NY Laws regarding Youth and Firearms

[zercool]

    Changing the law is maybe beyond our grasp (but not by 2016!), but we could do something with this:

265.20 Exemptions
...
7. Possession, at an indoor or outdoor shooting
range for the purpose of loading and firing,
of a rifle or shotgun, the propelling force of which
is gunpowder by a person under sixteen years of
age but not under twelve, under the immediate
supervision, guidance and instruction of (a) a
duly commissioned officer of the United States
army, navy, air force, marine corps or coast
guard, or of the national guard of the state of
New York; or (b) a duly qualified adult citizen of
the United States who has been granted a certificate
as an instructor in small arms practice issued
by the United States army, navy, air force
or marine corps, or by the adjutant general of
this state..

    How much would a phone call to the AG's office cost?

    I bet they won't know what to do, so it will take someone with some personality (like a salesman) to talk them into looking into our instructor's training, compare it to that of the NRA, and with a nudge of commonsense supplied by our guy, be convinced that anyone who completes RWVA training to become an instructor should be recognized by the AG's office and issued an appropriate certificate.

    If we don't ask, we know what the answer will be...

For NY's purposes, "under the immediate supervision" means "within arm's reach". It's been discussed at length during hunter safety classes. Youth can gun-hunt "under immediate supervision" as well. Unless we have sufficient instructors for a 1:1 ratio with the youth, it's a no-go.

[dwarven1]

Youths 12-16 can shoot firearms that use gunpowder at an indoor or outdoor range must be under the immediate supervision, guidence, and instruction of:
- A duly commisioned officer of the US Army/Navy/Marines/Coast Guard, or NY National Guard
- a US Citizin with small arms instruction certification provided by the Army/Navy/Marines, or NRA
- An adult with a hunter safety certificate

Looks like a NRA RSO at the shoots is good enough. NRA RSO certs are not hard to get. But that does limit it to 12yo and above.

I will disagree with this statement. I don't think that an NRA RSO cert is good enough, because it is NOT an "instruction certification". It's purely a safety position, and we don't instruct AT ALL.

Looks to me like any visiting Red Hats should be NRA instructors.

[gunville]

I'd like to see a resolution / policy soon as I'm supposed to speak to a scout troop - mostly 12-14 - about getting to Elbridge in April.

[gunville]

zercool,

That's not how I understood it (immediate supervision meaning arms length that is) but as I said in post 1, I'm not a lawyer.

Consider also the D.E.C. law is not the same as the firearms law. Hunting has additional risks the D.E.C. attempts to control - like cross fire by an inexperience youth whose heart is pumping because his/her first deer is in the sights. (tough to get that experience from a paper target.)

Even then, I was told by a DEC officer you had to keep visual on a youth and simply not let them get too far away, nothing about arms length.  Of course those that enforce the law don't necessarily know the law.

Arms length sounds like another absurdity.

[Another D.O.M.]

Does anyone have their latest issue of the NYSRPA Bullet handy?  There used to be a lawyer down near NYC who advertised in the classifieds in the back that he provides legal services for firearms-related issues.  Maybe we need to give this fellow a call...

[sgtrock]

      Having a problem involving a firearm?
 Be it with a Town, County, State of NY police, or ATF[federal]
Call an attorney with 40 yrs of experience in pistol licensing, criminal offenses & any matters dealing with firearms

Charles A. Giulini., ESQ
 of Giulini & Giulini
475 Fifth Ave.
NY, N.Y.  10017
212-725-5411
845-794-2900

Says He's been on the Legal Referral List of the NRA for over 25 yrs.
Consultations given in New York City office, and Sullivan County----------$ 100 Consultation Fee

This is the entire add,,
sgtrock

[sgtrock]

Here's another one as well on same publication
631-789-4000                             fax 631-789-4005
               H. Lee Blumberg, ESQ.
       member: NRE, SASI, NYSRPA
  Peconic River Sportsman's Club [ club attorney]
        NRA Referral Attorney
  Blumberg, Cherkoss, Fitzgibbons & Blumberg, LLP
     Attorney at Law
330 Broadway, Suite 1,  Amityville, NY 11701-2710

end of add
sgtrock