Why do you check, check, recheck things while reloading??

[Old Dog]

I loaded 200 rounds of .45 ACP this afternoon.

I checked the cases when resizing (looking for cracks, sharp/weak spots in the case mouth).

I checked the cases again when "belling" the case mouth so the lead bullets would seat okay (looking for the same things).

I checked the cases when the primers were seated (two of them were noticeably "light" on pressure required to seat the primer).  On the two that felt funny I tapped the edge of the rim on the table and one primer fell out.  Find it while reloading so it won't bite you while shooting.

I put the powder in.  I always check the powder amount by looking down in the case with a small maglite kept at the table for that purpose.  Everything was okay on the first couple of boxes (I also weigh every 10th powder charge to make sure the powder measure doesn't drift).  I set the bullets in and seated them (I only use a very slight crimp, just enough to remove the small amount the case is belled to allow easy bullet seating).  While inspecting them I ran across two with small cracks in the case mouth and set them aside.  How many inspections is that?  I pulled the bullets got two more cases and put primers in them and since they were in my hand I put poder in them and set them in a case holder/tray.

I repeated the powder for the next 100 rounds and saw my two cases that replaced the those two with the split case mouths.  I picked the tray up and put powder in them.  I got my flashlight out to check the cases and WOW, two of them looked different (the two I'd already put powder in previously).  Those two had 11 grains of Bulleye in them vs. 5.4 grains.  That would have been a little bit past exciting if I hadn't caught it through the flashlight check.  I got the powder amount straight put the bullet on the cases and seated them.

You need a routine (but sooner or later something will break that routine) and you need inspections of the raw materials (brass/primers/powder/bullets) at each step of the reloading process to insure you don't "build" rounds that are unsafe to shoot.

Be careful, take your time and do it right.  At pressures of 50,000 psi or more you can't afford to make mistakes.

[EEL]

Good info, Old Dog.  That's why I'm a bit "gun shy" of letting those "do all" progressive loaders run free.  Deprime, prime, bell, drop powder, seat, and crimp with each pull of the handle.

I like to inspect while I deprime, wash 'em, look 'em over while I spread them out to dry.  Look at 'em again while I hand prime, THEN dump 'em in the hopper.  visually look at each load as it rotates, ck powder weight in every 10th  ,   Ck overall length every 50.

Like you say,,,it would be more than exciting....not in a good way 

EEL

[siglite]

I greatly fear the double-charge and the squib.  I triple check charges before seating, even on my progressive for plinkin' ammo.

[ErikAnderson]

Good reminder O.D!  I've been working on my single stage Rockcrusher for going on a couple years now hoping to move on up to a progressive.  Maybe faster isn't better! 

[Old Dog]

Some folks my ask why I didn't catch the splits/cracks with one inspection.  Well, when you start reloading for handguns you'll realize that a case mouth can crack when you "bell" the mouth (expands the case mouth to make the bullet start down in there without catching the mouth or shaving lead off the bullet base), it can crack when you crimp the case mouth (I use as little crimp as possible on the .45 acp but it still forces the metal to change shape/size which can lead to a crack/split).

I find that little flashlight invaluable for looking down in the cases to unsure powder is in the case.  With rifle cases and the powder amount used in them it would be pretty tough to double charge one but with pistol cases and some of the powders used there it can happen much more easily.

Be methodical and observant and safe.

[ErikAnderson]

I find that little flashlight invaluable for looking down in the cases to unsure powder is in the case.  With rifle cases and the powder amount used in them it would be pretty tough to double charge one but with pistol cases and some of the powders used there it can happen much more easily.

Be methodical and observant and safe.

All good points!

In addition (or in place of, depending on your eyesight!), the inexpensive 4' fluorescent light sets hung about 4' off the table work great for lighting. I actually have two sets (four 40w bulbs total) over my reloading bench.

[Thor's Hammer]

Hey! This sounds just like me!

I reload in the same manner and only work with one tray at a time. I also take a break before powder charging. I step outside, get some fresh air, have a smoke and drink some water. Stretching helps too. I don't know about you guys, but my hind-end gets sore, no matter how much padding on the stool.

I have always been a firm believer of quality over quantity. Progressives seem like a disaster waiting to happen, IMHO. I just prefer single-stage, eventhough progressives do have lots of safety features available to prevent no charge/double charge conditions and the like. I already have all my single stage equipment and can't justify reinvesting in new equipment, plus I find it very theraputic to reload in the manner that I do it.

