America's Fundamental Problem?

[Garand]

While apathy is one of the most significant problems Americans have, is the apathy American's fundamental problem; is apathy the fundamental problem or is it just an effect of the fundamental problem? For example, Americans as a whole do not seem to have a good grasp of what the most fundamental purpose of government is; they do not seem to understand what their rights are, nor the nature of these rights. How many Americans understand what self government is? If Americans do not understand these concepts, can we succeed in saving the country? Could the fundamental problem be a deterioration of virtue and morality? The Founders said that a country that was not moral and virtuous could not enjoy liberty and would be ruled by tyrants. I ask these questions since it seems prudent to identify the problem in order to find the best solutions. This is not to say that the Appleseed Project is not the solution. I firmly believe that it is part of the solution. But is it whole solution or just part of the solution?

[dart67eb]

It's not enough to write letters, make phone calls and attend town halls.  The system is rigged but you have to know how to use the system's rules to get what you want accomplished.  Take a look at http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/group/invadethegop?xg_source=activity  This may not be your party but I'm sure the other party has the same thing.

[Super Dave]

Oh boy...

Well, yeah, I would probably agree that apathy is the symptom of the problem.

I might state that the overall problem that many have grown into is a philosophical problem.  There really wasn't a good ground work of the ideology of the Founding Fathers, thus, as they passed on, their ideology wasn't carried on very well to the next generations.  The academics that followed did not have reasoned philosophical ideologies of Mill, Adam Smith, Aristotle, and the like.  They were followers of Kant, Marx, and other ideologies of that location that believed that centralized control and group rights were better than self governance and individual rights.  So many contradictions exist in some philosophy too. 

The overall confusion that penetrated academia has continued.  Individuals leave high school hopeful to gain more knowledge in college only to be smashed with claims that they are no answers to go along with their current upbringing that promotes no winners and other ideas that doesn't recognize reward for the accomplishment of a task.

As expansive government has inserted itself as the replacement for individual choices on charity and benevolence, some individuals have lost any idea of being held responsible for their personal actions and they have neglected their opportunity to hold government accountable for a lack of values and morality in the willy-nilly way that it has grown away from its specific limitations as set by the Founding Fathers under the United States Constitution. 

In the recent past, I've studied and read more and more about these things, and the moral issues that individuals had to weigh at Concord and Lexington really do apply.  They recognized that they had rights that were above the notion of government.  They recognized that they valued the morality of their ability to self govern. 

I do not believe that the Founding Fathers wished the system to be rigged.  It was to be for all men.  Men that were reasoned, respectable, and honorable.  Government was not an entity that was to be used to initiate force, as it does so often now, but it was to be an objective force that would only use force as a retaliatory measure. 

[Old Dog]

What is wrong with America?  Evolution has stopped.  Too many folks who should not be contributing to the gene pool are kept alive to further damage our future.

Think about it.  Two hundred years ago if you were dumb enough to go sailing in a hurricane (or even a really bad storm) mother nature took care of things.  Today the Coast Guard uses our tax dollars to save them so they can produce more just like themselves.  Same for mountain climbing in winter storms.  For driving through flooded creeks/rivers (yeah, it used to be wagons and now its cars/trucks - same thing).  Sitting around waiting for someone else to give you food, housing, clothing, etc. because you don't want to work used to result in something besides the use or tax dollars to provide you the opportunity to have a family of kids that would grow up to follow the example set by their worthless parents.

The bears, the wolves, the indians, the weather no longer remove the lower levels of contributors from the gene pool.

[henschman]

I believe the most fundamental problem with America, and with the entire human race, is the failure of the vast majority of individuals to adopt a consistent philosophy of liberty.  You could say that this is a moral failure.  I believe that it is immoral to deny liberty to anyone.  However, the majority of human beings are committed to philosophies that divide liberty up into parts that they support, and parts that they do not; and which are committed to the use of force and violence against other people to deny them the parts of liberty that the aggressor does not like.  Everybody says, "Oh, I believe in liberty, but I believe that (x pet cause) is so important that we have to make an exception."  The problem is that there are no shortages of these pet causes, in the names of which people are willing to violate the liberty of others.

