First RWVA Rifleman's Boot Camp, Ramseur, NC Aug. 2006 Page 2

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ken grant
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     Re: FLASH REPORT! Rifleman Boot Camp!
<< Reply #25 on: September 4, 2006, 01:44:03 PM >> Quote 

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I arrived home tired,sore and stiff after over a week with some of the greatest guys on this planet. I only type with one finger so I will not go into names but it includes the RWVA Staff and the "Boot Campers".
I didn't get all I intended to at the "Boot Camp" ,but that was my fault and not due to any lack of the staff or instructions. My body let me down,my brain let me down and my truck let me down. This all caused me to miss several days of shooting and training.
I want to extend a HEARTFELT THANKS to FRED for his help in getting my truck back into operation. He took time on two days and transported me to Dealers in order to get my truck working. His firmness in dealing with the Dealer got my truck fixed in short order.
He not only took time from his very busy days,but he also used gas into getting things worked out and when I wanted to pay at least for his costs,HE KICKED ME OUT OF HIS VAN.
So,I can only say THANKS AGAIN TO FRED and all of the other guys,both staff and Boot Campers. They offered to take us to resupply,to eat at night and brought water to use before the well was working.


     Thanks again to some of the greatest guys on earth
                                Ken

<< Last Edit: September 4, 2006, 02:40:41 PM by ken grant >>  Report to moderator    Logged 

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OH,how I wish to be young(at least 50) again


Mike Wallace
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     Re: FLASH REPORT! Rifleman Boot Camp!
<< Reply #26 on: September 4, 2006, 04:59:54 PM >> Quote 

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Ken,
   Couldn't agree more with you assessment of RIFLEMAN Boot Camp as to shooters and Instructors. You made RIFLEMAN and I am so Thankful for your hard work in doing that; as Fred might say, Perserverance in the face of otherwise insurmountable hardship and difficulty. My point is, you hung in there and kept squeezing off good shots, pouring out mil-spec ammo until you not only got it once, but at least twice, perhaps three times in the course of this past week and 3 days. We did have the best shooting brothers and sister-Judy- anywhere. No where on earth, literally, could we have done such and been as blessed to breathe the free air together. I said it seveal times and it still is true: we might not be in heaven, but we can see it from here in the RWVA Rifle Range and camp grounds. I was blessed to have you allow me to travel with you and share duties in the camp site. I know, I'm the cook, and you're the blasting Rifleman, but the score of one point short, while not what I'd hoped, planned, shot and worked for this past week or so, gave me great contentment. I'd rather shoot one point short at 100, 200, 300 and 400 yards than a higher score on paper at 25 meters: it's what I came here to do and though didn't accomplish that objective, did score better than ever before. This confirms Fred's coaching and counsel: keep shooting each shot by the numbers, postion tight with NPOA right and the numbers will take care of themselves. I'll get it next time and in the mean time, THANKS RWVA Instructors who took time to listen to those who needed individual instruction and time to process the, from time to time, many but carefully thought out directions and suggestions. I never have advanced as far as this Boot Camp, either in accurate Zero's for the cartridge and rifle or actually on target at those extende yardages. Man, what a great time it was. Work? Definitely. Sweat? Of course, it was hot and humid in the South in August and early Sept. Weather instability? Well, it is the time for tropical depressions and hurricanes in the South-So what? Being taught persistence in the face of many, many obstacles was work but worth it.
   Don't know when I can be back due to the uncertainties of aging parent and the care giver responsibilities, but if the Lord is willing, I'm gonna be back and score RIFLEMAN bacause I had faith in your Instruction and persnal experiences, in short, in you. It'll come together and it'll be worth the wait and every bit of the work.
THANK YOU FRED AND ALL THE RIFLEMAN BOOT CAMP INSTRUCTORS PLUS THIS GREATEST GROUP OF MAN AND WOMAN ANYWHERE.

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4LIBERTY
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     Re: FLASH REPORT! Rifleman Boot Camp!
<< Reply #27 on: September 4, 2006, 11:33:05 PM >> Quote 

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Wow where do I begin?

First let me say if you missed it you really missed it. What a great time. My wife and I had one thing after another going wrong prior to coming to the boot camp. But we sucked in and came anyway, and I?m sure glad we did.

