get a sling, an extra magazine and change the sights, either to TechSites or a small scope.  And get yourself used to laying in the prone position.

I am in middle TN and I have never seen anyone rebuked for using a glove, although I only remember one person using one.  Our first event (in mid-TN) is March 26-27 at Manchester, I hope to see you there.  If you have any other questions you can post them here or PM me.

Charlie
aka Tndadx5
"A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins." Benjamin Franklin
Visit and "Like" the TN Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/#!/Tennesse.Project.Appleseed

JustJeff

#6
To answer your question on targets as completely as possible:

All Saturday shooting is generally done at 25M. Sunday's shooting MAY be split between 25M and KD (100-500M), at the discretion of the ShootBoss.

The first target of the day will be the "Redcoats," which consist of silhouette targets representing 100, 200, 300, and 400 yards as well as a 1" square.  13 rounds, 3 in each silhouette and 1 in the square.

The next round of fire will be on an 8 1/2 x 11" target with 5 1" squares for sighters.

From the sighter targets, the Shootboss may go to the "Green Meany" which is similar to the Redcoat but without the square.

From there they usually progress to the AQT (Army Qualification Test), all shoots get a minimum of one AQT in on Saturday others get more in (depends on speed of progress of shooters on the line and the speed of instruction).

Sunday starts with Redcoats, goes to sighter squares, then to AQT's (you will shoot a LOT of AQT's on Sunday). If the range you are at supports Known Distance, you have a centerfire, and you've shot a Rifleman score, your instructors may move to 100-500 yds and do KD on Army "D" targets (this doesn't happen often, as most Appleseed ranges only support 25M shoots, but some have KD).

The course of fire is always at the discretion of the ShootBoss, but the above are generally what is used.  The Shootboss may add one or two 'fun' targets to change the pace of the days and relieve stress.




Your version of "ineffective" does not necessarily reflect the truth....
Having been "ineffectively" taught to the Rifleman Standard and having been "ineffectively" taught to teach others to the Rifleman Standard, I believe I prefer the "ineffective" over the other choice.

TnLarry

Thanks, Everyone for your reply,

I am a wuss. Only shooting indoors 'til the thermometer gets above 50 or so. To date my practice firing is mostly offhand using an Appleseed 100 yd target. Also doing stretching exercises to be able to do the sitting position. If I understand the course of fire correctly stage 2 is standing to sitting, 2+8 rounds in 55 seconds and stage 3 is standing to prone, 2+8 rounds in 65 seconds. I believe stages 2 and 3 are the more difficult stages and the stages I need to practice the most. I believe my practice for stages 2 and 3 is mostly to learn to get into position quickly enough to leave 35 - 40 seconds for the shooting. I believe I can do stage 1 in 2 minutes and stage 4 in 5 minutes accurately without difficulty.

My shooting glove is just an ordinary leather work glove. My rifle is a 10/22 carbine with bedded barrel, and an aftermarket trigger, magazine release, bolt release, recoil buffer and web sling. Sights are an old Bushnell holographic red dot. By its appearance, I believe this sight may be the predecessor of the current EOTech sights.

Why the red dot? If I wear glasses that allow me to see the sights (irons) then I can not see the targets. I do not mean that the targets are fuzzy, I really can not see them. I can see 1" squares and hit them occasionally using the red dot sight.

My current goal is to attend the Appleseed event at Tullahoma/Arnold Engineering on April 30/May 1 unless there are Appleseed events to be held nearer the Nashville area. Presently Tullahoma seems to be closest to me.

Larry

Piker

Quote from: CortJestir on March 10, 2011, 10:19:44 AM
Best way to prepare, IMV, is to stretch. Get limbered up for the weekend and get your body used to lying in prone. The weekend is fast-paced with a lot of transitions between positions. Don't worry about the Course of Fire - you will have plenty of opportunity to shoot it.

Most importantly, come to the shoot with an open mind to learning things and a teachable attitude. Appleseed won't work if you won't let it.

Lastly, have fun!!

Rule 18: Limber Up
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

2 clicks low

Quote from: Piker on March 14, 2011, 11:49:54 PM
Rule 18: Limber Up

eerrrr...ok....I know 1 thru 4, dare I ask what are 5 thru 17?
2cl
"Semper Fritos" 1st. Chicago Chairborne

Piker

From the movie Zombieland.

Rule 18 was all I could think about after my first shoot. Didn't do it and it hurt like the Devil after the weekend.

Seriously, get in prone and sitting for a few minutes each evening in front of the Idiot Box (TV) and prepare your muscles, tendons and ligaments for those positions.
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

2 clicks low

Quote from: Piker on March 15, 2011, 12:02:48 AM
From the movie Zombieland.

Rule 18 was all I could think about after my first shoot. Didn't do it and it hurt like the Devil after the weekend.

Seriously, get in prone and sitting for a few minutes each evening in front of the Idiot Box (TV) and prepare your muscles, tendons and ligaments for those positions.

OK. Got it. It's like Gibb's rule #9, "always carry a knife"
thanks
2cl
"Semper Fritos" 1st. Chicago Chairborne

Mark Davis

If you stated what rule eighteen said, then those who did not see the movie would know what you mean.
I would rather buy ammo than support hollywood.
Quote from: Piker on March 15, 2011, 12:02:48 AM
From the movie Zombieland.

Rule 18 was all I could think about after my first shoot. Didn't do it and it hurt like the Devil after the weekend.

Seriously, get in prone and sitting for a few minutes each evening in front of the Idiot Box (TV) and prepare your muscles, tendons and ligaments for those positions.