One major reason that I am involved with Appleseed is that I believe it helps people to think a little more about liberty.  I believe that marksmanship and shooting are gateway drugs to liberty, and gives the individual a powerful means to resist attempts on his liberty.  I also believe that stories about the Revolutionary War promote liberty, because they show pro-liberty role models for people to follow that people can feel a strong connection to because of the heritage aspect.  I would like to see some more of that Revolutionary spirit in society, and that resolve not to countenance any violation of one's liberty.  I also want people to be more vigilant to threats to liberty, and to always think about the issue of liberty any time they hear someone promoting the initiation of force to acheive some nice-sounding goal.

I realize that not everyone who attends an Appleseed will adopt views just like mine, but I believe that it will get some people started down the road toward such views, and that the program is broad enough in it's appeal that it can reach a lot of people that otherwise might never hear a pro-liberty message.

I also realize that some people teach things at Appleseeds that I believe pushes people away from a consistent pro-liberty view, and in fact lead them toward more statist or authoritarian philosophies, or tend to reinforce such beliefs that people already posess.  I just try to make sure these things do not happen at my own events, and that I instead plant the seed of liberty in their mind, which if watered by reason, will blossom into a consistent pro-liberty outlook.

[Cyclops WY]

Will somebody in the US Congress and or Senate



Please *$&#($^&#  read this and pass it along to the guy to your left!!

[Antibubba]

Is it apathy, or just burnout? 

As a planet there is so much infotainment coming our way that we don't have much time for civil engagement.  This is true in every nation, but America is one of the few nations where individual freedom was emphasized from the start (unlike Japan, for example).  So we've had farther to fall, and we have.

[Cyclops WY]

Please refer back to upper post.  Please read it and pass it along to the man on your left.

That's the problem in my book.

[Garand]

Having read the replies and after thinking about the growth of government and other events throughout American history, the most likely reason America is where it is today can be summed up like this: Some were between the founding of the nation and today, Americans lost the moral and ethical framework necessary for a proper understanding of liberty and self government.

[siglite]

deleted by author

[Son of Martha]

.

[nyrasgt]

Submit extremely simple analysis:
Lack, among citizens today, of taking personal, individual responsibility (most important, those three words) for, not only themselves (behavior, beliefs, and most of all, actions), but their families, communities, and their government (those last five words also fairly important) on a regular, consistent basis, i.e. every single day.  Simple.

As I said, simple to point out; solving said problem...not so much.  The solution is the 6 trillion-dollar question, on which the entire Republic and its future rests...extremely precariously.

  Allow one brief example:  in most recent election, New York State led (!?) with the lowest voter turn-out
by percentage of the population IN THE NATION.  My state.  The "Empire" (ironic) State.  Like anti-matter, which cannot exist in the presence of matter, this is anti-leadership, and extremely frightening.  Respectfully submit that AS is the opposite.
Excelsior,
madMark

[siglite]

I edited out my post above, because we're edging perilously close to political discussion. 

[Fred]

    The reason to edit out your post is not that the discussion is getting close to politics, but because this thread is essentially a waste of valuable time.

     We in Appleseed know what the problem(s) is/are, and we are fixing them, as rapidly as we can, by bringing/getting people to Appleseed.

     In the time it takes to read this thread, how many of your friends could you have talked to about AS?

     How many radio talk shows could you have searched out via a google search? (And while you're at it, search both "how to get on radio talk shows" and "how to get your message across on a radio talk show" as well as "how to become a persuasive public speaker".)

     Then, after you're prepared, start calling them.

     Getting people to an Appleseed.

     You see this saying, time after time, on this site.

     That's what you can and should be doing - it's called, "bailing out the sinking ship" - the rest of this thread? It's simply "talk".

      Because, in this program, we already know the answer to "America's Fundamental Problem" - continuing to talk about it simply distracts us from the Mission - and from doing something to accomplish that Mission.

      Remember: One new recruit every twelve months, and we double this program. Anyone for tripling it?

[vernic82]

My father used to say, "Talk is cheap".

While we need to talk to more & more people everyday or at least at every opportunity about their attending an Appleseed near them, it's this type of talk that will lead to the action we need.

Awareness & Involvement.

Talk may be cheap but we as individuals are able to get fellow Americans to wake up, it's priceless.

[Gordon]

    ...this thread is essentially a waste of valuable time.