Was it worth it, absolutely with out question?

I want to thank each and every one of those who attended. Many of you have been living in tents for last 8 days in heat, humidity, wind and rain. My hats off to you.

Many of you had bleeding elbows, sore joints and bruised arms from tight slings. While these things are minor compared to what many of the guys in 75 went through, in our modern world it says a lot. I mean after all the world we live in here in the good old USA tends to spoil many of us.

We arrived on Monday afternoon after our monthly shoot in Evansville IN. Right out of the box Fred challenged me to shoot some pop ups. Boy talk about being put on the spot. Pop ups with Fred watching yikes.   Heck I had never shot pop ups in my life talk about pressure. 

The rest of the week I was put on the line to help other shooters. It was a pleasure to watch many of the shooters improve, some dramatically. I have learned a great deal trying to show others how to shoot; actually it has helped my shooting improve.

I did get the chance to squeeze in a couple of AQTs and some more pop ups.

I to want to thank Fred, Believer, Cabinboy, TR, Atlas Shrug, Ray, Son of Martha, and others for all their hard work in making the Boot Camp a success and a whole lot of fun at the same time. It was an honor to be a small part of it.

It never ceases to amaze me at the quality of the people my wife and I have met at the appleseed shoots. Definitely a cut above; not your average clueless, brain dead, spineless metorsexual types.

My wife was the only woman at the shoot all week. I want to thank all the ?gentlemen? there. Not once did I hear a foul word spoken in her presence while at the range and in this day and age that is rare indeed. She did feel somewhat out of place at first but soon became comfortable with the surroundings. Any women wanting to attend an Appleseed please don?t hesitate about coming. Not only are you welcomed but you are also needed.

My wife was very pleased with what she learned at the camp and her shooting has improved a great deal. The one on one instruction she received from several different instructors was much appreciated. She never made the rifleman cut at the camp, but today she shot a 219 on our home range. Her third rifleman score and her highest to date. I hope she will register on the board and chime in with her own thoughts soon.

In closing I will say this if you have thought about attending an Appleseed and keep making excuses as to why you can?t make it. Let me tell you; you have no idea what you are missing. Listen. Make some sacrifices, do what it takes, but do yourself and your country a favor, learn to shoot a rifle. If you can?t find a way to make one of the shoots at least get the info and train yourself and a friend. I know it may come across as a little harsh but you have to understand there may not be a lot of time left. Many in our country would like nothing better than to make our passion a crime. If you don?t believe me then you obviously live on a different planet. 

Basic rifle marksmanship, teaching others the skill, staying engaged in the soft war, spreading the word and waking up the slumbering American. It is the least we can do, and quite frankly its not asking much compared to what others have endured.


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?The first maxim of a man who loves liberty, should be never to grant to rulers an atom of power that is not most clearly and indispensably necessary for the safety and well being of society?
Richard Henry Lee..


Son of Martha
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  Re: FLASH REPORT! Rifleman Boot Camp!
<< Reply #28 on: September 5, 2006, 07:12:42 PM >> Quote 

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Prelude to Departmental Ditties and Other Verses

Rudyard Kipling


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I HAVE eaten your bread and salt,
    I have drunk your water and wine,
The deaths ye died I have watched be-side,
    And the lives that ye led were mine.
Was there aught that I did not share
    In vigil or toil or ease,?
One joy or woe that I did not know,
    Dear hearts across the seas?

I have written the tale of our life
    For a sheltered people?s mirth,
In jesting guise?but ye are wise,
    And ye know what the jest is worth.

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Yup, that's about it.

A special "Atta boy" for Believer, he was faced with accomplishing TWO missions in one week, and did a great job at both.

I have a page in my Boot Camp diary marked "Things I have learned or had reinforced"...it includes the following:

> Don't jump to conclusions about people--they will suprise you.

> There is NOT ONE bad person or waste of skin here.  Imagine randomly picking 25 people off the street to spend a week cooped up with--that's a recipe for hell.  Here, EVERYONE is generous with assistance, time, and equipment.  Ask for help and you get it.  Cool.