Stay safe and see you on the trail,
TH
Jason

[siglite]

Progressives are far from a disaster waiting to happen.  I've loaded and fired thousands and thousands of rounds on a progressive.  Just like a single stage, you develop a process for safety.  On my dillon 650, there are two options.  One is that you can purchase a powder-check station for the press.  If your charge is high or low, it will alarm quite noisily. 

I opted to go a more manual route.  I have a light positioned such that I can see into the case.  Before seating every case, I make sure that I have a good eyeball on the powder level in the case.  If it looks high or low in the case, it gets yanked off the press and double-checked on the scale. 

I've found that I have a lot of false positives that way.  Sometimes, powder just falls into the case ... "fluffy" for lack of a better term.  It looks like there's more in there than should be.  Then you dump it into the scale pan and find out your charge is perfect.  Then you dump it back into the case, and it's not "fluffy" anymore, and the charge looks normal.

Me?  I'm just fine with a few of these false-positives per thousand rounds loaded.  Rather be safe than sorry.  Thousands and thousands of .45ACP and 5.56 have been safely assembled on my progressive.  Not that this is cause for complacency.  Just like a single-stage, complacency will get you hurt.  Check, and double check.  And just in case you got distracted (the wife called, the cat farted, meteor strike) go ahead and check again.  But I'd say on a round-count to screwup ratio, progressives aren't any more dangerous than single stages, assuming a diligent operator.

When I'm doing precision reloading for my bolt-guns on the single stage, I actually take a flashlight and peer down every case.  Again, diligence.  It's the same diligence on a single stage as it is on a progressive, just applied differently.

[starfox]

Progressives are far from a disaster waiting to happen.  I've loaded and fired thousands and thousands of rounds on a progressive.  Just like a single stage, you develop a process for safety.  On my dillon 650, there are two options.  One is that you can purchase a powder-check station for the press.  If your charge is high or low, it will alarm quite noisily. 

This is mainly why myself, as a newbie reloader (been doing it since this time last year) prefer single stage and manual tools.  It forces you to learn the process and understand each and every step so you can develop good habits.  Eventually once the wife starts competitions and is practicing we will likely move to a progressive press. But I would prefer one, as you indicate above, allows you to include quality control and safety checks in the process.

[siglite]

Progressives are far from a disaster waiting to happen.  I've loaded and fired thousands and thousands of rounds on a progressive.  Just like a single stage, you develop a process for safety.  On my dillon 650, there are two options.  One is that you can purchase a powder-check station for the press.  If your charge is high or low, it will alarm quite noisily. 

This is mainly why myself, as a newbie reloader (been doing it since this time last year) prefer single stage and manual tools.  It forces you to learn the process and understand each and every step so you can develop good habits.  Eventually once the wife starts competitions and is practicing we will likely move to a progressive press. But I would prefer one, as you indicate above, allows you to include quality control and safety checks in the process.

I've had many friends, some of them with significant disposable income to drop into reloading, say "I'm gonna get a Dillon XXX and pump out 30k rounds per year, will you help?"

"No."

"WHY NOT!?"

"You get a single stage, and I will help you with every step in the process.  In six months or a year, if you want to go to a progressive, I'll help you with that too."

The route you're going is the route I advocate to everyone.  Walk before you run.

[Aromatic]

I am still fairly new to reloading but for service rifles, I have decided most of the time is spent on case prep.  A progressive will not speed up; trimming, chamfering, de-burring, primer pocket reaming, or paper clip checking.

Once the case is ready to go, a good priming tool and powder measure make very quick work of the assembly. 

I just need to get to the point where I trust my measure enough not to weigh/trickle every charge.

[siglite]

I am still fairly new to reloading but for service rifles, I have decided most of the time is spent on case prep.  A progressive will not speed up; trimming, chamfering, de-burring, primer pocket reaming, or paper clip checking.

Once the case is ready to go, a good priming tool and powder measure make very quick work of the assembly. 

I just need to get to the point where I trust my measure enough not to weigh/trickle every charge.

Progressives do not speed up brass prep.  But when you're dealing with lots measured in thousands, there is an incredible amount of time saved in  having priming, charging, (belling on handguns), seating, and crimping all in one pull of the lever.  If my operation is uninterrupted, I can easily do several hundred in an hour.

[starfox]

I am still fairly new to reloading but for service rifles, I have decided most of the time is spent on case prep.  A progressive will not speed up; trimming, chamfering, de-burring, primer pocket reaming, or paper clip checking.

Once the case is ready to go, a good priming tool and powder measure make very quick work of the assembly. 

