What's a good scope for my MBR? Here are Russian ones I like...

[henschman]

My new DPMS LR-308 (flat top, 20" barrel) is going to be here shortly, and I am shopping for a scope to put on it.  Don't worry, I will also be putting a flip-up rear sight on it (I know the degree to which Appleseed preaches iron sights)!  Anyway, I just thought I'd ask for some input on scope selection for a MBR.  I really like these two scopes from Kalinka optics:  http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/detail.aspx?ID=59, http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/detail.aspx?ID=76

... They are Russian scopes that are military-grade, so they seem to be tough and reliable (a good thing for a battle rifle), they have illuminated reticles, and I really like the reticle design itself because it has a built-in rangefinder that is based on the height of a man, so you can quickly gauge how many MOA you need to hold off.  Plus these scopes seem to be really good quality, especially if they are right about the quality being comparable to Zeiss or Leupold.  Maybe the most attractive thing is the price... $180 is hard to beat for all the stuff these things offer.  The only downside seems to be that the finishes are kind of ugly (who cares, its a tool) and the fact that the "left," "right," "up," and "down" markings are in Russian (which is no big deal really).

But I was just wondering if anyone had any experience with these, or other suggestions for a scope. 

[henschman]

anyone?

[Old Dog]

no experience with them myself.  Never heard of them till I saw your post.  Sounds like a good price if the scope is what the ad says it is. 

Two things to do, buy and try or don't buy.  Now is the time to buy and put it to use to see if it lasts so you can buy something else if it doesn't.

[henschman]

true... I doubt anyone else on here has any experience with those scopes.  I think I'll give the POSP a try... it looks like it would mount to my flat-top receiver without any additional hardware such as a riser or anything... for most other scopes, i would need a riser and rings.  I like how the POSP is one unit that removes easily with two screws, in case I need to use those irons.  I bet it returns to its zero too, like with most scopes that use the weaver mount. 

I'll let the board know how it turns out, and post some pics.

[oldgrunt]

Like I said I will float you the ones I have but they are for the 54r zeroed at 200m to get the full effect of the scopes....I dont think you want to go that route..Give what I told you a thought???I will teach you how to use mildots just the same ..lol hint hint ..clue ,clue.......Seeya feb5 in okc if you still want to play with the svd tubes lol

[ashrn03]

Actually, I do have experience with a 4x24 POSP.  The one I have has the integral side mount for AK's and Saiga's, but the scope is similar to the one posted.  The optics are clear, the reticle in the 4x version is easy to use, and the whole assembly was apparently conceived by the Central Design Bureau for Railroad Bridges: it's probably stronger than the AK or Saiga receiver (the receivers are 1mm steel stampings).  The chevrons in the 4x model are reported to be aiming points for 100, 200, and 300 meters for the 7.62x39 round.  In practice, the top chevron works well at both 100 and 200 meters (the scope is way above the axis of the bore).    

The turret adjustments are a bit coarse by western standards: 1.8 MOA per click (or 3.6 MOA per division).  All the turret markings are in cyrillic; once you figure out what BHN3 or BBEPX, and BUPABO or BVEBO mean (the N's are actually backwards, and the U & V are upside down) you're golden.  Actually, the elevation is pretty simple it starts at 0 and goes up from there.  The windage is a bit trickier, once you're zeroed (on a zero, no less) you can either go increasing black numbers or increasing red numbers.  You're turning BUPABO when you're increasing 'black' and BVEBO when increasing 'red'.  Personally, I don't like messing with scopes once I have a zero so I don't worry about it.  There are are windage marks on the reticle for holding off: each mark is 10 cm at 100m (3.9 MOA).    

You can download the owners manual from the Kalinka website and I'd suggest you read it before buying the scope.  

[artandscience]

Fredness has one in 6x I believe and I've used it a bit. Loved it. Solid as a rock (feel like it would make a good HTH weapon all by itself when the battery dies - LOL). You can ask him about longevity, and build quality. I'm going to buy a couple at that price. Definitely well designed and built.

[student]

Keep in mind sometimes going up in power will actually open your groups up. 

Having a fixed 8x will be good for target ID but may not give the best groups. 

Fixed power will also eliminates the problem of zero shift between powers.

I generally like the Russian stuff.  Tell us how it works out.

Aaron

[henschman]

Well, now I'm having second thoughts about it... I would prefer a scope that adjusts in increments of MOA.  Oldgrunt, you are probably right... I would probably be better off with a good old mil dot scope.  You can estimate range with those too, and they are set up for the old familiar MOA system instead of that metric stuff. 

I do like how durable these russkie scopes are, though. 

