Daniel Morgans test

[sparks1]

Could someone please point me to the reference that tells us Morgan had a bucket at 250yds for a riflemans test.

All I can find is a shot at 100yds at a poster of the head of a British officer.

Thanks

[oladcock]

There are several books on Morgan and mentions of his contributions in dozens of others. Not Morgan specific, here is a link on Rev War rifleman in general, good ol' Tim Murphy in the middle of it of course. None being April 19 1775 specific, Morgan and men like Murphy knew very well what they were about. Let's nurture a few million like them! ...O.L.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/history/american/4459-the-american-rifleman-in-the-revolutionary-war

[asminuteman]

"Yesterday the Company were supplied with a small Quantity of Powder from the Magazine, which wanted airing, and was not in good Order for Rifles; in the Evening, however, they were drawn out, to shew the Gentlemen of the Town their Dexterity in shooting; a Clapboard with a Mark the Size of a Dollar, was put up; they began to fire off hand, and the Bystanders were surprized, few Shot being made that were not close to or in the Paper; when they shot for a Time in this Way, some lay on their Backs, some on their Breast or Side, others ran 20 or 30 Steps and firing, appeared to be equally certain of their Mark - With this Performance the Company were more than satisfied, when a young Man took up the Board in his hand, not by the End but the Side, and holding it up, his Brother walked to the Distance and very coolly shot into the white; laying down his Rifle, he took the Board, and holding as it was held before, the second Brother shot as the former had done. - By this exercise I was more astonished then pleased. But will you believe me when I tell you that one of the Men took the Board and placing it between his Legs, stood with his Back to the Tree, while another drove the center."
- Taken from a letter from Fredericktown, Maryland, Aug.1st as published in the Pennsylvania Gazette 16 August 1775.

"On my return from Richmond, I witnessed the mode that renders the Virginian rifle-men so expert in use of arms -- as great numbers were assembled, shooting at marks, and which I understand, long before the commencement of the war, was the constant diversion in this country; so certain are they of hitting, that they are not fearful of holding the board at arm's length; nay, some are so little apprehensive of danger, that they will place it between their legs for another to fire at".
- Anburey, Thomas, Travels Through the Interior Parts of America ..., New York: NY Times and Arno Press, 1969, (Vol II, p. 414-15, near Charlottesville, in Virginia, 4 August, 1779).

The Baroness von Riedesel, wife of German Maj. Gen. Frederick von Riedesel, during the cannonade of Saratoga: "We had no water because the enemy shot every man in the head who went near the river." American snipers finally permitted a soldier's wife to run to the river. (McDowell, The Revolutionary War,1970).

"Saturday, the 17th of August (1776)- Most of our officers must cut the rank insiginia from their uniforms, supposedly because the rebel so-called riflemen had their greatest interest in officers, and so that these will not be distinguishable from privates, gold and silver insignia will not be worn, and now in many regiments all uniforms are similar...."
Lieut. Johann Heinrich von Bardeleben
Hesse-Cassel von Donop Regiment

"He [the captain] to a board of a foot square and with chalk drew the shape of a moderate nose in the center and nailed it up to a tree at one hundred and fifty yards distance, and those who came nighest the mark with a single ball was to go [become a member of the company]. But by the first forty or fifty that fired, the nose was all blown out of the board, and by his company was up [had the full compliment of men] the board shared the same fate."
John Harrower, June 1st, 1775, an indentured servant serving as a teacher at a plantation school in VA. He describes the process for the selection of men for a rifle company from VA when too many men show up to volunteer.

Does this help?
Ken
Member Morgan's Rilfemen Company Ca
morgansriflemen.com

[Earl]

http://jrshelby.com/kimocowp/morgan.htm best little biography of Daniel Morgan on the net, but it doesn't talk about the test either. And of course, the Wikipedia entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Morgan  I do like Ken's references.