>  Firing hand grip and trigger manipulation are even more important than I thought.  Doug switched from a thumb wrap grip to indexing on the rear of the reciever and his groups shrank by about 20%....from that tiny change...(Thanks for the idea, Atlas!)

> Everyone has a story.

>  The "book" only goes so far...it is what USUALLY works for the AVERAGE person under MOST conditions...I saw a situation where the path to Rifleman level shooting was to analyze what was happening and devise a method to mitigate the problem which directly contradicted the official way of doing things...that said, use the book method FIRST and then customize as needed.

>  FOLLOWTHROUGH MATTERS...it MAY not show up at 25 yards, but it WILL show up at full range.

And some off the top of my head observations....

Kudos to Miss Judy, with her serious "can-do" attitude and determination.

Instructing and coaching is actually more fun than shooting.  The liver-shuddering concussion of a line in rapid fire, dust and muzzle blast obscuring the targets, golden flashes from flying brass, bullet splashes galore, smooth mag changes, seeing a competent Rifleman counting clicks with his eyes downrange...it is poetry in motion, raw power under human control.  Addicting.

You may have your stuff wired tight and know it all forward and backward, but there is no substitute for the pressures and adrenaline of competition...THATS when you see how good you really are.  Opportunities to screw up are VALUABLE and should be pounced upon for use as learning tools.

In light of the above, I really appreciated the opportunity to fire at range while I was staggering from exhaustion, sore as all get out, and sweating like a pig...plenty of chances to screw it up, and every now and again I did....but I also got good hits under conditions that seemed impossible.

There is a real feeling of accomplishment in picking someone in the line and saying, "I am going to help this person be a better shooter"...and then being able to DO it.  One on one coaching is needed sometimes, as bad habits can be so deeply ingrained that they don't even realize that they are (fill in one or more of the 12 common firing line errors here...).  By having someone take the time to WATCH them through string after string of fire, make suggestions and help them to follow through on the suggestions, an individual can be brought along much faster than practice on their own.

I think I have read this somewhere...TARGET DETECTION IS THE MOST DIFFICULT TASK....do ya hear me now?  Maybe we should paint the popups O.D. green, and only expose them for 2-5 secs at a time...

Sunday afternoon I looked around, and EVERY ONE of the remaining Boot Campers were involved in range functions or individual coaching. Some had even lent out their rifles and given ammo to Appleseeders.  They get it.  Volunteer Americans teaching other Americans the art and discipline of proper rifle shooting.

Proper equipment maintenance is crucial--not only may you have failures to function, you may also have DAMAGE to your rifle if it is not maintained.

I have been truly blessed by participating in this, and the people I met go a long way toward restoring my store of goodwill toward my fellow man.  Thank you, RWVA for all of the activities ya'll organize, my life has been enriched due to your efforts and sacrifices.


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Ornell Fuggett
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     Re: FLASH REPORT! Rifleman Boot Camp!
<< Reply #29 on: September 5, 2006, 07:50:43 PM >> Quote 

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Well that was fun... Really, the best $200 I have ever spent. To meet so many quality people in one place, patriots every one! My deep gratitude to Fred and all the instructors for their hard work. When asked if I thought the Boot Camp was worth the trip, my response was.... ABSOLUTELY!!!!
I was finally able to break my previous AQT high score, which was simple, once I stopped wrapping my thumb around the stock.   The small mistakes really do matter.

Then to be able to instruct during the weekend Appleseed shot, well..... That was a blast! I enjoyed teaching others all that I had just learned. They really did progress on Sunday and it was inspiring to see the Fathers, Sons and Daughters carrying on the traditions of liberty.

To all my Brothers who were on the line, it was my honor to shoot with you.
To the Georgia boys, thanks for the coffee, it was a real life saver. 
4LIBERTY better start practicing or his MRS. will be scoring higher than he does
Finally remember, if you have an M1A with a match camber, KEEP THAT CHAMBER CLEAN! I am running out of extractors....   




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War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

What then is Liberty?

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Lady 4LIBERTY
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     Re: FLASH REPORT! Rifleman Boot Camp!
<< Reply #30 on: September 5, 2006, 10:33:20 PM >> Quote 

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Now a word from the only woman at the boot camp.

