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Ramseur, (TWO OH EIGHT!) AAR

Started by Junior Birdman, February 26, 2008, 06:19:59 AM

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Junior Birdman

Some new things were tried at this RBC, results and recommendations to follow.

The COF was being tried out as a framework for the published RBC POI which should be in place within the next couple of weeks for SBs to use for their own RBCs.

We had 7 attendees initially, with 2 more arriving on Monday and another on Tuesday. (**1:This will bring about the usual discussion of whether or not we should allow part timers)

Sunday- Started off well, and we ran on time until we started shooting. (Delay until 1230 for local churches). We had two shooters on the line who were brand new, with virtually no experience with firearms whatsoever and they slowed the line down considerably. (We didn't have access to another line) (**2:This will, of course, bring about the same old discussion about whether or not to allow newbies to attend RBCs) (Maybe we'll settle it this time though!)

Every day started with "choir practice" where the shooters repeated the 4 safety rules, "safe rifle means", 6 steps, and range commands. This got the troops up to speed quickly and by the time they had to run the line they had the commands down pretty well and the tempo and cadence were perfect.

History was a bit long, I gave it too much detail to begin with, but we rotated history duties amongst the instructors and had the shooters "volunteer" to tell the story after we had done so, and after a couple of days of this they had a good working knowledge of the 19 April 1775 story and were more likely to go read it for themselves.

An attempt was made to spur a bit of "esprit de corps", and we had a rule that any time the shooters heard the word "Ramseur", they had to shout out "Two oh Eight!" (the class number). This started out a bit weak, but after a couple of days they really got into it. (The big test was Saturday night in the restaurant, but they really came through, but I think it frightened the other diners!) (Fred was even rendered speechless when he innocently said "Ramseur" during a talk to the troops on the first Sunday night and they responded with a loud "TWO OH EIGHT!"). I think this should become a Boot Camp staple as it does lend itself to "unit cohesion"

We used a laser bore sighter to demonstrate how breathing moved the rifle, looking for a vertical cycle while breathing. (Just had a piece of cardboard about 6 feet in front of the muzzle) This also worked for demonstrating getting NPOA to align with the target.  A great secondary effect was that since the shooters all wanted to see the red dot moving, they all moved back behind the muzzle, adding to the safety factor.

Shooting was actually good, right off the bat, which I would attribute to a lot of instruction up front accompanied by dry firing for quite a while. Lots of work on position building first and foremost, and I think it paid off. (The part timers missed all this, of course, and suffered for it)

We went heavy on "Carding the sights" to show the shooters how to acquire NPOA, and I think it got them on NPOA much faster, improving shooting more quickly also.

Likely an Appleseed first- we had ALL 10/22's on the line! A line boss's dream!

I was not able to run the clock hard enough because of the newbies on the line, and we ended behind on the COF by about half a day on Monday as a result.

Monday- We separated the two new shooters to the left side of the line and assigned 2 instructors to them for the day. This allowed the rest of the line to catch up on the COF, but at the cost of 2 less instructors. We shot 4 minute squares, CAQTS for repetition, a couple of AQTs and a Minute man Challenge.  "One Out", (Chet), and "Joker", (Todd) both shot Rifleman scores Monday afternoon. Talon shot Rifleman but had previously done it at home on his own after the September 08 Ramseur Appleseed.

Tuesday- I spent the day on the left hand side of the line with the newbies. "Choir Practice" didn't go as well as I'd hoped, and I had to chastise the shooters for not putting in enough effort. I expected them to be better than that, and they would be. They shot poorly, which is the usual story of Tuesday at an RBC, but having seen this before we didn't fret.

The shooters worked out on the 4 minute squares and some B&D helped identify problems. We had them shoot the Practice AQT targets, (2nd, 3rd, and 4th stage), and then some AQTs.  By the end of the day, the newbies could almost keep up with the main line and were "folded in" with them, including transitions, but we didn't wait for them, forcing them to speed up to keep up with the main line. They were shooting 8 moa groups but needed to learn the COF for the various targets and to shoot them in cadence to speed things up.