I just need to get to the point where I trust my measure enough not to weigh/trickle every charge.

The RCBS Trim Mate Case Prep Center is the only thing I've seen that can somewhat speed up case prep, but I wonder about the cost vs time saved.  Plus with the Lyman hand tools, I can get pretty speedy on my own once I get a rhythm down.

[DesertDog]

I am still fairly new to reloading but for service rifles, I have decided most of the time is spent on case prep.  A progressive will not speed up; trimming, chamfering, de-burring, primer pocket reaming, or paper clip checking.

Once the case is ready to go, a good priming tool and powder measure make very quick work of the assembly. 

I just need to get to the point where I trust my measure enough not to weigh/trickle every charge.

Proper case prep will always take time, but a progressive can help.  After reloading for 4 years, I bought a Dillon 650 a couple of months ago.  After I tumble the brass I can size 4-500 rds/hr and that's having to stop every 50 rds to load the tray and spray them with One Shot.  After the case prep is done I simply remove the sizing die and go.

[echodog]

Hey, I started with a Dillon RL550 ..no regrets after 6 years reloading and shooting thousands of rounds on this press, its the same steps , just all at once . I have a Lyman turret press I do big cartriges on(30-30,8mm, 308,30-06,)but 5.56, 7.62x39 ,.30 carbine and all pistol rounds its on the Dillon.You will develop a feel when somethings not right , when in doubt throw the cartrige in a bin , pull the bullet and start over.I too have a light over the powder station and look in each case before seating the bullet.  Dont be afraid of progressive loaders ,mistakes are made on single stage presses just as easy .

[jollynator]

To answer a simple questionwith a simpe answer:  When I have 60,000psi 3 inches from my eyes, the last thing I want is to realize that I didn't verify the amount of powder I loaded in that batch of loads.

jon

[Old Dog]

To answer a simple questionwith a simpe answer:  When I have 60,000psi 3 inches from my eyes, the last thing I want is to realize that I didn't verify the amount of powder I loaded in that batch of loads.

jon

You got it!!

[VaWolf]

I prefer handcrafting each round on a single stage press. When I put that much time and effort into a round I tend to try a little harder to get it in the bullseye EVERY shot. I still might consider a progressive for straight wall cases if I could absolutely verify the powder charge. Until then I will handcraft every round and love every minute of it. Besides, it is a whole lot cheaper than handcrafting small block Fords. I miss my old 'stangs. wolfman

[nemohunter]

Because NOBODY loves me like me. not even my wife. having inadvertantly double charged a few cases in my life makes me VERY careful.

[echodog]

ya'll are confusing handloading with reloading,two different goals. Hand loading is crafting each round one by one weighing each charge and separating headstamps,cleaning primer pockets etc.....  for max accuracy .Reloading is getting max amount of cases back on line safely. These rounds are as accurate from my Dillon as I could ask for.( 4 MOA at 600yds with a 16 inch M4 ). Just a side note If you were to double charge a 5.56 case on the Dillon it would overflow the case and it would look like it was in the middle of an ant pile of powder ,,kind of hard not to notice . Everyone stay safe no matter how you load ,cant afford to loose anyone.

[sparks1]

Single stage for me. As a previous poster said ...I handload. Case prep is indeed time consuming, but worth the effort. I would add weighing and sorting of cases to the litany of case prep. I will use my Harrels to drop charges for general shooting, but I hand weigh each charge for LR shooting. The Harrels probably will throw a charge as accurate as I need it, but weighing makes me more comfortable with the handload.
All the separate steps I do for case prep has me inspecting for any possible failures many time over. There are times I have caught a split neck or other irregularity in the case in a later step of the preparation.
Again...way too much pressure right by my face.

[cmidkiff]

<snip>Those two had 11 grains of Bulleye in them vs. 5.4 grains.</snip>

I try to choose powders that fill more than 50% of case volume.  Makes a double charge all but impossible.

I'm firmly with those who prefer a single stage tool.  I guess I'm the belt-and-suspenders type.  Saving time in what is, to me anyway, a hobby... something I enjoy doing, isn't really a priority.

Good of you to post your experience Old Dog, might just save someone from making a similar mistake some day.

[desertrat144]

I started out with a friend (mentor) that had been reloading for years, and a Dillon 550, multi tool heads, die, tumbler, &c.  I did all the preps separately- tumble, trim (a little off the top  ) and so on.  The only difficulties encountered were of my own making- the occasional squib initially.  When this would happen, I'd back engineer the 'WHY' which usually was a result of my technique/cadence being momentarily broken.  I've reloaded thousands of pistol and rifle rounds without incident.  The bottom line,as with anything- FOCUS! AND STAY FOCUSED! 