I want to personally thank Fred and all instructors for their help as a group and one on one. Even though Tom and I didn?t make it to a full day of boot camp until Tuesday and our last day was Friday, my shooting skills improved greatly. I will admit that on Tuesday morning I felt as if I was in one of those pictures on which one doesn?t belong, all these men and then me.  Once we started into prep time I felt better about it all. I don?t think I will feel out of place anymore. I wasn?t there to compete against anyone but myself.
   
Yes, the first two days that I shot were very hot and humid, but I couldn?t let that stop me. I was there to learn and improve my skills, I wanted to take in as much as I could in the time that I was there. Thursday and Friday were a lot better with the clouds and lower temps.

We would shoot, go down range, score, come back and do it again.  Any suggestions from instructors were taken and worked on for the next group. Everyone having a great time and encouraging each other was always heard. What a great group of people. To my left was a very encouraging man. When I was distracted by other things or discouraged, Mike always had something uplifting to say that helped. Thanks again Mike, I hope all is well.

After Believer, Son of Martha, Atlas Shrug, and ornell fuggett working with me trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, they determined that part of my problems were actually my rifle. Not that I doubted what they were saying, I thought I could overcome my rifles problems. Well, by the end of Friday, to many of my shots were still off, results?no rifleman score (sorry Fred)

While I was learning at the boot camp, I kept thinking how neat it will be to get home and help our daughter and other ladies we know with the things I was taught.

We left to come home on Saturday, went and bought a new rifle on Sunday, Monday sighted the rifle in, and one AQT later, rifleman score of 219. Ah, how sweet it is, even though I exceeded the time limit on stages two and three.  Now I have to continue to work on the six steps to firing the shots, and slow down and shoot quick.

I just want to end this by trying to encourage women as well as men to go to an Appleseed shoot. Bring your kids to shoot also, they ARE our future, we need to keep these skills alive. You will not regret it! You will meet good people at them, and friends to always remember. I look forward to seeing these gentlemen at future Appleseed shoots. I am asking ladies to please give this a try, I am one of the most reserved people God created, if I can do this you can to. 



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Believer
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     Re: FLASH REPORT! Rifleman Boot Camp!
<< Reply #31 on: September 6, 2006, 08:06:27 PM >> Quote 

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As has been stated before in this thread.. If you missed it, you missed it.  As the word spreads about the boot camp I believe there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth by those who missed it! 

Never fear however, there will be another boot camp.  Highly recommend that you do not miss the next one!

It was a great week!  The participants were outstanding!

I was honored to work with a great group of instructors!  Ray, Atlas, TR, 4Liberty, Cabinboy, and last but not least, Fred worked to make my job a lot easier.

Fred has posted that a different sort of people attend an Appleseed Shoot.  Good people, people willing to learn.  The people attending the Boot Camp were Appleseed kind of people.

I was tasked with running the boot camp and it was a challenge.  The participants had varying skills and one challenge was keeping everyone else challenged!

A different shooter was selected each half day to handle the instruction and line calling. All "drafted" for duty acquitted themselves well!

Another challenge was being told by one person that he had heard that others thought we were moving too fast.  Of course along came another person to let me know that he was hearing that we were moving too slow.  These comments were made within hours of each other!

The underlying issue of course was the divergent skill level of the different shooters.  The riflemen wanted to move onto other things, while others were still struggling to get their group size to 4 MOA.  It would have been an easy thing to either move faster or slower, however, I tried to remain focused on the group as a whole.

A couple of things that we did to work on this issue were to assign the stronger shooters as coaches for weaker shooters.  Son of Martha suggested the above.  I used this concept at the Wisconsin Appleseed Shoot and thought it worth another try.  A real issue with the coaching concept is the strength of the coaches.  In order for the idea to flourish, the coaches have to have strong shooter diagnostic skills.  Some gains were made, however, in general the coaches were not far enough along in the boot camp process to make a significant impact. 

Another thing we did to work on this issue was to make use of both ranges.  We split the group into two segments sending the stronger shooters to work on their zeros at 200, 300, 400, and 500 yards.

