New York Times Article & Video

[9mm4545]

I believe that the NYT would happily promote an "Old Glory" brand of toilet paper, right next to the "Constitution" brand, and the special double-ply, extra soft version with a picture of a Founding Father on every sheet. Unhappily, it would probably sell quite well to a certain percentage of their readership.

[PHenry]

My mother would read NYT Mag. She would also be horribly offended by such a product. Always remember that most of the people we would call "liberals" are good and decent people who are simply misguided or emotionally-based people who tend to be easily led. There are many potential Appleseeders in this demographic - know this and keep it in mind when thinking of this group.

I have seen many a rifle-hating liberal mended by the power of Liberty. I have effected this change, or caused it to happen myself and know this to be true. As Appleseeders we must reach out to all comers. The traditions of the Founders appeal to a wide range of people - they simply need to be exposed to them.

That is the magic of Appleseeds. May it draw them all to our worthy cause, that they might be enlightened by the words of a group of New England shopkeepers and gentleman farmers who held Liberty in such esteem as to think it more valuable than life itself.

Liberty knows no politics.

[Follow Thru]

I'm sorry Fred, I'm confused with your reply to the respect for the American Flag. How do you know that this individual is a NYT reader. Yes, there may be sensitivity behind the message but for a just reason. It does not have anything to with political beliefs.

I know this n2oguy, and he does not read the NYT. The first time was when you posted the article. So, I guess you could say "NYT readers are highly conscious of and very sensitive as to how the American flag should be treated". If you want to look at it this way.

Isn't that what Appleseed about? Education and awareness. This individual is doing what you did with Appleseed; educate and be aware. I think both of you are doing the right.

Click on that link which was included with the message. It is a shame that so many do not know how to handle the flag. He feels the same as you about how this country has gone off course. I'm just glad that I meet this n20guy. And I'm glad to have had the experience attending a few Appleseed events.

[techres]

For those who are unaware, that is not a flag in the picture.  It is a towel.  The shooter was asked to take the towel and put it up as it could be misunderstood.  At some point, however, the photographer got that towel under the rifle and got a picture of it.

So, to be clear, two items:

1. It is a towel, not a flag.  If it were a flag, the SB (an ex-DI IIRC) would have taken the shooter behind the woodshed. 
2. The shooter was asked to remove it, to put it away and eventually did so.  However the picture happened at some point and the resulting image has created the exact anger that the NYT had hoped to create.

No flag was desecrated or disrespected at any time, ever.

Just so that you know,
Techres

[Follow Thru]

This email is for techres. I ask for you to look on the link n2oguy included. Here's a portion:

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

and there's more...please look at it. Yes, I know....the majority of us do not know this. It's a shame manufactures are allowed to do this. No one is pointing fingers or saying you or anyone at this event did anything wrong. It's just a matter of educating. Believe me it happened to me. And I was upset and did not believe this until I did my homework. Maybe in the future you may look at the exhibit of the flag differently.

[franklinfarmer]

I must be missing something here, but my interpretation was that the NYT was using the picture as a visual illustration of the (in their opinion) undesirable or even unsavory connection which Appleseed allegedly encourages between firearms and patriotism.  I think it's as simple as that.  They didn't mean to make anyone angry about treatment of the flag one way or the other.

I also hate to throw another wrench in the works, but I think we would be well served to stick to the real issues of the heritage Appleseed explicitly considers part of its mission and which predate questions of nationalism, flags, and even the constitution.  April 19, 1775 and the revolution that *came before it* had to do with independence among the people (which could exist precisely because they did not need the nationalism of the British government or any of the services it offered) and self-government.  

Independence, liberty, and self-government.  I shudder at the revelation which will come to our "corps" if we realize the magnitude of the task set before us, but I think it's unavoidable.  Getting people to follow some rules about how to treat a piece of colored cloth would be a lot easier.

[n2oguy]

   It looks like I started some controversy with my post, that's good. I joined the Appleseed Project because I think it is a good way to get  the people and "wake the country up". I became an instructor for that same reason. Now let's get all that junk out of the way about who I am, and what I read. First, I don't read the NYT. I read the article online because Fred sent me an e-mail about it.
   Second, I am a 72 year old male living in Va. I believe in the Constitution and feel humbled when I think about what the Founders had to give up just so we can bicker on this forum.
That being said let's start by all of us taking our heads out of our butts and start anew. I admit when I saw the pic.my temples started to pound and I was pissed. If it looked like I was trying to single someone out that is not the case.I was trying to do what Appleseed does-educate.
I once saw something about bringing a teachable attitude and leaving ego at home. That sounds like a good rule for these forums. All I'm asking you folks is go on the links below and see if  there is  anything you could learn from them.



http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#USFC
   
                  Thanks, n2oguy
 

[Rimshot]

I'm sorry Fred, I'm confused with your reply to the respect for the American Flag. How do you know that this individual is a NYT reader. Yes, there may be sensitivity behind the message but for a just reason. It does not have anything to with political beliefs.

Maybe I'm wrong but I interpreted Fred's post as a sarcastic way to say that the demographic that reads the NYT regularly and identifies closely with the opinions of its reporters and editorial staff wouldn't know the flag code from a frankfurter.   Even before Techres gave some back story, I was convinced that the picture was staged and that the photographer was insinuating that Appleseed was attempting to link violence to patriotism/nationalism in a time when east and west coast pop culture seems to be pushing for global homogenization.  I would feel safe gambling that the person staging the shot was unaware of the portion of the code that you cited above, especially given how often it's violated on a daily basis.  I'm glad to learn that the shooter with this particular piece of gear was educated and thanks to n2oguy for posting the links.  Lord knows I could use a refresher.