[sparks1]

"Yesterday the Company were supplied with a small Quantity of Powder from the Magazine, which wanted airing, and was not in good Order for Rifles; in the Evening, however, they were drawn out, to shew the Gentlemen of the Town their Dexterity in shooting; a Clapboard with a Mark the Size of a Dollar, was put up; they began to fire off hand, and the Bystanders were surprized, few Shot being made that were not close to or in the Paper; when they shot for a Time in this Way, some lay on their Backs, some on their Breast or Side, others ran 20 or 30 Steps and firing, appeared to be equally certain of their Mark - With this Performance the Company were more than satisfied, when a young Man took up the Board in his hand, not by the End but the Side, and holding it up, his Brother walked to the Distance and very coolly shot into the white; laying down his Rifle, he took the Board, and holding as it was held before, the second Brother shot as the former had done. - By this exercise I was more astonished then pleased. But will you believe me when I tell you that one of the Men took the Board and placing it between his Legs, stood with his Back to the Tree, while another drove the center."
- Taken from a letter from Fredericktown, Maryland, Aug.1st as published in the Pennsylvania Gazette 16 August 1775.

"On my return from Richmond, I witnessed the mode that renders the Virginian rifle-men so expert in use of arms -- as great numbers were assembled, shooting at marks, and which I understand, long before the commencement of the war, was the constant diversion in this country; so certain are they of hitting, that they are not fearful of holding the board at arm's length; nay, some are so little apprehensive of danger, that they will place it between their legs for another to fire at".
- Anburey, Thomas, Travels Through the Interior Parts of America ..., New York: NY Times and Arno Press, 1969, (Vol II, p. 414-15, near Charlottesville, in Virginia, 4 August, 1779).

The Baroness von Riedesel, wife of German Maj. Gen. Frederick von Riedesel, during the cannonade of Saratoga: "We had no water because the enemy shot every man in the head who went near the river." American snipers finally permitted a soldier's wife to run to the river. (McDowell, The Revolutionary War,1970).

"Saturday, the 17th of August (1776)- Most of our officers must cut the rank insiginia from their uniforms, supposedly because the rebel so-called riflemen had their greatest interest in officers, and so that these will not be distinguishable from privates, gold and silver insignia will not be worn, and now in many regiments all uniforms are similar...."
Lieut. Johann Heinrich von Bardeleben
Hesse-Cassel von Donop Regiment

"He [the captain] to a board of a foot square and with chalk drew the shape of a moderate nose in the center and nailed it up to a tree at one hundred and fifty yards distance, and those who came nighest the mark with a single ball was to go [become a member of the company]. But by the first forty or fifty that fired, the nose was all blown out of the board, and by his company was up [had the full compliment of men] the board shared the same fate."
John Harrower, June 1st, 1775, an indentured servant serving as a teacher at a plantation school in VA. He describes the process for the selection of men for a rifle company from VA when too many men show up to volunteer.

Does this help?
Ken
Member Morgan's Rilfemen Company Ca
morgansriflemen.com

This is the stuff I was asking for. Thanks

[asminuteman]

Happy to see it helped...
many more ...

Merry Christmas to you and family....

Ken

[Sly223]

WOW!
Between the legs!

[JustJeff]

WOW!
Between the legs!

I agree......not a lot of folks I'd trust to make that shot.....

[sparks1]

Keep that powder dry!!

[asminuteman]

THE VIRGINIA GAZETTE
October 11, 1776
LONDON, May 18.

One of our correspondents has favoured us with the following intelligence: Ever since authentic accounts were received of the rifle men in America, Government has been casting about for some expedient to frustrate their skill. [??]... mantelets made of raw hides have been adopted. Six, seven, or more of these hides are nailed together, in an oblong figure, of about four feet in length, and about two feet in breadth, fixed upon a sort of axle tree which joins two small spokes, whereby the whole machine is easily moved by the man who fights from behind it. The mantelet is held erect by two curved steel rods, reaching from the top of the mantelet to the wooden spokes. The gun is fixed on a moving spring, so that when discharged, the soldier turns it about to charge again, without altering his situation.

The same correspondent, in a subsequent letter, informs us, that Government ordered 500 of these to be got ready with all possible despatch, under the direction of Colonel C--lls. And that last Tuesday the first 100 of them were proved at Woolwich. Twelve out of the number were condemned, the rest were really proof against all small shot, even at the distance of 50 yards. So that 500 men, behind these, are this summer, to dispute the point with our brethren the rifle -barrel-men.


The British are going to resort to riot shields to deal with the feared "Riflemen".