There was one thing that all the shooters enjoyed doing.  That was shooting the AQT.  Those who were working on their marksmanship skills enjoyed shooting it and watching their score increase.  Those already at the rifleman level enjoyed shooting it to increase their score even higher!

Something that I found to be beneficial was opening up a block of time where the range went hot and cold on a predetermined schedule.  This time was spent by the shooters working on aspects of their skill that needed improvement.  Some worked on various positions, others worked on the cadence of their shoots.  The shooter was allowed to post a target of his choice and work out the kinks.  The Practice AQT and QD-AQT were two of the favorites.

Some of the instructors-in-training focused on trying to move things along more quickly.  A couple of them told the shooters to go check their targets and be back on the line in either 90 or 120 seconds.  I could understand their desire to move along expeditiously, however, several negative things occurred.  The instructors and instructors-in-training stopped going down to the target line because 120 seconds is not enough time for them to review targets.  Why bother going down to review targets if you can only look at one or at most two?  The shooters were being shortchanged on instructor feedback.  A significant partner, the target, of the rifleman's dance was being ignored.  In general the shooters did not yet have enough experience to hear the target talking to them.  They did not yet understand what the target was saying. We got that squared away pretty quick!

I watched some of the guys step up and take other shooters under their wings.  I saw a lot of one-on-one time between several shooters and watched those being helped scores increase.

It was a challenge to keep everyone challenged!  It was also challenging to field the various suggestions and work out how and if to implement them.  Some of them were excellent and some failed to "see the big picture." 

I am becoming more cantankerous and pointed in my instruction.  I have come to realize that I am not doing anyone any favors if I let people get by with half-arsed answers.  (I can hear Fred saying Amen to this!)

Group size 8 MOA?  Say what you want, but not following the six steps is the reason (assuming good equipment).

Trying to walk your shots into the target?  Get with the program and adjust your sights properly.

Vertical stringing?  A couple of probable causes, including lack of breath control.  Work on the respiratory pause.

Not using a sling properly?  Tell them to get with the program.

I am not recommending that you be a jerk in your instruction, however, it is kinder in the long run to call it like you see it then let a shooter get away with a lame excuse.

I believe the boot camp was another significant step forward in the Appleseed program.  It was a success, period. 

In looking at the upcoming 2007 calendar, I see several other significant steps forward.  The program is growing to the point were Fred, Cabinboy and myself will not be able to attend a majority of the shoots.  These shoots will have to be run by others.  The boot camp looks to be a significant source of new instructors.  Those who attended the camp are the future of the program. 

If you are reading this and have not yet been to an Appleseed, get off you butt and attend one.  You will not be sorry that you did.  The people that you will meet and the skill set that you will learn will serve you the rest of your life!  More importantly, after you attend, turn around and teach others. 



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4LIBERTY
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     Re: FLASH REPORT! Rifleman Boot Camp!
<< Reply #32 on: September 6, 2006, 11:13:03 PM >> Quote 

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Believer said
Trying to walk your shots into the target?  Get with the program and adjust your sights properly.
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My wife and I were talking about this on the way home from the shoot. For some reason many have trouble understanding the concept. Even though IMHO it is one the most important parts of becoming a rifleman. I have found in my experiences with shooter so far that they seem to grasp it more if you do the math in front of them on paper. Then explain the reason why IMC is so important then explain it again. I have also been wondering if before shooters head down range for their first IMC lesson that they determine what there sight settings and adjustments are, i.e. 1/4 minute scope 1/2 minute AR etc. I don't know if this would help or not.
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Believer said
Not using a sling properly?  Tell them to get with the program.
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Absolutely. This is one example of how far basic marksmanship skill is lacking with shooters today. How many ways do you say the sling is not just for carrying the rifle? For goodness sake when you come to the appleseed learn to use your sling. 
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Believer said
I am not recommending that you be a jerk in your instruction, however, it is kinder in the long run to call it like you see it then let a shooter get away with a lame excuse.
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This is one area I need to work on. I know there are drills and such that would help shooters become better all around shooters. But it seems some only want to do what is fun. Fun is good but in order to become proficient with a rifle there is work involved. These are things I have noticed at some of our local shoots. I guess you could say if your serious about becoming a rifleman you need to do these things. If you?re not serious then why are you here? I certainly don't want to come across as a jerk. But these things work you just have to give it a try.
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Believer said
I believe the boot camp was another significant step forward in the Appleseed program.  It was a success, period. 
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I couldn't agree more. Are there areas for improvement you bet? But this was the first one and a learning experience for all. Thanks a bunch for all your efforts Believer.
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Believer said
In looking at the upcoming 2007 calendar, I see several other significant steps forward.  The program is growing to the point were Fred, Cabinboy and myself will not be able to attend a majority of the shoots.  These shoots will have to be run by others.  The boot camp looks to be a significant source of new instructors.  Those who attended the camp are the future of the program.
_____________________________________________________________________

