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'NORMING' and the Critically Important Role of Appleseed's Impact On Our Nation

Started by Castle Mountain, November 27, 2010, 04:05:37 PM

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Castle Mountain

November 27, 2010, 04:05:37 PM Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 04:08:44 PM by CASTLE MOUNTAIN
Norming Guns Away:


Thinking about the Appleseed mission for 2011 and for the long term, I was
greatly reminded so much more of the significance each instructor plays
in the growth and promotion and success of our mission. We have no choice
in face of the important information this fine article presents. This is not an
iceberg distraction it is a wake up call of just how important we are and
the effort each of us needs to sustain in order to awaken our nation from its slumber.
I just wish the NRA were awake to what we are striving to accomplish and recognize
that we are on parallel paths and that they are not doing it by themselves.

http://www.ammoland.com/2010/11/26/norming-guns-away-warning-about-the-united-nations/
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam- will find a way or I will make one".
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."  one who has not qualified himself with the M-16 may not be considered to be a responsible citizen."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

"Terrorism is the best political weapon, for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death."
-- Adolf Hitler (1889-1945) German Nazi Dictator
 

"Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in

fepowered

#1
November 27, 2010, 05:10:02 PM Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 05:12:33 PM by fepowered
Quote from: Castle Mountain on November 27, 2010, 04:05:37 PM
Norming Guns Away:
I just wish the NRA were awake to what we are striving to accomplish and recognize
that we are on parallel paths and that they are not doing it by themselves.
The NRA is the proverbial bull in the china shop.  It is not a matter of the NRA doing something without us, it is we who are doing something without them (without their certification/endorsement).  
It appears ot me that Fred has deliberately avoided the bureaucracy of the NRA and NRA instructor certification, etc.  The NRA relies on funds from its training programs.  Nothing comes without a price.  It is not going to certify a RWVA instructor without us paying the 30 pieces of silver....

At this point, the "norming" really is simply just another an iceberg...  We have far bigger fish to fry than nonexistent conceptual international treaties...
"Today, we need a nation of Riflemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are
willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."

TaosGlock

#2
November 27, 2010, 07:35:20 PM Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 08:49:57 PM by TaosGlock
The days of throwing your money down a rathole and expecting some other "activist" group to make decisions about your freedoms and liberty are over.
These "activist groups" need to join us, because as far as I am concerned Appleseed is the norm in the light of the Founding Fathers. Soon we will be so big they can't ignore us.
So back to work and fill those lines with "closet gun owners" and everyone else.
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director/Current Lead Rifle Instructor: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

Castle Mountain

#3
November 27, 2010, 08:18:13 PM

This is exactly right! Appleseed will fill the vacuum that exists within American hearts and minds
and/or refocus them, thereby those external influences will be greatly minimized because
owning and using a rifle and the gun culture as a whole will be the norm.
We double again this year we know we are riding and driving a juggernaut.
What we do is so vitally important.

CM

Quote from: TaosGlock on November 27, 2010, 07:35:20 PM
The days of throwing your money down a rathole and expecting some other "activist" group to make decisions about your freedoms and liberty are over.
These "activist groups" need to join us, because as far as I am concerned as Appleseed is the norm in the light of the Founding Fathers. Soon we will be so big they can't ignore us.
So back to work and fill those lines with "closet gun owners" and everyone else.
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam- will find a way or I will make one".
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."  one who has not qualified himself with the M-16 may not be considered to be a responsible citizen."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

"Terrorism is the best political weapon, for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death."
-- Adolf Hitler (1889-1945) German Nazi Dictator
 

"Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in

redneck

#4
November 28, 2010, 12:27:09 AM
The NRA does know about us. I personally spoke to the NRA President about Appleseed and invited him to visit a shoot. He lives just a few miles from the Whittington Center outside Raton, NM. I sent him a flier and the Backwoods Home magazine with Appleseed on the cover. I never heard from him... but he knows about us.....

