Rifleman Boot Camp, RWVA Home Range, Ramseur (2-10!) NC

[West]

Heading to Ramseur, (2-10!) I thought about the difficult decisions I had to make in the last month, and the decisions I was going to have to make in the coming months.  A new job, an Iraq deployment, and my father having a stroke all within a few weeks.  I was on the edge of not attending the RBC, but after having been there, I am truly glad I did.

I told my family that trying to describe the experience I had at this RBC was like trying to describe the Grand Canyon to a blind man - it's impossible.  And so, I am going to be bringing my entire family to Appleseed, in one way or another.

Fred double checked my notes, and made me promise that they would be copied here verbatim - the only additions you will find are [words in brackets] to make this more understandable.  

Note:  What is written below are not my personal thoughts.  This is from the instructor/student meeting 12 of us had with Fred, I just took the minutes.

RAMSEUR RBC 2-10 AAR:

Good:

-  Confirming KD [known distance] and correlation between 25y and KD [three people mentioned this]
-  Never felt that people [instructors] were on an ego trip - instructors were there for the good of the student [and] not themselves
-  Moved at the right pace and [students] knew what was coming
-  Reaffirms that never met anyone at an Appleseed that didn't like [two people mentioned this]
-  No talk about which rifle is better than another
-  [shows that] rifleman skills may some need refreshing but they stick with you
-  instructor to student ratio was good [5:13]
-  After hours activities superb -> Rifle familiarity, classroom lessons, etc.
-  People that you meet [at Appleseed] highly passionate
-  Learned a lot as instructors from other instructors
-  Relaxed atmosphere for unsecured equipment, willingness to do/help w/ getting equipment/loaning equipment esp while on firing line
-  instructor ability to take you into the past and make you realize the sacrifice and put you into their shoes
-  understood why Appleseed is done at 25y, logistics of KD range
-  13 of the 16 people at the RBC shot Rifleman (including instructors, most multiple times) over the course of the week

Bad:

-  More 7th step - give ideas to IITs to give at their shoots
-  Visible written instructions/visual aids for 6 steps/safety: visual aids are weakest part of the program [two people mentioned this]
-  More distance shooting
-  Popups to stay out for RBC if a local range shoot beforehand
-  "Campfire stories" for history, rather than history lectures
-  No Crack and Thump or Tracer was done
-  Need [haven't yet] to find a way to stay at Appleseed forever
-  Most disappointing KD shooting - too many sighters
-  Rifleman or close should only shoot KD
-  More attention to NPOA - big difference at KD
-  Phyiscal facilities were lacking - showers, toilets, heat inside clubhouse
-  Outhouses services at minimum Friday before an Appleseed
-  Absolutely need to stress water breaks because of dehydration even in winter, water cooler, etc "water discipline"
-  Emergency plan needs to be in place, first aid kit
-  not enough time on KD range, split up instructors for 25y and KD (complaint made by someone already a rifleman)
-  "It's only a week"
-  Need more KD targets, do rapid fire at multiple ranges (combination of ranges in 2-3 minute stages)
-  RFAQT full distance at next RBC

If you have any questions about what is here, post it and I will add it to this post at the top.

I want to send out a very special thanks to everyone that was there!

Crash, JMDavis, Deacon, D-Fly, KDan, DrJohn, George, Greg, Sie, Martin, Kris, Froggy, Mike, Lawrence, Kircher, Matt, Wildman, IronPony, Spanner, Ben, and of course, Fred.

May the big Rifleman in the sky watch after you all.

TWO TEN!

West

Edit:  Everything in blue was added after initial post.

[Fred]

   There are plans underway to address many of these issues; others are problematic - in other words there are 'good' and 'bad' points to doing them, so it's easy to do them one time, not do them the next (because of the 'bad') and then get criticized for not doing them (because when you don't do them 'because of the bad', you lose the 'good'. ).

    The review posted above above should be on the internal AAR, but out here, in public, it shows I think the reason this program is so successful - because we pay attention to detail in afteractions for the sole purpose of "making it better" the next time.

    Hence, this program is always improving, via feedback from the participants.

[George63]

-----------------------------

[hawkeye]

Way to go George , I wondered what you shot on the full distance AQT. That group at 500 looked good. A little less gusting wind and it would have been tighter. I'm pushing for the shower house to be built in the near future.

[kool aid]

Well done!

YOu ain't seen nothing yet......

[dragonfly]

 

D-fly

[Bones]

Nice write up, West.  It was a great week for sure!  In addition to the excellent instruction (thanks guys!) I also learned a lot from those that I shot next to over the course of the week.  From West... I learned the "mag out" step on the KD range   Good catch man!