This is very true. We all need to realize the workload these guys have endured even though I'm sure it is a labor of love. I'm in the process now of figuring my remaining vacation days at work and will be talking to the boss about additional days off if needed. If I can help in anyway I want to be able to. The groundwork is being laid its up to the rest of us to step up to the plate. 
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Believer said
If you are reading this and have not yet been to an Appleseed, get off you butt and attend one.  You will not be sorry that you did.  The people that you will meet and the skill set that you will learn will serve you the rest of your life!  More importantly, after you attend, turn around and teach others.
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He is telling you the truth. It is well worth the effort for you to make the trip. If its a money thing trust me find a way to make the trip it will be the best money you ever spent if you are serious about learning to shoot a rifle and to do your part in the defense of liberty. After all many shed a lot of blood to protect your 2nd amendment right. The least you can do is learn the tradition of rifle marksmanship and pass if on the next generation otherwise my friend rest assured it to will be lost.   

Don?t keep putting if off. How secure do you think your liberties are? What if we suffer another ?terrorist attack?? More government intrusion and restrictions. What if some nut job goes off the deep with an ?assault rifle?? What if there is a disaster in your neck of the woods and big brothers comes for your rifle like they did in New Orleans? What if an executive order is singed banning the importation of surplus ammunition? What if an ammunition tax is passed?

You get the picture now. So how much longer are you going to wait?   


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?The first maxim of a man who loves liberty, should be never to grant to rulers an atom of power that is not most clearly and indispensably necessary for the safety and well being of society?
Richard Henry Lee..


Mike Wallace
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     Re: FLASH REPORT! Rifleman Boot Camp!
<< Reply #33 on: September 11, 2006, 07:19:37 PM >> Quote 

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Quote from: Lady 4LIBERTY on September  5, 2006, 10:33:20 PM
Now a word from the only woman at the boot camp.
   
You were needed there Lady 4Liberty, a bloom in a briar patch so to speak, however, that patch would have sent much accurate lead and fire downrange, thorn's galore. You even kept big Ray's language [mostly] decent and believe me having been there when you and groom were not there; it was not an easy or delicate task.


I want to personally thank Fred and all instructors for their help as a group and one on one. Even though Tom and I didn?t make it to a full day of boot camp until Tuesday and our last day was Friday, my shooting skills improved greatly. I will admit that on Tuesday morning I felt as if I was in one of those pictures on which one doesn?t belong, all these men and then me.  Once we started into prep time I felt better about it all. I don?t think I will feel out of place anymore. I wasn?t there to compete against anyone but myself.
   
That was one of the wonders of Boot Camp: we all wanted to exceed our own scores and build personal skill sets; it seems to me, it worked including the Brooklynite, too bad the liberal/socialists/communists/UN agenda nanny government types couldn't celebrate this kind of true diversity as they spin diversity into perversity.

   
Yes, the first two days that I shot were very hot and humid, but I couldn?t let that stop me. I was there to learn and improve my skills, I wanted to take in as much as I could in the time that I was there. Thursday and Friday were a lot better with the clouds and lower temps.
   
You didn't let all the negative situations both here in RWVA and at home drag you down: you were focused on learning and you did just that. You didn't score a Rifleman score in part at least because of faulty equipment, NOT Instructors or the Patriot factor many brought and developed further with accuracy, there. Son of Martha pointed out correctly and with eloquence, what a group to work with; no one could have picked randomly a better fire team with which to work on those problems and issues we faced individually and together.

