Slings other than the web sling

[Garand]

Has anyone used either the Ching sling or the CW sling? I have been reading a book by Jeff Cooper and his commentaries in which he recommends these slings over the web sling. How do these other slings compare to the web sling?

[Dougum]

No clue about those slings but the mosin sling is absolutly wonderful. I think its made of wool and being from the '40's back Its actually made right. You can even use it on guns that lack sling studs. Just a wonderful sling and pretty cheap. Hope this helps.

Bolt

[Colorado Pete]

The Ching is a fast loop sling. You go into it like the hasty sling but the extra strap in the middle closes the loop. Very quick and full loop support. The CW is the precursor to the Ching, not as versatile. I have a Ching on all my hunting rifles. You can go from standing ready to position and be looped up by the time you hit the ground. Because of the design there is no 'hasty' with the Ching since that motion puts you into a loop. You can use hasty-hasty, in fact it's good to keep the sling on your arm in that fashion while carrying the rifle at ready (like a low port-arms), since it actually helps take up some of the weight. Great sling.

By the way, I took Col. Cooper's General Rifle class, got a good dose of Ching usage there.

[Garand]

Does the Ching sling provide as much stability to the rifle as the web sling?

[jmdavis]

I have a leather Ching sling on my scout rifle. For that use, I like it. But, it requires three studs. I am thinking about it for another hunting rifle (Browning A bolt).

I actually consider the Ching to be a modified Hasty, but I can also see it as a modified loop. I wish that there was better video of it's use.

I think that the Web is a more General Purpose sling than the CW or the Ching.

Mike

[Colorado Pete]

Does the Ching sling provide as much stability to the rifle as the web sling?

Yes, it is a fully closed loop. Does the same thing as the web loop or the leather 1907 loop, but takes about 2 seconds to acquire.

It is neither a "modified hasty" nor a "modified loop", it is a real loop sling with its own different configuration that eliminates what we call hasty with a GI sling. Losing hasty is no big deal, since hasty (as we teach with a GI sling) is itself a compromise between speed and steadiness. In hasty, you give up the full support of the loop to gain speed getting into the sling in a less steady mode. That is its only reason for being. The Ching puts you into a loop as fast as you would go into hasty with the GI sling, so there is no compromise - fast speed of the hasty, with full support of the loop. Best of both worlds.

I think the Ching is the best general-purpose system there is. The GI sling types take way longer to get into. The Ching does what they do in a fraction of the time.

I have worked extensively with the Ching, the 2-piece target shooter's cuff and strap, the M1907, and the GI web. On the target range in a match or just practicing, where you have plenty of time to get into the sling, any of the above will do. For a practical field rifle where reaction speed counts, the Ching is light-years ahead.

[jmdavis]

Yes, it is a fully closed loop. Does the same thing as the web loop or the leather 1907 loop, but takes about 2 seconds to acquire.

It is neither a "modified hasty" nor a "modified loop", it is a real loop sling with its own different configuration that eliminates what we call hasty with a GI sling. Losing hasty is no big deal, since hasty (as we teach with a GI sling) is itself a compromise between speed and steadiness. In hasty, you give up the full support of the loop to gain speed getting into the sling in a less steady mode. That is its only reason for being. The Ching puts you into a loop as fast as you would go into hasty with the GI sling, so there is no compromise - fast speed of the hasty, with full support of the loop. Best of both worlds.

The reasons that I refer to the Ching as a modified Hasty or modified loop are:

1. Low position on the support arm. The Ching is usually just above the elbow. It is not locked down by keepers ( as would be a 1907) so this position is somewhat variable. The lack of lock down is both a strength and a flaw. It is fast to get into. But position variations can lead to inconsistencies between courses of fire. 

2. I feel pulse more with the low position of the Ching. While this is not a serious issue with the Scout and it's intended purpose, I do believe that it is with precision Long Range Marksmanship (call it 500+ yards).

My reasons for liking the web sling for General Purpose use are:

1. Cheap at $12. It has by far the most "bang for the buck" of any sling on the market. By contrast, a leather Ching will run $45-55 and a 1907 anywhere from $22-$72 depending on manufacture and material. 

2.  It works. We have an entire training doctrine that revolves around the web sling. It is easier to setup and teach the web than it is the 1907.

I would love to talk to you Pete about your experiences in the Rifle 270 class at Gunsite. With my recent acquisition of a Scout rifle I would like to take that class at some point.