I wasn't able to stick around for the Appleseed (my brother left Sunday to go overseas with the AF and I was eager to get back and see him off), but I'm glad to hear that everything went well.

D-Fly... I'm eager to see those new rifleman pictures.  I keep telling folks here that I made it and they're asking for evidence. 

[jmdavis]

OK, who is "bones." Come on, give us a clue.

Good writeup West.

I think that something that we might want to add is that at least 13 of the 16 people at the RBC shot Rifleman (most multiple times) over the course of the week. More may have shot Rifleman scores at the Appleseed.

I was impressed by the dedication of all of the students. It was cold and wet much of the time, but you all persisted and that persistence led to success.

Good Job.

[jmdavis]

A little more information:

There was (as always at an Appleseed), an Emergency plan. I am certain that Crash can provide you with the details of the RBC "Emergency Plan".

In addition we had multiple first aid kits (including one in my range bag at the equipment line, one in my tent, and a large one in my car).

[West]

A little more information:

There was (as always at an Appleseed), an Emergency plan. I am certain that Crash can provide you with the details of the RBC "Emergency Plan".

In addition we had multiple first aid kits (including one in my range bag at the equipment line, one in my tent, and a large one in my car).

Okay, so then as I understand it, you don't like me, and that's why you let me bleed all over the firing line on the first day!!     Just kidding.

"I" knew there was an emergency plan but a few people thought it was a bit vague, but I think that came from a student, and I have faith that the instructors had it covered.   You've all only been doing it for... years.

Bones is BEN I believe.

2-10!

West

[jmdavis]

Hey West, I was really impressed by your high speed, low drag; get it done solution to your cut finger (paper towel and OD duct tape). But if I had known that you needed neosporin/bandaid I would have been there for you.  I never knew you were cut until I saw the tape.

After getting back to work, I almost wish that it was a two week boot camp!

[The Machine]

Well I'm glad to see that you and Spanner made the trip and had a good time...wish I could've been there as originally planned. I'm also glad that you resorted to a "WV Band Aid" (paper towel and duct tape) and didn't bleed-out on the firing line. 

I appreciate your candid comments about this RBC. I found this interesting...

Need [haven't yet] to find a way to stay at Appleseed forever

because either we can't pry someone off the couch to even attend an Appleseed, or on the other end of the spectrum, we have the Appleseed "junkie". I guess we know which camp you're in! 

[Bones]

LOL

Yes Bones=Ben.... old nickname from when I was a kid.  Being the tall skinny kid all my life it just stuck.

jmdavis, I especially appreciate your dedication since I know you were feeling under the weather during the week and the actual weather had to only make it that much more difficult.  The instructors were absolutely outstanding.

[West]

Need [haven't yet] to find a way to stay at Appleseed forever

Actually, the person that said that was Dragonfly.

All I did was to type up the notes from the meeting we (the instructors and students, there were about 12 of us) had with Fred.  I can't take credit for any of that stuff.

But yeah, I'm in that camp.  It's pretty easy to be involved in something that you are passionate about!

West

[dragonfly]

New Rifleman

Kris
Froggy
Lawrence
Bones

[dragonfly]

For those of you wishing for better weather. Be carefull what you wish for Jan.10 2010 Hubertus WI -1 and snow. Oh what a glorious day to be an AMERICAN.

D-fly

[Deacon]

Wow, what a week.

A special thanks to our Shootboss Crash for a great week.  Thanks to KDan and JmDavis for showing me the ropes on my first RBC.  I shouldn't be amazed anymore of the quality people that come from all over to attend an Appleseed event.

Shooters from Maryland, Delaware, Nevada, Georgia, Illinois etc.  Shooters who have made a huge commitment to attend, including some active duty Airmen who took leave to be there.  Wow!


We heard some REALLY good history from some very articulate IIT's.  We even had a few shooters who has some real problems.....can you say, "Is that a cleaning patch stuck in your barrel or are you just happy to see me?"

We even shared a meal with Fred at the ole' G.C. in Asheboro.  Thank you Fred for dinner and the meeting afterwards. 

Project Appleseed got a whole bunch of new and very motivated orange hats last week.  Orange hats that will undoubtly turned into Redhats. 
Those Redhats may be attending and instructing at the RBC next February.....See how this works orange hats?

Ramseur...............................TWO TEN!