We would shoot, go down range, score, come back and do it again.  Any suggestions from instructors were taken and worked on for the next group. Everyone having a great time and encouraging each other was always heard. What a great group of people. To my left was a very encouraging man. When I was distracted by other things or discouraged, Mike always had something uplifting to say that helped. Thanks again Mike, I hope all is well.
   
All is well, Lady 4Liberty. Matter of fact, this past Saturday, 86 year old Mom and I went to local TROOP E/108 CAV/48 BCT Ga USANG Armory in Griffin, Ga and handed out cigars to those who chose to take one for their service in Iraq from May of 2005 to April of 2006 AD, remembering the three who made the supreme sacrifice: SPC M. Stokely, SGT K. Draughan, SSGT B. Hollar. Point is, she could and was willing to meet and greet men who'd fought for us all to keep the war mostly there in the terrorist's backyard and not again in our own, ie. today is 9/11/06 AD. Didn't mean to take so long replying but my schedule here is primary care-giver full.


After Believer, Son of Martha, Atlas Shrug, and ornell fuggett working with me trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, they determined that part of my problems were actually my rifle. Not that I doubted what they were saying, I thought I could overcome my rifles problems. Well, by the end of Friday, to many of my shots were still off, results?no rifleman score (sorry Fred)
   
Same here Lady. I sort of know how you think on this. The full length range score has to be 200; scoring 199 made me 'high cook' according to cabinboy's sarcastic report, too true it seems, but not for long. So be it for now: Lord willing, there'll be a Rifleman in your family and in mine with practice and persistence, right? RIGHT. Besides, shooting at 200, 300 and 400 and watching those pop-ups fall immediately upon crack/thump was VERY satisfying.


While I was learning at the boot camp, I kept thinking how neat it will be to get home and help our daughter and other ladies we know with the things I was taught.
   
You mentioned that y'all might go to one of the Texas Appleseed shoots and have your two daughters shoot. Should that happen, as you point out, that is what it is all about: passing this down to the next generation; Freedom and Liberty.


We left to come home on Saturday, went and bought a new rifle on Sunday, Monday sighted the rifle in, and one AQT later, rifleman score of 219. Ah, how sweet it is, even though I exceeded the time limit on stages two and three.  Now I have to continue to work on the six steps to firing the shots, and slow down and shoot quick.
 
Bet you will too and teach those teen age daughters as well. 4Liberty and you have a job cut out for your family. He's a real down to earth Instructor and was a help to me in figuring what the issues were for me and all the others he helped.


I just want to end this by trying to encourage women as well as men to go to an Appleseed shoot. Bring your kids to shoot also, they ARE our future, we need to keep these skills alive. You will not regret it! You will meet good people at them, and friends to always remember. I look forward to seeing these gentlemen at future Appleseed shoots. I am asking ladies to please give this a try, I am one of the most reserved people God created, if I can do this you can to. 
   
Amen and I'm Thankful for you both; I know y'all will show off your family well in coming events.
   Mike W.



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Ogive
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     Re: FLASH REPORT! Rifleman Boot Camp!
<< Reply #34 on: September 17, 2006, 01:20:55 PM >> Quote 

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I attended the weekend Appleseed in Ramseur in February but did not make Rifleman that weekend. I did, however, promise myself I was going to shoot rifleman scores within the year.  I could NOT pass up the Boot Camp!

Note for FAL Appleseeders:
    Between Feb and Aug, I worked on solving an issue with my DSA built STG58 model FAL.  The standard issue STG58 FAL has a sling and bi-pod attached to the barrel. This matters considerably. Novice I was in the gun store, I saw the FAL and said, "Cool, a built-in bi-pod."  I imagined myself using it for spot-on distance shooting.  Real life experience in February unfolded a different plot.  I discovered that my zero established using the bi-pod (exerting upward pressure on the barrel) was VERY different from the POI (point of impact) when using a sling which exerted some downward pressure on the barrel.  In fact the POI changed so much, I could not, with the front post I had at the time, crank it down enough to get a sighted-in zero using a sling.  So I drove away that 2nd day in Feb with a resolution instead of a Rifleman's patch.
    I noted in my life's-lessons book that highly-regarded equipment, unproven, unadjusted may produce disappointing results. 
    My credit card and DSA got acquainted and their free-floating handguard with a nut to attach a sling swivel found its way onto my FAL.  Local range testing found... Ahhh... a stable zero while using a tight sling !!!   
    A boot camp there was another guy shooting a FAL all week.  He had the standard issue FAL with sling-on-barrel.  It seemed his progress was beset with a sling-induced variations. 

