Ruger mini front sling stud move.

[viperrt1]

So as we all know the importance of sling. Many people don't know if the sling is attached to barrel either directly like sks or 10/22 ect. or indirectly like my mini can move the bullet impact over 6 inch at 100 yards.

So I wanted move my sling stud.
Problems
1. Finding real stainless steel stud.
2. Made in USA
3. Stock is synthetic
4. Stock is thin due to op rod chanel.

Solutions
Ruger makes a stanless steel USA made stud for the rear.
So I got one cut it down to fit.

Now the the stock. So I took some jb weld to help hold the stud and spread out the forces.

This also fixes the locking or lack of locking of studs in synthetic stocks.
As you can see u left the front sling loop. Now look like mini garand lol.

[henschman]

Cool, good work.  That's how they should be from the factory.  I've done the same thing on an AR-15, and even without a free floated handguard, it really helps lessen POI shift from using the sling.

[viperrt1]

Thanks. I was shocked when I discovered POI could change so much.
You can have things on barrel. But they can't move or change.
I see lot 10/22 with sling clamp. I changed it just like my mini. Only difference is there a lot more room so I used washer and machine screw stud.

I always wonder how many shoots are missed because of this.

[viperrt1]

Cool, good work.  That's how they should be from the factory.  I've done the same thing on an AR-15, and even without a free floated handguard, it really helps lessen POI shift from using the sling.

I don't own ar. But ya I forgot they don't have "stocks" do they. Why don't you float handguard? Is it as issued match rifle?

[henschman]

I had that on a rifle with a Magpul MOE handguard.  I used a sling stud from KNS designed for the factory AR handguard.  I eventually put a free float on it, but that setup got me by in the mean time.  It let me put the sling attachment point right where I like it.  I use it as a hand stop as well, and locate it just forward of where my support hand goes when my support elbow is bent 90 degrees.  This keeps the sling from sliding down my arm when it is "snug" for field use rather than "banjo string tight" like a match sling.

[mac66]

Back in the day I simply pulled the front swivel loop off  my Mini 30, drilled out the hole a bit, narrowed the width with a Dremel and put a QD sling swivel on it.  Used it for hunting for 25+ years (killed a number of deer) and last summer added Tech Sights on it to try at AS. Never thought about it changing the POI.  Going to have check that out.

[viperrt1]

Back in the day I simply pulled the front swivel loop off  my Mini 30, drilled out the hole a bit, narrowed the width with a Dremel and put a QD sling swivel on it.  Used it for hunting for 25+ years (killed a number of deer) and last summer added Tech Sights on it to try at AS. Never thought about it changing the POI.  Going to have check that out.

That what I did at first. And served it's purpose. But as my shooting got better I started finding little things like this affecting POI and accuracy.

[mac66]

Back in the day I simply pulled the front swivel loop off  my Mini 30, drilled out the hole a bit, narrowed the width with a Dremel and put a QD sling swivel on it.  Used it for hunting for 25+ years (killed a number of deer) and last summer added Tech Sights on it to try at AS. Never thought about it changing the POI.  Going to have check that out.

That what I did at first. And served it's purpose. But as my shooting got better I started finding little things like this affecting POI and accuracy.

I appreciate you pushing the envelope. I shot some squares with mine in prone and had trouble with consistency. I use a very tight sling so I am sure I am changing the POI like on some of my .22s.   Gonna have to try mounting a stud on mine.

[viperrt1]

I have found with any gun, if you touch the barrel in any way it will change POI. This can be good. IE barrel clamping or other odd things. but to get good test data forces need to be equal and what not. 

Let me know how your stud move goes. If you need help let me know. 

[Trig]

My wife is working on shooting rifleman with a centerfire, her rifle of choice, the mini 14 (could be influenced by me being a m1a guy... who knows ). Anyways, the standard sling location was WAY to far away for her to be stable, her support arm was nearly fully extended in order for the sling to be useful.  We took note of what her comfortable support arm position was, and found that putting a sling stud about 3.5 inches back would be ideal for her.   I tapped the stock and started to insert the shorter sling stud provided with most swivel/stud sets.   Once it was installed, the Oprod was totally inoperable, that stud was binding the movement of the oprod.  It required 2 full revolutions (counterclockwise to unscrew it) before we had full function of the oprod.  I plan on cutting the screw making it flush with the inside of the stock, similar to what you did.   I had no idea that short stud would go through the stock and mess with the oprod, I've done it with 10/22s a hundred times, so I didn't even think about it!  Just sharing my experiences with a similar situation!