Thanks again,
Deacon

[alanjnc]

Had a great time last weekend at Ramsureres (sp?). Rifleman again with the backup rifle; I think that is the best skill learned; that under pressure you just go "by the numbers". Strange how (like golf?) you can go from "aw crap, I suck" to "gee, this stuff really works.
Thanks to Hawkeye, 7.62, and the rest. See you in March!!
ps, I also have some pics and will get them posted this week. There was a guy from Meade and a guy (and his son) from FL I didn't get contact info from, great to meet you!
ajf

[Dinky Dao]

Sounds like you all had a great time. I know Crash runs a good ship!

(sigh)...This is the first year I missed attending a "February" Ramseur RBC. The cold...the snow...such memories. LOL.

West, you say your only complaint may have been about the weather, but try camping in 20 degrees weather...showers frozen ALL WEEK, the porta potties freezing over, causing "the mound" to form....having icicles form on your rifle only to realize it's from the tears streaming down from your eyes due to the cold...shaking so hard at the campfire you can barely eat wildman's famous biscuits and soup he just whipped up, and when, during the week it does get above freezing, it RAINS all day just to freeze over again just as the sun starts to set, and...you had sunshine??? WhatDA???!

Dragonfly, Kdan, Spanner, and jmdavis...tell me "West" isn't that soft! Say it isn't so! Is it because he's not a Yankee??? 

Sounds to me like you all had a cushy week out at the home range....

LOL!

Congratulations to all the Riflemen! (and wasn't there a "Riflewoman" too??")

And West...nice save there with the OD duct tape...


See you all on the trail!
Dinky

[crashkid2k]

I need to make sure I got all of the new IITs who worked the AS, but I was busy shooting my AQT on the KD range Saturday.

George63 & Lawrence have already sent PMs.  Everyone else, I need a PM with your forum name (real name, too, if it's not obvious) so I can get you started as IIT3s.  Once I get everyone, I'll send them in together so Nickle only has to deal with it once.

Sorry I let this go so long; I got home to some family stuff I didn't expect and have had a lot on my mind.

[West]

There's no way I could let this one go.  I haven't met you yet Dinky, but I hope I get to soon!  

Dragonfly, Kdan, Spanner, and jmdavis...tell me "West" isn't that soft! Say it isn't so! Is it because he's not a Yankee???

Born in Minneapolis, raised in northern WI... and Delaware fought for the Union, TYVM!  

I think the real point was that if the weather was the worst complaint, and it was pretty fair for being there nine days, then we were way ahead of the game!  

(I added lots of emphasis for the kids -- you know who you are!)

Although I am a big softy, I believe I was reverently referred to as 'The Tool' for most of my time at the RBC.  That could be taken to have two meanings, but is usually misconstrued to the lesser version; one I laugh at, often pointing at myself and saying "HA! In MY FACE!"

TBQH, I wasn't totally ready for the colder weather - thought I brought EVERYTHING in doubles - it was the mindset of it being the south, not it being February.

I was quite happy with our AQT grind though.  19 AQTs in two days!  Awesome.  And I shot my high scores there, most notably my highest iron sights score(though not as good as I would like it to be!)  BTW - Thanks George63 for letting me use your race gun - that thing is great.

See you on the Trail!

West  

PS:  Crash - Hope everything is okay, and your knee is doing better.  Looking forward to working with you again in the future.  Blessings.

[crashkid2k]

OK, it looks like we have George63 and Lawrence at their full IIT3 status.  Anyone else?  Greg, Kris...?  Anyone know their forum names?

Again, thanks for getting the AAR going, guys.  I'm pretty good about posting an AAR quickly, but it wasn't in the cards this time.

Thanks, too, for the happy thoughts regarding my poor knee.  It's better for now!

[Sie]

I want to send out a very special thanks to everyone that was there!

Crash, JMDavis, Deacon, D-Fly, KDan, DrJohn, George, Greg, Sie, Martin, Kris, Froggy, Mike, Lawrence, Kircher, Matt, Wildman, IronPony, Spanner, Ben, and of course, Fred.

May the big Rifleman in the sky watch after you all.

There are a handful of guys who attended the RBC that I do not know if they have joined the forum or, if so, what their forum name is.  A couple guys have posted to this thread, like George and Ben, so we now know their forum names.  I can't match forum names for Greg, Martin, Kris (ScentLok?), Froggy, Lawrence, Kircher, and Matt (McLovin?).  A couple of you mentioned attending the Annapolis, MD shoot, which I am thinking of attending.  In any event, it would be nice to know who I shared this experience with if they have chosen to continue with the Appleseed program.  Check into this thread, if you don't mind.