BOOT CAMP:
    I was really fortunate to be able to take my 26 year old son along to Boot Camp. The first time he shot a high power rifle was the day before we drove to NC, when he test shot the newly-bought (twin) FAL which that very morning had the free-floating handguard with sling attachment installed.  It was great to see him progress from his first AQT score of 65 (as rangemaster Instructor, Believer, mentioned above) to a rifleman score on Thursday evening.   
    For me, Boot Camp was a grueling satisfaction.  The heat and humidity produced the grueling part and the shooting progress I made was the satisfaction.  By the end of the week, I was getting steadier - even on standing - so that most of the holes were on-target.  Overweight and out of shape, I use the least stable of kneeling positions, but still, through the consistent practice turned in some Pretty good scores.  Prone?  I've got a swelled head !!!  I am SO pumped at putting 6 of 9 shots in the V circle (about 9 inches) at 500 yards !!!  (I had introduced another hardware variable to my FAL: the Shepherd scope.)     
    Driving back home Sunday, after the 8th day, when there was a lull in conversation, one of us would say, "Guess what I did?" Pulling the Rifleman patch out of our shirt pocket, we would wave it in front of the other and say, "I qualified as a Rifleman."
    My son left my home today after his long visit that began with 8 days of Boot Camp. He said what a great time he had and how he still felt a sense of satisfaction that he is now one of the best. He volunteered that he felt confident he could pick up a rifle and with the feedback of a few shots, know how to adjust to hit the target.  He said, "Think what I might be able to do with the light trigger of the M1A instead of the 12 pound triggers we have on the FALs."   
    One of the things he and I reflected on in the days following Boot Camp was the impressive  dedicated service the instructors provided all week.  They were constantly prepping and maintaining the range (especially range 1) and focused on keeping things rolling along. 
    The first time, my resolve on leaving was to get the patch within a year.  Now my resolve is to help others get theirs.

Ken (& Shaphan),
Riflemen   
     


 

 
     











   

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4LIBERTY
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     Re: FLASH REPORT! Rifleman Boot Camp!
<< Reply #35 on: September 17, 2006, 09:11:28 PM >> Quote 

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Kentuckys Virginian

Great post.

Lady 4LIBERTY also learned a few things about her short barreled Arc 15.

One was the sling putting stress on the barrel. Two unable to hold a steady position with a collapsible stock. Three the stock was uncomfortable after a full day at the range.

The results of this were inconsistent groups and changing zeros.

We have fixed the problems and low and behold her scores and confidence show it.

Lessons learned.   and thanks for the resolve to help others get their patch.



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fred
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      Re: FLASH REPORT! Rifleman Boot Camp!
<< Reply #36 on: September 18, 2006, 06:55:35 AM >> Quote 

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    Good posts, all! I am taking the liberty of putting the best snippets in SGN in Oct.

     Re the 'tight sling, bending barrel' problem.

     Believe you can get by with the 'snug' not the 'tight' sling. It's a simple modification - to go from 'tight' by ratcheting back to no more than 'snug' (no losseness to the sling, but not much, if any, tightness - just snug, is all ).

     'Snug' equals consistency of pressure on the barrel.

     'Snug' equals minumum pressure on the barrel. Hopefully, so minimum, there is no barrel-bend problem.

      'Snug' is easy to do, for the experienced rifleman, less easy (as the case so often is) for the newbie. Start with a loose sling (slack in the sling when in position) and tighten up a little at the time until the slack is out. That's all there is to it. The sling will support the weight of the rifle, but other than the support, there is no pressure other than the weight of the rifle. Any rifle where the barrel bends under the weight of the rifle, and no other pressure, is not the rifle for you! 

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