For anyone interested I'll be re-listing the Dillon, dies, &c. for sale.  The whole thing is bolt it down, add powder, primers and GO!  The listing will post shortly.  I'm getting out of reloading due to health (can't play much) and a move.

Tom

[jacques]

Sorry to hear that Desertrat Good luck on your sale!

I weigh  cartridges (5 at a time) at the end, just to be sure. The variation in brass and bullet weight will make a difference but nothing near what you would see with no powder or a double charge. It does not take long to do this with an electronic scale.

Be careful guys, like you all seem to be doing. 

[desertrat144]

A small mirror properly positioned so you can use perpherial vision to 'see' inside the cartridge for powder, before setting the bullet on top works well.

Tom

[Bill of Rights]

OK... I'm a complete noob with reloading. I recently bought a used Hornady LnL AP press; I have deprimed 375 9mm cases, but as I do not yet have a tumbler, calipers, or a scale, let alone bullets, I've not reloaded a single round yet. With the knowledge of that dearth of information and experience, I will ask this: Why is a progressive seen as a bad thing? If I check a case when I put it on the press, that case will be primed, expanded, filled, and available for another check before I seat a bullet, then again after it's recrimped. Once I have a scale (or two, at least one being a balance), I can check weights, and the possibility of distraction causing a double-charge seems to be nil with one of these: Once I pull the lever, the powder fills the case. If I haven't pulled, it has not done so. This seems simple (at least in re that point) to me. 1 or 0, either it's done or it's not. BTW, yes, my press has a powder check die in place.

I would appreciate any and all information or suggestions I can get. As it stands now, I will only be loading pistol, not rifle cases, though that may change in the future.

Thanks, all.

Blessings,
Bill

[eaglescouter]

Start out by using your progressive as a single stage press. 

Load 25 rounds and test them.
Repeat.
Repeat.
If you find the process to be interesting and you can devote your full attention while at the press you may be a candidate for a progressive press.

I started with a single stage press.  It was a great way to learn the basics and for my errors to be limited to only a few rounds.  I now use my Dillon 550 for cranking out pistol rounds.  For rifle I'm still more comfortable with weighing each load.....

[Old Dog]

I know nothing about progressive presses.  I'm still using (very) old single stage presses and doing fine.

Most pistol die sets have 3 dies.
#1 resizes the brass and punches out the old primer. (I would run the brass through a case cleaner first to minimize the dirt/dust, ect that could damage the dies over time).
#2 "bells" the case mouth slightly.  You just need enough to open the case mouth so the new bullet can be pushed down into the case without catching the side of the case mouth and tearing/wrinkling the case mouth.  To much "belling" of the case mouth will result in premature case failure.
#3 seats the bullet and crimps the brass.

In between the new primer has to be seated and the powder put into the cases.

I use the scale to set up the powder measure.  Once I get the powder measure adjusted to give me the right amount of powder I put the powder in 50 cases at a time and then visually look for anthing odd (less powder, more powder, no powder).  Anything odd gets the powder dumped into the scale pan and reweighed.  Even then I reweigh the powder in every 10th case.

Even measuring the overall length of the reloaded round may result in issues due to difference in bullet design.  You need to make sure the bullet fits in and feeds from the magazine and you need to make sure fits into the chamber without the bullet contacting the lands when chambered.  Seating a bullet deeper than necessary can increase pressures, too, so you don't want to do that either.

I've not really gotten into 9mm reloading yet but I've read it can be "trickier" than .45 acp.  We'll see.

[PHenry]

I always do what I call the "shooka-shooka" test. I eyeball each primer and then shake the case next to my ear, listening for that shooka shooka sound. No sound means too much powder, or none - either way, the round would come apart for inspection. Of course, in a compression load - not a valid test, but I only do them for competition and they git weighed individually.

[Shooter30-06]

There is nothing wrong with progressive presses but unless you are a cowboy or competitive shooter going through hundreds of rounds at a time I  believe a single stage press is more than adequate.  Like a previous poster, I like to check the seat on each primer.  An improper seat can result in a hangfire or a revolver cylinder being hung up.  The other thing I like to do is charge all of the cases with powder and then visually check them under a bright light to confirm uniform powder levels.  A double charge is the usual reason for blown up firearms and hands.  In the end I load every round with the idea in mind that it might be the only thing standing between me and some guy who thinks the Deliverance is a training film.  Reloading is fun but I take it seriously.