Wednesday- We shot the 25m squares with the centerfires to record zeroes before moving on to the KD range. Classroom work by Ornell included target detection and ranging, determining wind speed and value, correcting for wind, trajectory, etc, and we moved to the KD range after lunch where we gathered data out to 400 yards.  The line was about evenly divided between .223 and .30 shooters, so we were able to have them shoot with their 25m zeroes at 200 for the .30s and 300 for the .223s, then swap. Then the 300 shooters moved to 400 and the 200 shooters to 100 yards. Then they swapped again. This made for a quick KD course and we were able to finish getting data by 1700.

Thursday- Full Distance AQTs with sighters at each distance. This was accomplished in the same manner as the previous day, so we were back on the 25m line after lunch.  B&D was done, and we've come to expect a lot of flinch, buck, jerk after the shooters spend a few days with the rimfires, then transition to big bores. We worked hard to cure them of such and moved on to 4 minute squares to tighten them back up, and then AQT's for practice.

Friday was mock Appleseed day, and we did a few things differently. First of all, we did a lot less training on how to run an Appleseed and a lot more on how to engage the shooters and look for problems and correct them.  I believe they will learn how to run an Appleseed in due time, on the trail. But I grew weary of begging the new instructors to get out there and engage the shooters. I know it is from lack of experience and therefore confidence, and so I sought to fix this by going heavy on the line training.

To accomplish this we held a brief class where the duties of those running an Appleseed were outlined so there'd be no doubt what was required. I listed the duties in two categories: "Line Duties", (Shoot Boss, Line Boss, RSO/ LSO, and instructors), and "Other Duties", (Admin table, "Meet & Greet", Parking Lot Patrol, Firing Line Patrol, Safety / Line Command briefer, History, etc)

We then put half of the attendees down as shooters while the other half acted as instructors. I had prepared cards in advance covering 20 firing line errors, one to each card. When the line was assembled, each "shooter" got a card describing an error which they then displayed. The "instructor" was then required to diagnose the problem and correct it. When this was accomplished, the shooter passed his card to the shooter on his right and took a new card. This continued until all the errors were caught by the "instructors" and the teams swapped positions and went through the cards again until all were covered by the second set of "instructors"

The shooters could either live fire on a target, or simply dry fire or say "bang" to simulate the shot while being diagnosed. This sped up the process.

We then had the attendees diagnose various target line problems to acquaint them with what they would see the next day. All the while we had various types of rifles grounded on the line for them to practice checking for safety, and also tested the RSOs by having someone fiddle with a rifle after they'd passed that particular rifle but before the "Is the line clear?" call to see if they'd catch it.

I believe this method GREATLY improved the attendees performance during the Appleseed event. We have been lax in giving them the practice necessary for them to confidently engage the Appleseed shooters and look for and fix problems. I highly recommend the adoption of this technique at all RBCs.

To end the day we shot a couple of AQTs and had a team shoot for fun which required a little thinking about trajectory. I placed 5 sets of three clay pigeons at 100 yards and had 5 stakes driven into the 25 yard berm with 1 inch explosive discs attached. We divided up into 3 teams of three BC attendees and 2 teams of two instructors each. The COF was to shatter all 3 clays before you could shoot at the explosive discs.
Lots of noise and smoke on that one!  Big fun to end the program.

The RBC had 10 shooters. 2 had shot Rifleman score prior to coming, Talon and the BC Groupie, Cook From Brooklyn.  4 more shot Rifleman while there, and 2 more were close. (200)  "One Out" shot an exact 210 his first time, and fortunately for him the creek was dry!

Friday evening we briefed for the next days events and assigned duties for everyone.

Saturday- 762BBQ arrived and was assigned Shoot Boss duties. We had 27 shooters on the line until noon. We then split the line up, with half each on the upper range and lower range. This was done to allow more instructors to get line experience. (2 line bosses, 4 RSOs, etc)

There was a noted disconnect between the SB and the new instructors since they had never met before. More confusion on the line because of this, since the RSO's had nothing to make them stand out in the crowd of shooters and at times the SB didn't know who was who.