I recently dug this up, and I understand this is an older thread

[asminuteman]

VIRGINIA GAZETTE 2
August THE 3, 1775
WILLIAMSBURG

That a number of rifle-men had marched from Pennsylvania to the continental camp near Boston. That on the 11th of last month captain Morgan's company of rifle-men passed through Frederick town , in Maryland, on their way to the American army, and were in a day after followed by the companies under the captains Cresap, Stinson, and Price, all chosen rifle-men, eager to hazard their lives in their country's cause, and followed the righteous undertaking of their beloved Washington!

And a description of a demonstration by Captain Michael Cresap's group mentioned above:
The Pennsylvania Gazette
August 16, 1775
Title: PHILADELPHIA, August 16.

Extract of a Latter from Frederick Town, [Maryland] August 1.

"Notwithstanding the Urgency of my Business, I have been detained three Days in this Place by an Occurrence truly agreeable. - I have had the Happiness of seeing Captain Michael Cresap, marching at the Head of a formidable Company, of upwards of 130 Men from the Mountains and back Woods, painted like Indians, armed with Tomahawks and Rifles , dressed in hunting Shirts and Mockasons, and tho' some of them had travelled near 800 Miles from the Banks of the Ohio, they seemed to walk light and easy, and not with less Spirit than in the first Hour of their March. - Health and Vigour, after what they had undergone, declared them to be intimate with Hardship and familiar with Danger - Joy and Satisfaction were visible in the Crowd that met them - Had Lord North been present, and assured that the brave Leader could raise Thousands of such like to defend his Country, what think you, would not the Hatchet and the Block have intruded upon his Mind? I had an Opportunity of attending the Captain during his Stay in Town, and watched the Behaviour of his Men, and the Manner in which he treated them; for it seems that all those who go out to War under him, do not only pay the most willing Obedience to him as their Commander, but in every Instance of Distress look up to him as a Friend or a Father. - A great Part of his Time was spent in listening to and relieving their Wants, without any apparent Sense of Fatigue or Trouble; when Complaints were before him he determined with Kindness and Spirit, and on every Occasion condescended to please without losing his Dignity. -
"Yesterday the Company were supplied with a small Quantity of Powder from the Magazine, which wanted airing, and was not in good Order for Rifles; in the Evening, however, they were drawn out, to shew the Gentlemen of the Town their Dexterity in shooting; a Clapboard with a Mark the Size of a Dollar, was put up; they began to fire off hand, and the Bystanders were surprized, few Shot being made that were not close to or in the Paper; when they shot for a Time in this Way, some lay on their Backs, some on their Breast or Side, others ran 20 or 30 Steps and firing, appeared to be equally certain of their Mark - With this Performance the Company were more than satisfied, when a young Man took up the Board in his Hand, not by the End but the Side, and holding it up, his Brother walked to the Distance and very coolly shot into the white; laying down his Rifle, he took the Board, and holding it as it was held before, the second Brother shot as the former had done. - By this exercise I was more astonished then pleased. But will you believe me when I tell you that one of the Men took the Board and placing it between his Legs, stood with his Back to the Tree, while another drove the Center. What would a regular Army, of considerable Strength in the Forest of America do with 1000 of these Men, who want nothing to preserve their Health and Courage, but Water from the Spring, with a little parched Corn, and what they can easily procure in Hunting; and who, wrapped in their Blankets in the Damp of Night, would choose the Shade of a Tree for their Covering, and the Earth for their Bed?"

[Sly223]

These are truly Dangerous ol' Men!
I also remember a story of the efficiency of the Colonial Army, An officer wrote of his Column,That they were able to kill clean and butcher a whole hog with out barely breaking rank.

[Shooter30-06]

I think that it is interesting that the on-line encyclopedia article on "Long Rifles" has a  reference to a 250 yard headshot by Daniel Boone in 1778 in the siege of Boonsborough.  Apparently, that occurrence was confirmed by both the Colonsits and the British.