TaosGlock

#5
November 28, 2010, 12:35:37 AM
Quote from: redneck on November 28, 2010, 12:27:09 AM
The NRA does know about us. I personally spoke to the NRA President about Appleseed and invited him to visit a shoot. He lives just a few miles from the Whittington Center outside Raton, NM. I sent him a flier and the Backwoods Home magazine with Appleseed on the cover. I never heard from him... but he knows about us.....
O0
We will have a very full schedule up there this year so maybe all the NRA-WC staff and even the NRA Pres. will join us.
TG
89 fantastic Appleseeds since 2008/24 Libertyseeds!
Adventure Camp Director/Current Lead Rifle Instructor: NRA WC Raton,NM
New Mexico's first Rifleman: Sept. 2008 NRAWC
Their walls are filled with cannonballs, their motto is don't tread on me-Grateful Dead
Liberty is not a cruise ship full of pampered passengers. It is a man of war and we are all crew-Boston T. Party
"Make no mistake, when you cheer for the people of the American Revolution, you are cheering for traitors and criminals.
They broke the law, because liberty is always illegal"- Larken Rose

Castle Mountain

#6
November 28, 2010, 01:03:25 AM Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 01:09:48 AM by Castle Mountain

I really appreciate everyone's comment on this article.
Most enlightning gentlemen.  Thanks for your positive input.

CM
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam- will find a way or I will make one".
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."  one who has not qualified himself with the M-16 may not be considered to be a responsible citizen."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

"Terrorism is the best political weapon, for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death."
-- Adolf Hitler (1889-1945) German Nazi Dictator
 

"Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in

Garand69

#7
November 28, 2010, 11:58:48 AM
Quote from: TaosGlock on November 27, 2010, 07:35:20 PM
The days of ONLY throwing your money down a rathole and expecting some other "activist" group to make decisions about your freedoms and liberty are over. Totally agree (with the "ONLY" thrown in)

These "activist groups" need to join us, because as far as I am concerned Appleseed is the norm in the light of the Founding Fathers. Soon we will be so big they can't ignore us.
So back to work and fill those lines with "closet gun owners" and everyone else.

I don't believe they will ever "Join Us", though some positive coverage RE: Appleseed would be nice. I have belonged to several Pro- Gun and Pro-2A orgs for a while, and will continue to be. It is part of a multi-pronged approach. The NRA http://home.nra.org/, GOA http://gunowners.org/, and JFPO http://jpfo.org/ are my Favorites for National activities. And the ISRA www.isra.org (Which the RWVA is a Proud Member of) and Illinois Carry http://www.illinoiscarry.com/, for Illinois related issues (like bringing the McDonald case to SCOTUS).

And then of course you have the ones that you may not think about too often... The Cato Institute http://www.cato.org/ , The fine folks who brought the Heller case to the SCOTUS. And The Heritage Foundation http://www.heritage.org/, for their excellent research work.

All of those groups are in the fight, and all of them need your checks thrown down the corrosponding "rat holes" whenever one can afford to. Why? Because they are all taking the fight to a different front! It is easy-ish to square off on a large opponent and fight. It is far more difficult to be fighting that large opponent (the NRA) while a bunch of smaller faster and less "PC" fighters are tearing you up on on your shins, kidneys and.....

If you look at how the enemies of your freedoms work, this is exactly how they do it. The big guy holds the ground while looking above reproach while dozens and dozens of other groups are swarming the opponent at the same time. And of course, the smaller the group.... the less PC and the sharper the elbows. That is how the broadest group of supporters is gathered. They may not agree on how to fight or even what they are fighting for, but they know the opponent.

When you try to put them all under one tent, in our case, you have the NRA. Not necessarily "Bad" because they are big and their role is to hold ground, while the smaller faster and more focused fighters do the damage. Why is the NRA big and slow? Because it is so large, it has to have all types of gun owners onboard. And most gun owners are not hardcore "shall not be infringed types". The majority of shotgunners do not care about my rights to own an AR10, The majority of Competitive shooters are not concerned with hunters issues, and could care less about high cap mag bans, etc etc. So what you end up with is fighter like Mongo from Blazing Saddles (no offense to the NRA, both sides of the fight have a Mongo). He can take a punch and give one, but a bit slow on his feet, and because there is so many different factions pulling the decision making strings, they seem slow to react.