[henschman]

well, the guys on AR15.com are saying that while the scope itself really solid and the AK side mounts are really good, the mounts on the weaver base versions like I'm looking at leave something to be desired.  One guy said the mount broke after 600 rounds or so, and another said it didn't mount the scope very straight.  Sounds like I need to go a different route. 

[mtmisfit]

DPMS flattop .308, that is an accurate rig so try not to hamstring it with cheap glass.

Why a 56mm objective? that's a huge scope.

Get a hi-rise mount like the one from Rock River Arms and pick up a Pentax Pioneer or something similar.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=326
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/pentax.pl?page=pentax89620

In the end, cheap glass is cheap glass.  Get the best you can afford and cry once.

[riderclimber]

I haven't been able to find anything on iron sights for the dpms lr-308.  The other boards I have looked at have people that think SOMETHING ought to work, but nobody knows for sure.  Something about the lower front rail?  Anyone have sights on their lr-308 they could recommend? 

-brian

[arpjoe]

I PM'd riderclimber but thought maybe I could put out general info/experience on his question on ironsights for the DPMS LR-308.

I got my LR-308 just before DPMS made available a 308 Detachable Carrying Handle with the Rear Sight.  The small Detachable Rear Sight that came with my LR-308 had limited rear sight elevation adjustment.  2009 NRA High Power rules changed to allow a US Service Rifle 7.62 Caliber M-110 series but I needed the detachable carrying handle according the the new rules.

I got the 308 Detachable Carrying Handle the end of January and recently got the rifle zeroed with the Detachable Carry Handle.  Midway USA had it in stock at a lower price, but I did not know it until after I had ordered from DPMS.  I think the Detachable Carrying Handle is worth the few bucks more than the small Detachable Rear Sight.

PS - I have the AP4 model with the A2 front sight which is different from the gas block front sight rail mount.

Joe

[bedford]

I bought a Kalinka scope after reading this post.  I bought the 4x one with the sks range finder.  I really like it.  The optics are very clear.  It reminds me very much of the Valdada M1 except it is lighter, is much uglier, and the turret adjustments are not as crisp.

Unfortunately, they no longer have that scope on the web site, they must have sold out of it.

[ItsanSKS]

Regarding the Russian Pattern POSP scopes:

My father recently purchased a Romanian PSL-54C (a romanian Dragunov variant, based on the AK design) and it came with a romanian scope copied off the POSP design.  Designated the LPS 4-6*, it is a fixed 4x scope.

I found this scope to be an excellent piece of hardware, well suited to the rifle it was attached to.  The glass was remarkably clear, the reticule was busy, but not distracting, and, overall, very easy to get accustomed to. 

Adjusting the scope is a breeze, and the clicks are precise and repeatable.  (click to "3", fire three rounds, click back to "0", then click back to "3" fire three more rounds, and you end up with a solid 6 round group, with POI matching POA at 300 meters.)

While not adjustable for MOA clicks, per se, I believe this system would work MUCH faster in the field, though you lose some fine-tuning capability.  Remember though- we're striving to maintain 4 MOA, anything better is gravy!

One of the best features of this scope?  Being able to visually confirm the adjustment- as you click the adjustment turrets, the reticule moves.  Want to zero for a range not indicated on the scope itself?  Mechanically rest the rifle, fire a sighter shot at the range desired, then adjust reticule so that it corresponds to your POI- voila!   If you're really handy, you can do this from the prone position, though maintaining your exact NPOA is really hard to do.  (I tried this first, then decided on the machine rest)

[henschman]

I ended up getting a Burris Fullfield II 3-9x42 with the Ballistic Plex reticle for my LR308.  I like it a lot -- The bullet drop compensator reticle is really nice, and it works... I zeroed it at 300 yards on the 3rd little crosshair down, and the rest of them are pretty much right on for their respective ranges.  It has aiming points from 100 to 500 yards.  I wish it had them out to 1000 or so, but its nice to be able to quickly engage any target within the "Rifleman's quarter mile" by just estimating the range and putting the right crosshair on it.  It would be ideal for the KD AQT.  I only paid $200 for that scope and it came with a good set of binoculars too, so I'm pretty satisfied for the money.  It has excellent clarity.

Somebody asked about iron sights for the LR308... Mine came with the removable carrying handle, which is great, but since I leave it scoped most of the time I put a Knights Armament Company 200-600 meter flip-up backup iron sight on it and I love it.  Its so great I often prefer to take the scope off and shoot with irons instead!  The KAC is the only BUIS I could find that has adjustable elevation in MOA-increment clicks just like the factory irons.  It only adjusts out to 600 while the factory handle sights go to 800, but its not a big deal.  I recommend the KAC far above any other BUIS.  I think they run about $160-180 new, which is more than many backup sights, but I got mine for $110 barely used from a guy on AR15.com.  I think its worth it even at full price though.