[asminuteman]

I keep finding tid bits about "riflemen"....just thought I'd share


THE VIRGINIA GAZETTE 3
November 17, 1775

Mr. Purdie,

I REMEMBER seeing an account of capt. Cresap's rifle company shooting at a shingle that was held in one of the men's hands, and shot through by his brother. This was mentioned to be a very extraordinary thing, as indeed it was; but it is no more than what has been frequently done by the Virginia riflemen. I have known many people do it. At the distance of 200 yards, two men have shot into the same hole, in a paper not bigger than a dollar; and this Mr. S. Athawes of London can attest, for he saw it done when he was in Frederick county, Virginia, and carried home with him the paper, through which it was but just discernable that two balls had passed. The riflemen now in our regiments declare, that they can hit a man every shoot if within 250 yards, and his head if within 150. As some proof of this, I can mention what happened a little while ago on one of the creeks near Williamsburg. A man had got into a canoe, out of a boat, upon seeing the riflemen , and was paddling off, when they hailed him. On his refusing to stop, they fired ahead of him; and the man still continuing his flight (thinking that by this time he had got out of their reach, as he has since confessed) the officer ordered his people to fire at him, which three of them did, when one shot went through the canoe, another through the man's waistcoat, brushing a button on his breast, and the third through his hat, within half an inch of his head. And last summer our riflemen under col. Lewis gave convincing proofs that their dexterity in shooting was not confined to mere butts and marks, or harmless game, but could be applied with incredible truth when aimed at the bravest and most formidable of all enemies; for in that engagement there were more Indians killed than there were of French and Indians in Braddock's defeat, and more than I ever heard were killed in any engagement during the last war. And although the Indians, according to their manner of fighting, never fire twice from the same tree, and can very seldom be seen in an engagement, and when seen discover but their head and breast, or shoulders, yet great numbers of them were killed and wounded, and it is said that all the dead were found shot through the head or breast. I wish that some abler pen was employed to celebrate the praises of our men in that engagement, and in major M'Donald's. It would then be seen with how much justice they said in their glorious resolves, that they could march and shoot with any troops in the world.

[grunt soldier]

tag for good information

[AdamSelene]

Does someone have a link to a historical society site with one of these letters or a ref (title and author) to a book with information on the Rifleman test? 

I want to use it in my MA thesis but right now the only reference to the test in Daniel Morgan: Revolutionary Rifleman by Don Higginbotham is that there was a test in some rifle companies (no specifics on which ones) but no evidence that Morgan's company did or did not use a test.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[asminuteman]

news print archive at Colonial Williamsburg ....dates 1750-1785?
web based..you can...read for yourself....yet use the date/issue numbers I have been adding
you'll find things faster

enjoy
-k

also as a reminder, Col Morgan did NOT administer the tests, that was the job of subordinates and lower ranking officers

[asminuteman]

Bezon Honored scum!

Again I fancy you with a historical tale, a tale of the fabled riflemen,

*disclaimer*...Children do NOT try this at home!


Virginia Gazette Oct 3, 1777 pg2
Williamsburg   October 3,
Capt. Thomas Rowland, of Botetourt, last week, in this city, made an experiment of his new method of loading and firing rifles, which shows that rifles may be easily loaded and discharged in as short a time as muskets generally are, with their usual certainty as to aim, and with triple execution in time of action. He shot twelve balls into the compass of a large handkerchief, at the distance of fifty yards, in four discharges of his piece, in the pace of 52 seconds. Several of the balls were within six inches of the center, and but three of the balls would have a man's body. In another experiment, after firing thirty balls in ten discharges, his rifle appeared as clean and cool in the barrel, though she was not wiped during the experiment, as if she had not been fired more than once. Capt. Rowland's method is looked upon as a valuable discovery; having rendered that instrument of death, which is already so much dreaded by our enemies, capable of being infinitely more destructive and terrible, and that by a simple and easy operation





Your Thought's?

Wohdoh nah My Brother's

your most humble and obedient severant.......(Cough)

-k#3

[asminuteman]

"This province has raised 1,000 riflemen, the worst of whom will put a ball into a man's head at a distance of 150 or 200 yards, therefore advise your officers who shall hereafter come out to America to settle their affairs in England before their departure".

- Bradford brothers, Philadelphia printers, letter to King George, which appeared in The London Chronicle August 17, 1775

Bravado?......or a threat based in facts?

Anyway you wish to interrupt  this ad....
The ad is reality.....it happened