6.5 Grendel

[The Kid]

Hey Folks,

Does anyone have any experience reloading the 6.5 Grendel Cartridge? From the research I have put together a 27.7 grain charge of IMR 4895 behind a 123 Sierra Match King out of lapua brass should do the trick. Any confirmation on those numbers would be greatly appreciated.  If it is any consolation I am running a 28 inch barrel out of a semi auto AR-15 platform.

Thanks in advance,

TK

[jmdavis]

28" barrel on an AR?


OK, not a mistake. They make it. That is one heckuva barrel though!

[The Kid]

I couldn't let Hawkeye show me up with his 1917.   

[marrandy]

You really need to ask on the Grendel forum.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=11

[jmdavis]

I couldn't let Hawkeye show me up with his 1917.   

Uh, it may take more than that. I hope that you bring it this weekend, I would be interested in seeing it.



Congratulations, by the way, on the WWII marksmanship field shoot. I hear you and Lawman cleaned up.


Mike

[The Kid]

Hopefully I can it is being "repaired". 

Thanks,  it was a blast.  What I have come to learn about field shooting is that it is all about concentration.  If your mind isn't in the game you won't succeed. See you this weekend my friend.

TK

[sparks1]

 When I had my Grendel I found that the Grendel forum was a good start for reloading. However...their load data is incomplete and want to have you experiment and send it in for the other Grendel owners.

 As with any load...start low and work up looking for pressure signs. If you do not know how, then do not use a "wildcat" cartridge. This being said, I think your load is a good start. Only your rifle will tell if it is the right recipe.

I sold my Grendel upper and got a Savage 10FCP HS in .308, then I ordered a Lothar Walther drop-in barrel in 6.5 Grendel for it. This thing rocks !!!! No recoil to speak of, and has produced a couple 3/4" groups @ 200yds.  I use it for long range varminting and fun shoots out to 500 yds. Won't tell the load, as it is a bolt gun,(they take more pressure than your semi-auto) but the 123 SMK, Lapua brass and a CCI primer are basic ingredients.

 BTW...H4895 fills the case and you might be compressing loads. I use a ball powder.

 Good luck

[The Kid]

I just seated an empty case (no powder) to get the correct length on my seating die.  When I pulled the round out it has mushroomed the neck from the force of seating the bullet.  The dies are made by Redding so I doubt that is the source. Does anyone have any experience with this in other cartridges? Will Fire forming correct this issue?  The rounds chamber but are difficult to extract I assume that once they have fired the will form to the chamber and extract cleanly.  I am just a little bit nervous about what it is doing to the brass.  It is a little nerve racking playing around with Lapua Brass.  Mistakes add up quick.

TK

[sparks1]

  Are you chamfering the inside of the neck ? I know with a flatbase bullet it matters alot, with boat-tails it should not be as big a deal. I always trim first and then chamfer the necks. Is this new brass?? always check and trim new brass too. I know it's Lapua, but they can make mistakes too.

I would not tell you to fire the round that is mushroomed , even if it will chamber. your call...but brass is cheap compared to eyes and a rifle.

[The Kid]

Thanks for all of the input you guys provided both over PM's and here.  It was greatly appreciated. The problem was solved. I cannot explain the cause of the mushrooming but after disassembling my dies and reassembling them they preformed flawlessly.  For those of you that own a 6.5 and are interested in reloading be aware that you will end up compressing powder if you use H4895. It was recommended that in the future I (we) use Win 748 with a 123 grain bullet.  Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about reloading the 6.5.

TK

[sparks1]

 Ah yes...talking to Bill A. Excellent fellow       I called once during noon lunch and Bill answered the phone. It ended up being such a long call, I had to end it as my lunch break was over. Bill answered the phone in lieu of his receptionist, as she was at lunch.
He does like to talk about his caliber brainchild...IMHO it's WAY better than the 6.8 for distance shooting, but will never be (and not intended to be) a 1000yd round. More like 600m.

Glad you got this going for you...enjoy.

[marrandy]

IMHO it's WAY better than the 6.8 for distance shooting, but will never be (and not intended to be) a 1000yd round. More like 600m.

I'm curious.  What's your definition, quantatively, of a 1,000 yard round ?

Shots within 20"( 10" radius) aka Appleseeds aim ? 

or something different ?

[Heavy Cav]

I would say that a 1000 yard round would retain alot of stopping power at that range.

.308 and 30-06 do that.  A .223 will go that far but lacks power.  6.5 at 1000?  Would have to see some data.