Appleseed is a true grass roots program. Which is good because most of the oppositions "small fighters" are actually "Astro-Turf". Grassroots programs all start the same way, a person with "a typewriter and a fax machine", and typically progress through various levels while increasing in size to the point that they have to adapt many of the "Big Guys" flaws in order to work. If not careful it becomes a Grassroots/Astro-Turf Hybrid.... essentially volunteers being directed by salaried image-makers.

What is really good about Appleseed, and something that i believe will add to it's longevity and effectiveness, is the fact that we use the truth, while America's enemies typically do not. This automatically broadens our base without changing our mission or message.

The "Norming" of America is exactly what has happened, and while that makes it an Iceberg, it is also the very tool that us Appleseeders are using and should use often, and I believe it is the goal one day to have a kid tell his class that he went to a couple of Appleseeds over Summer break and now he is a Rifleman.... And then the teacher asks.... Really Jimmy! What was your score? I hit Rifleman with a 242 in Waterman, IL. way back before you were born in 2018.

The best chance that we have at that is to "Be a Good Gun Owner" and to Appleseed as much as possible!!  O0
Garand69

42

WSMR 03-10 ...SAPPER STEEL!!!!

"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results." - General George S. Patton Jr

"One can covet success or one can covet being Right, but if he covets both, he will achieve neither" - Stimey


Do not fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have war......Let it start here.

God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right, even though I think it is HOPELESS.
-Chester W. Nimitz

B-Line

#8
November 28, 2010, 12:29:25 PM
It will be hard to overcome the amount of money George Soros is dedicating, to defeat our goals.
If we work as a team to teach the principles our Country was founded on, we have a chance. Our principles have not changed (but they have been weakened); it is up to the rest of us, to continue teaching our program to as many "new" people as we can.
Hopefully, our Dedication will make a difference!!!

TruTenacity

#9
November 28, 2010, 08:29:52 PM
Quote from: B-Line on November 28, 2010, 12:29:25 PM
It will be hard to overcome the amount of money George Soros is dedicating, to defeat our goals.
If we work as a team to teach the principles our Country was founded on, we have a chance. Our principles have not changed (but they have been weakened); it is up to the rest of us, to continue teaching our program to as many "new" people as we can.
Hopefully, our Dedication will make a difference!!!

O0

Well said.
"We are fighting for our country, for posterity perhaps.  On the success of this campaign the happiness or misery of millions may depend."  Henry Knox

"Let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap if we faint not."  Galatians 6:9

CSHR

#10
November 28, 2010, 08:53:27 PM
I guess it's up to me to point out......AS does great work!

"in the beginning, Fred....." had little 'nice' to say about the 'west coast state'........and we were first to have our own rocker and expect to hit 100 shoots in a year, this year...and so like TG said..

The days of throwing your money down a rathole and expecting some other "activist" group to make decisions about your freedoms and liberty are over.
These "activist groups" need to join us, because as far as I am concerned Appleseed is the norm in the light of the Founding Fathers. Soon we will be so big they can't ignore us.
So back to work and fill those lines with "closet gun owners" and everyone else. Taos Glock  :bow:


I kinda like that 'closet gun owners' tag.

CSHR
"But rightful Liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add "within the law" because the law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." -- Thomas Jefferson

Garand69

#11
November 28, 2010, 09:30:59 PM
hmmm.

Liberty has been lost in increments over decades...

Norming has been one of those effective tools to accomplish that....

Money has drastically held and then regained ground in the last few years.... that comes from those checks thrown down the "Rat Hole". I've already mentioned ground gained... Heller vs DC and McDonald vs Chi-Town, the 900lb Gorilla in the room way back when was able to squeeze a "Sunset Provision" to the AWB (yes you do compromise when your losing)

Appleseed all by itself, no matter how succesfull, will not stand a chance. Appleseed among others, including the 900lb gorilla, will make it happen.

As for California..... They, just like Illinois in this past election voted to hit another Iceberg. Regardless of how well either are doing in Appleseed terms... (IL is doing better a tad via the numbers  :cool2: ), they are losing.

If you all think that you can quit supporting those that tried to hold ground over the years (no matter how ineffectually) because Appleseed is the Cure All, you will be sadly mistaken, Appleseed is merely part of the prescription.

