couple questions

[DeborahG]

Just purchased a sling for my rifle, should the thumb loop be facing towards or away from the rife? The package didn't show. Also what do you wear for rainy weather?

Thanks
DeborahG

[HPT]

I'll assume that you have a military web sling.  Here is a very good explanation:

http://www.ray-vin.com/tech/websling/webslinghelp.htm


For rain I use a poncho from the camping department of Bass Pro Shops.  I carry several large garbage bags that I put around my range bag and my rifle, targets, gun case and/or spare rifle.  I dry out easier than some of the equipment so I consider the garbage bags the most important.

[DeborahG]

Hi HPT

Actually it's not a military sling, sorry I wasn't clearer. It's a Winchester "Razor" sling I purchased at WalMart and has a "Thumb-Loop" for (as it says) firearm control, safety, carrying comfort--ah maybe the comfort part answers my question, outside.

Thanks also for the inclement weather info also.

DeborahG

[HPT]

I found a good picture of your sling on the Gander Mountain web site.  I agree that the thumb loop should go to the outside.   

[mgh]

Thank You HPT!

I was about ready to throw my military web sling in the trash I was so frustrated with it.  The pictures and description you linked to is exactly what I needed!  Suddenly, it all makes sense 

[HPT]

Slings are something that seem simple until you start using them.  When I started using the leather and web military slings for High Power competitions I felt like a complete idiot.  I always try to help out when I see someone fighting with their sling.

There is even a whole book called "Service Rifle Slings" by Zediker so we are not the only ones who need some sling help.
HPT

[WY_Not]

hehehehe Just wait till you try and rig up a 1907 sling (aka National Match Service Rifle Slings).
http://www.turnersling.com/high-power-competition-gear.html

How to Attach the Model of 1907 Sling
http://www.turnersling.com/faq_how_attach.html

How to Use the Model of 1907 Sling
http://www.turnersling.com/faq_how_use.html

[HPT]

Good info!  I can vouch for the quality of the Turner National Match slings.  I have used them for 15 years in High Power and cannot think of a single complaint.

Here is one more resource for 1907 (Leather) sling use:

http://www.ray-vin.com/tech/slinghelp/slinghelp.htm

[TruTenacity]

A couple YouTube links:

Demonstration with a Turner Saddlery Sling and an AR15.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaRCFpH27-w&feature=fvw

Demonstration using a web sling on a CMP M1 Garand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRPfj-6bRZM&NR=1

I'm note sure if these links address any questions, but they were helpful to me.

[SoxInCincy]

Hey Deborah

As a "seasoned veteran" of the rainy appleseeds (2 for 2 so far!), I'll offer some advice on the rain side.  HPT and the gang dumped a lot of good info out there for you on the slings already. Looks like I have some reading on the 1907 to do myself....

At the events that I was at, it didn't seem to matter much what rain gear people brought, they were getting soaked.  My recommendation is dress for the temps.  A lot of rain gear is not breathable causing you to get really hot and steamy inside there.  In the hot, humid days this can be a killer making you more uncomfortable then they are worth.  For these days, I'd say go for a nylon or poly long sleeve shirt (under armor, Nike dryFit, etc) and similar material pants (loose uninsulated warm up pants) or shorts (think soccer shorts). 

On the cold days, that rain gear isn't so bad.  Just remember stay away from cotton in the winter.  In the hiking world there's a simple saying... cotton kills.  cotton, when wet, looses all insulating value.  Plus, cotton doesn't wick moisture away from the body.  Instead it holds it against you keeping you from getting warm.  Wool, nylon, poly... these are much better.  This includes socks and undergarments.....  Non-cotton fleeces do awesome for warmth in rain.

However, my number one suggestion for rain is bring a tarp.  You'll be spending a lot of time in prone position, laying on the ground.  The tarp is an absolute life saver.  For examples of the mud that can insue, see the miamisburg, OH June event and march event after action reports.

Also, Ziploc bags are your friend!  After my first appleseed in the rain, I put everything in Ziploc bags for my second... except for my ammo.  Unfortunately, this yielded ammo problems for me so I would recommend putting your ammo in a Ziploc too.   I prefer the ones with a zipper, as they're quick and easy when your rushing to the line or covered in mud. Of course, a trashbag around your stuff is also a big help.

Hope that helps!  With all the fun I've had at rainy appleseeds, I'm not convinced that a sunny one could be any better. 

[Romeo's Hero]

A great thing that I found for instructing in the rain is the military issue Gortex (you can get them at Army Surplus stores - or you can buy Gortex from REI and other places) I would recommend scotch guarding the jacket again as the pants did an excellent job of keeping me dry but the water soaked through the elbows when I was on the ground. I also got a pair of water proof boots and they kept my feet completely dry it was great.