[The Kid]

The rifle that I have put at 12 inch group at 1600 yards.  I believe it goes subsonic around 1400-1500 yards with hand loads.  Commercial loads go subsonic at 1200. Here are the groups the rifle did at 300 (first photo-look up high and to the left with the two holes one of which-the upper one- has two bullets though it).  The rifle and the round are certainly capable. Past 1000 yards the 6.5 has more stopping power.  I believe the 6.5 has close to the same energy past 500.  The second photo is the group the rifle did at 500. 

Note: First picture is a 1/2 inch group at 300 yards img_0170
        Second picture is a 3/4 inch group at 500 yards. img_0177


TK

[marrandy]

Note: First picture is a 1/2 inch group at 300 yards img_0170
       Second picture is a 3/4 inch group at 500 yards. img_0177

TK

I have a Grendel 6.5, for a couple of years now.  Its a good round with good ballistics.  Sparks1 & HeavyCav.  The round has been around since 2004.  There is plenty of internet information denoting its  'still supersonic at 1,000+ yards' , its ft/lbs. compared to the 5.56, 6.8SPC and the 7.62x51 at various ranges.  Google it.

But still...Two rounds is essentially worthless.  I can get as good a 2 round group with most rifles if I send dozens of rounds downrange.

Show us a a 5 round, no, better still a 10 round group.  I'll allow obvious flyers.


Some people that shoot the Grendel 6.5 at 1,000 yards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSGiiUln8U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSGiiUln8U

Here is a 600 yard 5 round group in October 2007.   http://www.6mmbr.com/6brBlog.html

6mm Dasher (Light Gun), Varget powder, and Hornady 105-grain Amax bullets.

[The Kid]

Those are both 3 round groups. Two rounds went through to top hole on the 300 yard target which is pretty easy to see.  We couldn't find the 3rd round on the 500 yard target and with 7x7 targets we figured it had to have gone into one of those other holes.  But we couldn't tell even when we were there looking at the target.  I might just have to head out tomorrow just for you my friend.  I will put a 5 round group down range. This post was by no means to flaunt any shooting ability, it was intended to show what the round is capable of. 

Is that your group? 

TK

[jmdavis]

Note: First picture is a 1/2 inch group at 300 yards img_0170
       Second picture is a 3/4 inch group at 500 yards. img_0177

TK

But still...Two rounds is essentially worthless.  I can get as good a 2 round group with most rifles if I send dozens of rounds downrange.

But "the kid" didn't send dozens of rounds down range and since he was working a shoot with 20 inexperienced shooters he was limited to lunch time to do this shooting.

He was at the range to test his ammo and get his zeroes for 200, 300 and 500 yards. These were groups with new untested reloads. I for one am impressed. Good Job!

[marrandy]

Oh please...

No other information was provided.

You must know what the situation is on gun group forums and mailing lists.

-----------
I can shoot hanging golf balls at 500 yards every time with a standard rifle and ball ammo and get .5" or less groups at 800 yards...yada...yada.
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I spent a year before deciding on the Grendel 6.5.  That was about 2-years ago.  I have already stated it is a good round. (Perhaps I should have said a very good round).

If you have a very good rifle, a great recipe and are an outstanding shooter, then there is no reason you cannot get excellent groups with the Grendel 6.5.  That's why I posted the video links.

My rifle is mediocre, I use commercial ammo and am a mediocre shot.  Appleseed think otherwise,  but that is a different issue.

Most shooting competitions I have read about use 5 or 10 round groups.  The larger the group, the better average ignoring flyers.  That's just a fact.

I would like to know his rifle setup, ammo recipe etc.  I will keep it in mind if/when I choose to reload and get a better rifle.

You can't outshoot your rifle/ammo combo.

That's also another fact, that so many people apparently, don't understand.

Traditionally, I would say YMMV.  But in this case, that would be totally incorrect as the maths and physics stands and is irrefutable.

PS.  I'm sure you are on the Grendel 6.5 forum ?  If not, join and post your results and recipes.  Information is king.  The more shared experience, the better.

[sparks1]

 I'm not here to "Dis" another mans rifle, shooting ability, group size, etc. The man asked about some reloading conflicts and got the answers he wanted. This is no place to get into an argument about the previous posts. Take it to another forum and hash it out there.

I'm sorry if my opinion about the 6.5G caused this to expand beyond the original post. If you want my opinion about a better 1k cartridge I will gladly discuss it via a PM.
BTW...If I deem the PM to be confrontational, don't expect to hear back from me. I don't have, or make time for such nonsense.

Sparks1 over and out.

[marrandy]

'The Kid'

Yes, PM me about your Grendel 6.5 experiences and if you have a different  'handle'  on the Grendel 6.5 Forum.

Regards...Martin.