[henschman]

Ah yes, this is the main criticism that is levelled against teaching sling-supported positions.  "It is great for the range, but isn't very practical for the field."  We all know there are two main uses for a sling:  as a marksmanship aid, and for carrying the rifle.  When a sling is optimized for one role, it usually sacrifices something in the other.  And any time a compromise is made between the two, there are sacrifices of performance for both roles.  I say why try to compromise?  Just use 2 slings in conjunction with each other!

For carrying a rifle in the field, I like a 1 or 2 point tactical sling, attched using side swivels.  The rifle stays out in front of the shooter for hands-free carry, and can be deployed quickly when needed.  Some of these slings are very versatile in how the rifle can be carried.  

Then for your marksmanship aid sling, just use a method that is pretty common among Appleseeders... on the GI web sling, just put an extra hook on the front, or a push-button QD swivel that attaches to a socket on your handguard.  The GI sling stays on your arm, out of the way until it is needed.  It can be hooked to itself so as not to dangle around and make noise.  When you need some extra stability, just hook it up to your rifle and loop your wrist.  This is quicker to get into than any other type of sling I've seen, and we all know how stable the loop sling is.  Even a 2-point tactical sling won't get in the way if it's attached to the side of the rifle.

A GI web sling is only one way to do this.  You can do just about the same thing with an adjustable strap hooked to your jacket, overalls, web gear, load-bearing vest, armor, etc, with a hook or a QD swivel on the other end.  Just hook it up to your handguard and loop your wrist around it just like with a loop sling.

[Colorado Pete]

Good points guys, but it is clear to me that you would both benefit from more play time with a Ching. Allow me to differ on some points:

Henschman:
The Ching will be faster that what you describe! And as I stated above, there is NO compromise among speed/steadiness/carrying ability with the Ching! Not that I have been able to detect, anyway! But, I don't do the CQB tactical AR15 stuff with the rifle hanging down in front of me. My M1 is in my hands or on my shoulder, and I can go from shoulder carry to offhand aim in about 1.5 seconds. I don't bother with "transition to pistol" either. If I have a rifle in my hands and I have to shoot some felon or terrorist, might as well use what's in my hands, than drop it and draw. If I have to sling it and go to pistol, it goes over the back cavalry style.
If I'm in the woods, I carry the rifle at ready in the port-arms style, butt at hip, muzzle up and in line with my eyesight (eyes-muzzle-target), with the Ching on my elbow only, in Appleseed Hasty-Hasty, all the time. I can take a hasty-hasty offhand snapshot in an eyeblink that way, and if I want to drop to a lower position, I can loop up with the motion of Appleseed hasty in less time than it takes to get from standing to whatever position I want. I don't have to fuss with anything!

jmdavis:
The Ching does NOT go low on your arm. It goes up high just like a regular loop (where did you get that notion?). If you can't get the sling up high on your arm, lengthen the loop by a hole or so.
It does not lock down, true, but the Ching is not meant for long strings of fire as in highpower 600 yard slow fire. It is meant for "hopping and popping", a fast shot from a fast position. However, you can keep it in place on your arm by simply maintaining tension on the loop straps. This happens naturally when in position. In between positions you can just keep the sling on your arm and push the rifle forwards as you move, which maintains tension and keeps the strap anchored in place on your arm.
The pulse is there regardless. I get a pulse with a leather M1907, even with a heavy sleeve pad on a highpower shooting jacket. It's worth about 1/2 MOA in prone. Never messed up my shooting at all when I did highpower at 600 yards prone with the M1 (the X-ring is 1 MOA at 600). Run the Ching up high on your support arm where it belongs, it is NOT meant to be run low on the elbow, trust me!

A Ching is pricey if you buy it. You can make your own for the price of a web sling and 90 minutes of time. I've made about seven of them at least. Send me a PM with your email and I'll e-mail you a write-up I did on it.

The Cooper Rifle class was great, I highly recommend it. Different than Appleseed, less time on fundamentals and more on field application: getting a first-round hit on a target the size of a deer's kill zone, from a field-expedient position, at unknown distances, under time pressure (hopping and popping!). You will learn some very good field practice drills there: snapshot, rifle bounce, and rifle ten. I went there after I had already made expert in NRA highpower (very similar to the AQT) and thought I knew all I needed to know. Boy was I wrong! Different application, different mindset. Out of 24 of us, 18 had Scouts. I had my trusty old Mauser 98 .270. Did well enough to earn an e-ticket, cleaned the paper graduation exercise, and came in second in the final man-against-man steel shoot-off. I learned a lot, and it's a good package of added techniques that complements very well what Appleseed does. You will be glad you did it. One of the guys took some digital pix, I'll email you some. We had the class at the NRA Whittington Center in New Mexico in '99. The guy that beat me in the shoot-off is Jim McKee, who runs a shooting school (Shoot-Rite Academy) in the southeast. He wrote an article about it for Precision Shooting magazine. A buddy of mine gave me the issue. Turned out I was in every picture! He got a good one of my bald spot.