Read Fred's own word's that I attached above, and be a good Gun Owner.
Garand69

42

WSMR 03-10 ...SAPPER STEEL!!!!

"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results." - General George S. Patton Jr

"One can covet success or one can covet being Right, but if he covets both, he will achieve neither" - Stimey


Do not fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have war......Let it start here.

God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right, even though I think it is HOPELESS.
-Chester W. Nimitz

Castle Mountain

#13
November 29, 2010, 01:06:00 AM Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 01:15:47 AM by Castle Mountain
Read Fred's own word's that I attached above, and be a good Gun Owner.
[/quote]


I found Fred's article at the bottom of your earlier post.

Thanks

Cm
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam- will find a way or I will make one".
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."  one who has not qualified himself with the M-16 may not be considered to be a responsible citizen."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

"Terrorism is the best political weapon, for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death."
-- Adolf Hitler (1889-1945) German Nazi Dictator
 

"Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in

colycat

#14
November 29, 2010, 03:13:04 AM
 O0 O0 O0 O0

G,

If you lived behind the chedder curtain, I wonder what you truck would look like now ..:.. ..:.. ..:.. ..:..

Wisconsin will have concel carry within a year. And that's just the start.  We now control both houses and have the super Governor.  (we will be watching, though)


Quote from: Garand69 on November 28, 2010, 09:30:59 PM
hmmm.

Liberty has been lost in increments over decades...

Norming has been one of those effective tools to accomplish that....

Money has drastically held and then regained ground in the last few years.... that comes from those checks thrown down the "Rat Hole". I've already mentioned ground gained... Heller vs DC and McDonald vs Chi-Town, the 900lb Gorilla in the room way back when was able to squeeze a "Sunset Provision" to the AWB (yes you do compromise when your losing)

Appleseed all by itself, no matter how succesfull, will not stand a chance. Appleseed among others, including the 900lb gorilla, will make it happen.

As for California..... They, just like Illinois in this past election voted to hit another Iceberg. Regardless of how well either are doing in Appleseed terms... (IL is doing better a tad via the numbers  :cool2: ), they are losing.

If you all think that you can quit supporting those that tried to hold ground over the years (no matter how ineffectually) because Appleseed is the Cure All, you will be sadly mistaken, Appleseed is merely part of the prescription.

Read Fred's own word's that I attached above, and be a good Gun Owner.
"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value."   T Paine

100

Garand69

#15
November 29, 2010, 09:48:39 AM
ooops, Sorry Coly I forgot to mention the ground gained in WI this fall O0 I just hope the Illinoisans realize that being the only State in the Nation that does not have some form of carry, doesn't make us "Special" it makes us Fools! O0
Garand69

42

WSMR 03-10 ...SAPPER STEEL!!!!

"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results." - General George S. Patton Jr

"One can covet success or one can covet being Right, but if he covets both, he will achieve neither" - Stimey


Do not fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have war......Let it start here.

God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right, even though I think it is HOPELESS.
-Chester W. Nimitz

dart67eb

#16
November 29, 2010, 11:39:54 AM
Quote from: redneck on November 28, 2010, 12:27:09 AM
The NRA does know about us. I personally spoke to the NRA President about Appleseed and invited him to visit a shoot. He lives just a few miles from the Whittington Center outside Raton, NM. I sent him a flier and the Backwoods Home magazine with Appleseed on the cover. I never heard from him... but he knows about us.....

It would be nice if somebody up in MI got ahold of Ted Nugent.
Ignorance may be bliss, but it's not a virtue.

Garand69

#17
November 29, 2010, 11:53:21 AM
Quote from: dart67eb on November 29, 2010, 11:39:54 AM
Quote from: redneck on November 28, 2010, 12:27:09 AM
The NRA does know about us. I personally spoke to the NRA President about Appleseed and invited him to visit a shoot. He lives just a few miles from the Whittington Center outside Raton, NM. I sent him a flier and the Backwoods Home magazine with Appleseed on the cover. I never heard from him... but he knows about us.....

It would be nice if somebody up in MI got ahold of Ted Nugent.

Dart67,

I can assure that by now, he has been contacted several times, as have every gun group, gun guru, conservative talk radio host, etc. etc. etc.