I have come to realize that several things have to change:

First, the SB for the RBC should not be the SB for the subsequent Appleseed.  The week takes its toll and I was pretty whacked by the end of the week and in no way mentally ready to SB the Appleseed.

Second, the Appleseed following an RBC is nothing like a regular Appleseed. It has problems all its own and should be treated as such. The SB needs to take into account that he is primarily training IITs and then secondarily running an Appleseed. For this reason he needs to have a bit of familiarity with the IITs before the shoot, at least knowing who they are and what their strengths and weaknesses are. I suggest that the Appleseed SBs attend the Friday Mock Appleseed event to gain this familiarity.

Third, we need a way to identify our RSO/ LSOs during the Appleseed. Since giving them red hats is out of the question, we discussed providing day glow orange hats as loaners for the events, just to keep track of who's who. I like it.

I also think it should become standard operating procedure to split the line when possible to give the IITs more experience on the line per event. This should be done where it can be accommodated  and not just at specific "training ranges" like Taccoa where they have multiple bays which force the use of many lines.

It seems like we're getting a lot fewer "walk ons" for the Appleseeds this season. I don't know why, maybe it's the extra 5 bucks at the door. But at any rate, it's a good thing as we can more readily predict the totals with nearly all the shooters being pre-regs.

Expect good shooters who use the rimfires the first 3 days to develop FBJ problems when they transition to the big bores for the KD shooting. B&D is likely needed before they go back to 25m.



Things that went well:

The COF worked well, and with a bit of tweaking, should serve as a basis for the published RBC POI.

Use of laser bore sighter for step 3 and NPOA demonstrations was great for reasons given above.

The Mock Appleseed day was great with the new emphasis on training the attendees to engage the shooters and look for problems and correct them. The use of "line error cards" was a great training aid.

Esprit de Corp was improved using the "shout outs" and I think the shooters will keep in touch, even though they come from diverse areas of the country. Mentoring them should be a bit easier than before as they have some pride in who they are.

Repetition of the history every day gave the attendees a good working knowledge and base to start from on their own trek for more knowledge about 19 April, 1775.

Having "Wildman" as a Range Boss was a big load off my shoulders! Things were ready when needed and put away when not. A Range Boss is a big help on logistics and should be employed whenever possible.

Having Designated Doug as an Admin Boss took a load off too. Nice to have good people working behind the scenes.

We had plenty of instructors to help out, with a great shooter/ instructor ratio.

Sherry's Restaurant!

The new shower!

The porta-jon got serviced before the Apleseed!




Things that didn't go so well:

Interruptions due to people coming in days late, causing a drain on instructors to try to catch them up. This was handled well this time due to the good instructors numbers. Had we been thin on instructors it could have been different.

Having absolute newbies on the line, taking away instructors to "baby sit" them and slowing down the main line. (Let the discussions begin!)

We need to address "Rogue Red Hats".  We had a Red Hat show up for the Appleseed, (Saturday only), who was nowhere near current, didn't work with the team, and caused confusion on the line by using non standard calls, and trying to teach things that we hadn't yet covered.
I'll start the fight by saying that I think that if you are not approved to be there in advance by the Shoot Boss, that you really shouldn't be there, and especially wearing a Red hat and trying to instruct. We owe it to our shooters to present a uniform, coordinated effort on the line, and instructors should show up not only prepared and current, but approved by the SB to be there.

I forgot to take the trash out of the drums before leaving......sorry Wildman.

Comments?   JB



















"But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever." John Adams

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them. Fredrick Douglass

Fred


    Heck of a good report, in every respect. The new "Orange Hats" will be ordered in bulk, later today! (It is intended that these be loaners only for the AS and to be returned afterward, as most of the wearers are "Red Hat" material, and will be using the Orange Hats only once or twice. In fact, maybe we'll let them keep them, and turn them in for their Red Hats when they "make the grade"?)