[andysleather.com]

Howdy folks,

I got wind of a mention of the Ching Sling from an Appleseeder and came to say howdy and post.

As some of you know I make a version of the Ching Sling ( Eric Ching approved!) and actively use and promote it's use.
(Hey, "other Andy in NH" chime in!).

PM me if you have any questions or need a demo photo/video etc.

Regards,

Andy

[jmdavis]

Andy makes a good sling.

I know because I have one.

[Andy in NH]

I'm a big fan of the Ching sling also.  Here are some comments I made on another forum:

IME, the Ching-sling is more stable than the hasty-sling and just as stable as the loop-sling. The Ching-sling is superior to the loop-sling in several aspects; it is quicker to get in and out of, it is far better as carry strap, and the sling stays with the rifle (you won't have a "leash" swinging off your support arm).

However, beware that the placement of the third sling swivel is critical. On rifles with detachable box-magazines (10/22, M1A, etc) the placement of the third swivel and the manner in which the middle strap connects to the rifle can impede the magazine well. Flush magazines may not fall free and extended magazines might cause a malfunction if the middle strap puts pressure on it.

To mitigate this on my M1A, I simply installed the third swivel on the side of the stock.

On other rifles, the third sling swivel should be installed closer to the front swivel to allow unimpeded access to the magazine well.

I may be wrong, but I believe that Ching-slings were originally designed for use with bolt-action rifles with internal (or flush) magazines.

Like the hasty and loop-slings, a Ching-sling requires you to remove your firing hand from the rifle (or unsling) to switch magazines.

I have Ching-slings on most of my non-AR rifles. A Ching-sling won't support the weight of a rifle like a 1, 2 or 3 point sling can unless you use the shoulder carries (reducing readiness), but it makes a better shooting sling.

I like the Langlois Ching sling, because I can call Andy and be specific about the length of sling / middle strap, the type of hardware, and the type / color of leather that I want.

[Colorado Pete]

Andy makes a good point about rifles with extended mags. The Ching rides best with the middle stud on the side with those. All mine are on bolt guns and an M1, nothing gets in the way there with the center stud mounted on the bottom, plus it is ambidextrous that way.

One of my friends likes a simple CW on his AR's. This is a single strap which just goes from the front swivel to the center swivel for a shooting loop. The rear end of the strap can be moved from the center swivel to the rear swivel for carrying. On his configuration, he keeps the rear end of the strap permanently attached to a loop of paracord threaded through the rear of the fore-end tube. I think he can slide the strap around the paracord to either side of the carbine for shooting from either shoulder. Not as stable in shoulder carry but very simple and quick.

[oladcock]

Ah yes, this is the main criticism that is levelled against teaching sling-supported positions.  "It is great for the range, but isn't very practical for the field."  We all know there are two main uses for a sling:  as a marksmanship aid, and for carrying the rifle.  When a sling is optimized for one role, it usually sacrifices something in the other.  And any time a compromise is made between the two, there are sacrifices of performance for both roles.  I say why try to compromise?  Just use 2 slings in conjunction with each other!

For carrying a rifle in the field, I like a 1 or 2 point tactical sling, attched using side swivels.  The rifle stays out in front of the shooter for hands-free carry, and can be deployed quickly when needed.  Some of these slings are very versatile in how the rifle can be carried.  

Then for your marksmanship aid sling, just use a method that is pretty common among Appleseeders... on the GI web sling, just put an extra hook on the front, or a push-button QD swivel that attaches to a socket on your handguard.  The GI sling stays on your arm, out of the way until it is needed.  It can be hooked to itself so as not to dangle around and make noise.  When you need some extra stability, just hook it up to your rifle and loop your wrist.  This is quicker to get into than any other type of sling I've seen, and we all know how stable the loop sling is.  Even a 2-point tactical sling won't get in the way if it's attached to the side of the rifle.

A GI web sling is only one way to do this.  You can do just about the same thing with an adjustable strap hooked to your jacket, overalls, web gear, load-bearing vest, armor, etc, with a hook or a QD swivel on the other end.  Just hook it up to your handguard and loop your wrist around it just like with a loop sling.

I'll second Henschman's observations. I have all my personal rifles set up this way with the forward hook. Just keep the loop on your arm, it hooks up and you're in it in the blink of an eye with no variation. This method is faster then the hasty or the Ching....O.L.