Sir, I respectfully disagree.

I have always thought, and often said, the the vision and mission of The Appleseed Project is outrageously bold. Indeed, at first glance, it seems simplistic that by teaching Marksmanship and the Story of one day in American history, we literally intend to save the country.

I do not claim to know all that is necessary for achieving success in this bold and worthy endeavor, but I do know this: It depends crucially on the inspired and minds and hearts of the cadre. For some, including me, threads like this serve to feed that inspiration.

Thank you for creating and leading this great effort. It is indeed inspiring.

-FM / Gordon Wade.

PS: Edited for typos only!  

[Garand]

    The reason to edit out your post is not that the discussion is getting close to politics, but because this thread is essentially a waste of valuable time.

     We in Appleseed know what the problem(s) is/are, and we are fixing them, as rapidly as we can, by bringing/getting people to Appleseed.

     In the time it takes to read this thread, how many of your friends could you have talked to about AS?

     How many radio talk shows could you have searched out via a google search? (And while you're at it, search both "how to get on radio talk shows" and "how to get your message across on a radio talk show" as well as "how to become a persuasive public speaker".)

     Then, after you're prepared, start calling them.

     Getting people to an Appleseed.

     You see this saying, time after time, on this site.

     That's what you can and should be doing - it's called, "bailing out the sinking ship" - the rest of this thread? It's simply "talk".

      Because, in this program, we already know the answer to "America's Fundamental Problem" - continuing to talk about it simply distracts us from the Mission - and from doing something to accomplish that Mission.

      Remember: One new recruit every twelve months, and we double this program. Anyone for tripling it?

I did not start this thread to distract us from the Appleseed mission but to ask if there was more we need to do along side the Appleseed project. Are there other things that need to be done along with the Appleseed project to save the country?

[MeanStreaker]

I did not start this thread to distract us from the Appleseed mission but to ask if there was more we need to do along side the Appleseed project. Are there other things that need to be done along with the Appleseed project to save the country?

That's an excellent question Garand and yes, there are other things our country needs apart from Appleseed's Mission.

But that stuff is Step 2.

Step 2 doesn't have a chance at being successful without Step 1 first being achieved - Waking up enough Americans so we're once again a Nation of Riflemen that know well what we're about.  

I don't exactly know what Step 2 looks like (although I have some ideas)... but I don't spend much time thinking about it as it's just an intellectual exercise and a waste of my time for now.  It's more important for me to spend my limited time and resources in winning hearts and minds to get them ready to imagine what Liberty should look like.

We lost our freedoms and Founding Principles a bite at a time over many generations and several generations.  That's the only way we're going to get them back.  Appleseed is about spoonfeeding blind infants.  After generations of bondage, they're not ready to crawl yet... let alone walk.  We'll worry about that later.

So we have to put all of our energy into Step 1.

[Pvt.Joker]

Recently, a very wise man, who is a published author with a doctorate in history, said to me "Once the people find out that they can vote themselves funds out of the public treasury, the republic is gone, and democracy is becoming socialism."

I aim to get him to a 'seed, and see if we can help him find hope, but I believe, historically speaking, he definitely has a point.

[Antibubba]

That's an excellent question Garand and yes, there are other things our country needs apart from Appleseed's Mission.

But that stuff is Step 2.

Step 2 doesn't have a chance at being successful without Step 1 first being achieved - Waking up enough Americans so we're once again a Nation of Riflemen that know well what we're about. 

If AS were strictly about teaching rifle use, then you'd be right.  But the 'seeds I've been to emphasize, along with the history and sacrifices made, the importance of becoming citizen activists too.  "Getting off the couch" means ending our national passivity on all fronts.  I'd rather have Americans who become active in saving the Republic but who never get on the firing line, than the other way around.

Fred, AS is an amazing vehicle for change.  In no way should it be the only one, and if folks here want to find complementary ways to support it, we should not be discouraged from doing so.

[Colcord]

An improvement many Americans may make is to follow the example set by the OP.
Shall we learn the truth by speaking of that which we know, or do not know, or by asking questions to learn truths undiscovered?
Shall not that which we do not question, continue to confound us?
Has not he that refuses to answer a question, revealed a truth by his wish to protect a mystery?
Cannot that which a human refuses you, be obtained by your own search?