    The comments about 7.62BBQ as Shoot Boss make me wonder why we don't pick a BC instructor to be SB on that weekend for the reasons you suggest - surely Ornell would have been a good choice?

     And I believe we should ride the new instructors a little harder (discretely and privately, of course) about being "proactive" on the firing line.

     They should be like chickens, aggressively looking for "bugs" on the Appleseeders.

     We should also pound into their heads that if a senior instructor takes over and does something, that's when they should REALLY be listening and watching - because it's done mainly for them to learn.

     More later. Good BC, Ornell and JB - "another one in the can". :D
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...

ornell

Yes, actually I should have been the SB for the Appleseed. The idea being,  I was in the flow for the week, yet not burned out by running the RBC.

I thought the POI/COF was outstanding. Other than a few small adjustments, I am of the opinion we now have a std RBC POI/COF.
It was a benefit to have 2 seasoned instructors working as the lead team, which should be duplicated if possible at other RBCs.
Orange hats will solve some line issues. Great idea!
Splitting the line for more training opportunities should be std for the Saturday Appleseed from now own. (if possible due to  range limitations.)
The esprit de corp worked for more than just bonding the students, it was a great way to get their attention.

Now there are a few things to address:
I understand instructors like to renew friendships but, If you are in attendance, you are working on the line coaching or you are not on the line. Period, no exceptions.

Late arrivals are a problem. It needs to be STRONGLY discouraged. Further, IMO if you cannot arrive be Monday AM, then you need to pick another camp. It short changes the students who have arrived on time, by taking an instructor from them.

Rogue redhats..... This was a problem.
QuoteI'll start the fight by saying that I think that if you are not approved to be there in advance by the Shoot Boss, that you really shouldn't be there, and especially wearing a Red hat and trying to instruct. We owe it to our shooters to present a uniform, coordinated effort on the line, and instructors should show up not only prepared and current, but approved by the SB to be there.
I AGREE!
IMO the big boss should bring correction to this instructor as I am sure Fred is the only person to which he will listen.  He is not current, not a team player, he needs to get with the program or move on.

IMO people who attend a RBC must have the prerequisite of Appleseed attendance. Absolute newbies are difficult in any group situation, is a RBC the best place for them to learn?

Lastly, the people who have attended more than one RBC or Applessed have a tendency to buck the poi/cof. They have been there, done that, and want to jump ahead or do there own thing. It should be made perfectly clear: If you are in attendance, you will follow the cof. NO exceptions.
It was a great RBC & I am looking forward to the next one.  ;D



Nickle

Well, another one done, and in the books.

I'll need the info on the new Instructors, and I should have 2 of them already signed up for 4/19.

I like the Orange hat idea, and maybe we want to have Orange Hats for the IIT's (even the ones getting there on the trail), so we can distinguish between them and the Red Hats, and between them and the students at an Appleseed.

The laser bore sighter is a good idea, and I should be ordering one for myself shortly. I'll source out a reasonable one and post the info.

From my own experience, I concur that the real issues to teach the RBC students is the mechanics of the Instructor job, not how to run an Appleseed. Overview on how one is run is fine, but they can and will learn the details as they go..

JB, I'm looking forward to the Proctor IC all the more now.
They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about, having been employed as Rangers against the Indians and Canadians and this country being much covered with wood, and hilly, is very advantageous for their method of fighting. . . . ".  Lord Percy

Sounds like New Englanders to me.

wildman

No problem Jr. Birdman the trash will get taken care of. This is a great time to compliment all the folks who worked to make the boot camp happen. These things take a lot of effort by many people. It is a pleasure to work with such outstanding adults. The level of professionalisim shown by the instructors was outstanding. Hopefully next February I'll be able to help out again. I am lookin' foward to it.
This is my rifle. There are many like it but this one is mine.... "My Rifle" the creed of a US Marine by MG WH Rupertus,USMC