[viperrt1]

Ya the 1022 doesn't have op rod. And has lots of space.
Did you drill though the op rod guide? Thats how I knew how tall to cut the stud.

[Trig]

No, I backed the stud out until I had full function of the oprod, then measured the distance from the stock to the head of the stud.  That gave me the amount I needed to remove from the threads of the stud.

[viperrt1]

Is it wood stock? Mine has metal liner so there would be no way to hit op rod other then removing or drilling.

Just wondering is all. I know there changes from models and years

[Trig]

The stock is wood with a metal liner.  The stud went through the wood and dented the liner to the point that the liner was interfering with the oprod's movement. The further we screwed in the stud, the liner would bend inward and impede the oprod.

You can see in the picture the metal worn where all the contact was with the stud raising it causing the contact.

[viperrt1]

Ah ok thank you for cleaning that up.

[DrRichP]

First, great topic and great posts here.

Regarding stud placement and free floating barrels and forestocks: The reason we free float barrels and put free floating forestocks on rifles in the first place is to reduce extrinsic forces on the barrel which would limit barrel harmonics, and adversely effect accuracy. Once you attach a sling to a non-free floated barrel, you introduce lateral extrinsic forces to the barrel. Is it an issue? It depends on the shooter.

An experienced Rifleman who does the same thing the same way each time with the same amount of tension on his/her sling will introduce the same amount of extrinsic force to the barrel each time, which will be compensated for when you zero your rifle. So in the end, it depends on the consistency of the Rifleman behind the trigger.

I always tend to put a second sling swivel stud a few inches forward of the magazine well in front of where my hand naturally rests in a prone position. The reasons are two fold.

1) If you were to relax your support arm, as we teach, and let the sling hold your support arm in place, you'd likely have to drag knuckles like a gorilla to let your hand go all the way forward to the end of the stock where the sling swivel usually resides. It makes more sense to have it closer to where your support arm is in a comfortable position.

2) Think about swinging a hammer. Do you hold the hammer at the end of the handle or up towards the top? Most likely at the end. Why? Because that is where you get the most leverage and introduce the most force. If you attach the sling to the swivel furthest away from the trigger group, you exercise more force and leverage to the end of the barrel which will adversely affect your POI. By moving it closer to the mag well, you reduce the amount of force on the non-free floated barrel and thereby reduce the effect on POI.

Probably more scientific an explanation than you were looking for, but from my experience it applies.  Good luck and I hope this helps.

[viperrt1]

First, great topic and great posts here.

Regarding stud placement and free floating barrels and forestocks: The reason we free float barrels and put free floating forestocks on rifles in the first place is to reduce extrinsic forces on the barrel which would limit barrel harmonics, and adversely effect accuracy. Once you attach a sling to a non-free floated barrel, you introduce lateral extrinsic forces to the barrel. Is it an issue? It depends on the shooter.

An experienced Rifleman who does the same thing the same way each time with the same amount of tension on his/her sling will introduce the same amount of extrinsic force to the barrel each time, which will be compensated for when you zero your rifle. So in the end, it depends on the consistency of the Rifleman behind the trigger.

I always tend to put a second sling swivel stud a few inches forward of the magazine well in front of where my hand naturally rests in a prone position. The reasons are two fold.

1) If you were to relax your support arm, as we teach, and let the sling hold your support arm in place, you'd likely have to drag knuckles like a gorilla to let your hand go all the way forward to the end of the stock where the sling swivel usually resides. It makes more sense to have it closer to where your support arm is in a comfortable position.

2) Think about swinging a hammer. Do you hold the hammer at the end of the handle or up towards the top? Most likely at the end. Why? Because that is where you get the most leverage and introduce the most force. If you attach the sling to the swivel furthest away from the trigger group, you exercise more force and leverage to the end of the barrel which will adversely affect your POI. By moving it closer to the mag well, you reduce the amount of force on the non-free floated barrel and thereby reduce the effect on POI.

Probably more scientific an explanation than you were looking for, but from my experience it applies.  Good luck and I hope this helps.

Your right if you did do the same exact movements then it wouldn't matter. However does that really happen no, for argument sake extrinsic force is human. 
IE why you don't see perfect score at shooting matches even though the guns are more then able to.

The explanations is good one.
I like your idea of moving the sling back. I don't do that much because I am a tall person. But for normal people that makes a lot of sense. Good tip.

So you know in the future I know my way around natural frequencies and harmonics physics. Most people don't so I tend to leave the explanations out. I over complicate them quickly. 
So thank you for good explanations of it.

[viperrt1]

Trigger nick

Has the wood stock held up with the use? I know on synthetic is very thin. Or did you reenforce it some how?