[HPT]

SoxInCincy and Romeo's Hero know what they are talking about.  One big thing I learned while I was in the Special Forces (actually I watched a movie about SF) is to always have a couple pairs of dry socks and if possible a second pair of shoes/boots.  You can die from wet feet.  Switch those wet socks and have a pair drying.

In cold weather I have learned the value of fleece.  Sox is dead-on about ventilation.  My cold-weather hunting gear is Under Armour long johns followed by fleece followed by a thin waterproof layer.   It's half the bulk and weight of my previous gear and far warmer.

Looking forward to a few cold, snowy Appleseeds this Winter!

[slim]

I would recommend scotch guarding the jacket again as the pants did an excellent job of keeping me dry but the water soaked through the elbows when I was on the ground.

DO NOT spray Scotchgard on your Gore-Tex!

Gore-Tex has little holes in it to let hot, wet air escape and if you Scotchgard it, it'll hold all that stuff in making you wet and hot. While they claim it to be "waterproof" it is not. It is "water-resistant." It will do fine, provided you're standing or crouching in a light to moderate rain. Once you make contact with the ground and water is able to fill up those little holes, the system stops working. You will get wet. Gore-Tex is awesome in the snow since frozen water is too big to penetrate the little holes. You won't get soaked unless you sit somewhere for a long time and the snow melts. Military-issue Gore-Tex is great for cool, rainy days where you're not laying on the ground. It is not issued as a rain suit, it's issued as an outer layer to protect against wind and moisture.
 
If you're going to be in contact with the ground, it's hot, or the rain is heavy, you're better off doing as SoxInCincy said and dressing for the temperature and realizing you're going to get wet. I've seen Gore-Tex, rubber suits, Frog Togs style suits and many, many ponchos. Those will all keep you moderately dry. It's important to remember the rain is just water. It won't hurt you... or your equipment!   

[Romeo's Hero]

Hey Slim - Thanks for the heads up before I ruined it   , I was just trying to figure out a way to get better water protection from it    - really appreciate the info   

Deborah - I was at Wal Mart yesterday and looked at the sling that you just purchased and I don't believe that it will work in a supportive manner  . The sling is designed for comfort while carrying the rifle but not for providing support while shooting, the neoprene-like material that is on the strap has a LOT of flex and that flex does not allow the sling to function to increase stability because it changes length. Your best bet is to get a canvas US GI, or the 1907,  sling and have someone help you with properly affixing it to the rifle and using in the loop or hasty sling position.  I have seen the Winchester slings on the line and 100% of the time shooters will switch out to one of the web slings. If I was you I would return it if you still have the packaging.

[Wheeler44]

As a 'seeder that has spent the last 30 years working outside in the Pacific Northwest (it rains a little out this way)..I recommend Filson wear ( made in Seattle WA)..It is waxed canvas duck (cotton) and it is by far the best and most durable rainwear on the market...That said..also apply plenty of layers...and an extra set of socks can really improve a "bad" day..

W44

added:

I have seen the Winchester slings on the line and 100% of the time shooters will switch out to one of the web slings. If I was you I would return it if you still have the packaging.

This was the case for two shooters at Estacada a couple of weeks ago....IIT Stewhoo once tried to "Tighten up" his neoprene carry sling...When it snapped he had an accidental discharge...So yes, return the thing and find one better .

[DeborahG]

WOW Thanks for all of the info you guys. Where do I find web or 1907 slings? Had the packaging now I just need to find it.

Definitely not afraid to get wet. But figure some protection couldn't hurt.

My niece and I are definitely looking forward to August! See you there.

[HPT]

The Appleseed Store has fine web slings for $12.50

http://www.appleseedstore.flyingcart.com/

[slim]

You can order the sling on the link above or.... since you'll be going in Ohio we could probably have one lined up for you. I'd say if you get in contact with the Shoot Boss or one of the instructors at the event you're going to, they'd have you all squared away before the event starts. 

You're also going to need a set of 1 1/4" sling swivels. Those can be found at Wal-Mart, Dick's, Bass Pro, Gander Mtn., etc. They'll probably be hanging right next to that really cool thumbhole sling you bought! (Don't throw that thing away, they're actually really nice for lugging around a heavy rifle all day long.)

Hey Slim - Thanks for the heads up before I ruined it   , I was just trying to figure out a way to get better water protection from it    - really appreciate the info    

No problem. The best way to get protection from the rain is to fold up that Gore-Tex jacket, put it back in your range bag then bust out some of that waxed canvas duck Wheeler44 was talking about!

I love my GI Gore-Tex, but it's almost not even worth wearing when it's 65+ degrees outside. It's not "rain gear" like people think it is. It's meant to be an outer shell that covers several layers of clothing. It's actually issued as part of what's called the ECWS or Extreme Cold Weather System and while it will provide "some" protection from rain, you're supposed to put your poncho on over it when it rains hard. Keep that in mind!   

[WY_Not]

The links in my original post will take you to the place to get a 1907 style sling. Turner slings are tough to beat.

WY_Not