For example, it took us several tries to break through to ISRA. Today we have an easier job at this because we have grown and have had a fair amount of coverage in major newspapers and a splash on the TV.

So, here is the Challenge to all....

Get on Rush Limbaugh on Open line Friday

Get Ted Nugent to a Shoot (I know for a fact he has been contacted several times and I believe he was thinking about attending at one point)

Get on a local talk radio show and get a good relationship going like we have with the Derry Brownfield Show.

This is all volunteer, and to be honest, I have made several attempts over the years to do all of the above, BUT, you may be the lucky one that gets through. So persevere and persist, We will be on all the Hip Shows sooner or later O0

Garand69

42

WSMR 03-10 ...SAPPER STEEL!!!!

"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results." - General George S. Patton Jr

"One can covet success or one can covet being Right, but if he covets both, he will achieve neither" - Stimey


Do not fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have war......Let it start here.

God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right, even though I think it is HOPELESS.
-Chester W. Nimitz

dart67eb

#18
November 29, 2010, 11:58:34 AM
I'll be on the John and Jack show at 8-9am this Friday on KWAM 990 Memphis.  You can listen online here. http://www.kwam990.com/the-variety-hour.aspx
Ignorance may be bliss, but it's not a virtue.

SavageShootr

#19
November 29, 2010, 09:26:41 PM
Quote from: dart67eb on November 29, 2010, 11:39:54 AM
It would be nice if somebody up in MI got ahold of Ted Nugent.

I think he moved to Texas earlier this year.
"Listen to everyone, read everything, and don't believe anything unless you can prove it."' B.C.
"It isn't like it is life or death...it is more important than that." MrPete

colycat

#20
November 29, 2010, 11:15:11 PM
Savage, you spoiler, you.  Ted was MI's last hope to respectability.

Will the last person to leave MI, please turn off the lights.
"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value."   T Paine

100

LayloPro

#21
November 29, 2010, 11:54:04 PM
 ;D ;D ;D @ Coly...... O0

Will the last person to leave MI, please turn off the lights.

Wasn't that supposed to be "Will the last normal person to leave.....?"  %) **) ;D :))

Yeah, Uncle Ted has been in Waco for a bit now......Having Mas Ayoob partake Here was a good thing.....more is gonna be better......

BTW, our "local" (Cali) EVP for the NRA-ILA approached us early this year to have us put our shooting schedule (for Cali only, sorry all) on their website's scrolling banner.....Bob210 handled that, so we have in-state exposure there as well.....the NRA -does- indeed know about us, they just aren't really sure about how to "deal" with us......Are we deluded whack jobs, or committed Patriots? They seem to be letting time & effort show them "what we are about".... @@)

No problem there..... 8) ;)

LLP
"The truth only hurts if you're guilty." 

"Fast / cheap / good....you only get 2....Your choice."

"Amateurs talk hardware. Professionals talk software. It doesn't matter what's in your hand or between your legs. It matters what's in your heart and in your mind." Lt Col. Dave Grossman.

Garand69

#22
November 29, 2010, 11:59:45 PM
If we could only get them to Moose Jaw!!! ;)
Garand69

42

WSMR 03-10 ...SAPPER STEEL!!!!

"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results." - General George S. Patton Jr

"One can covet success or one can covet being Right, but if he covets both, he will achieve neither" - Stimey


Do not fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have war......Let it start here.

God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right, even though I think it is HOPELESS.
-Chester W. Nimitz

Johnnyappleseed

#23
November 30, 2010, 12:43:29 PM
Regarding the RWVA sight in target --"Wanna be a Good Gunowner? ...Wanna Keep Your Freedom ?
                                         
                                                      The LEAST you can do is the following :.........
At one time we included this page in our AS packets . Then the word came down not to use it because we could be labeled as gun rights /rt wing etc.
This RWVA sight in target is great for your club club /shooting range . We hand it out often ,sometimes use it to help someone sight in or just hand it out with a suggestion to look it it over later ---- with the statement "copy both sides"

We would all be better off as a nation if EVERYONE would read and follow what is written on this RWVA sight in target .
Garand 69 has  wisely provided a link for us . Check it out.

JA
Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.
Calvin Coolidge
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