Bragging Rights and 'the patch'

[PHenry]

Faitmaker,
I have a couple that work as helpers at one or two events per year. They are overwhelmed with kids, work and farming. They have one re-deeming facet, so far as the program is concerned - they ALWAYS work one or two events per year and encourage others to attend events all year long. They are golden to me. If I can get enough of them - I can build on it and make it work here in FL.

The cart is heavy and every bit of push makes a difference. If you strap enough toothpicks together, eventually you can build a house.

Do what you can and know that somewhere Lady Liberty feels just a little safer. 

Many thanks,
PH

[Faitmaker]

I get what you guys are saying, believe me I do, but I don't think it is right for you to tell someone what is and isn't.  If the patch means something to him, why discourage it?  Honestly, if it is truly just a piece of cloth that I shouldn't care about

It is just a piece of cloth, but the only currency you can spend to get one is sweat and sacrifice.  If patches were passed out like pamphlets anyone could get one and it would lose its significance.

I think you miss my fundamental point.  Some of us don't want to get into being an instructor or make Appleseed a lifestyle yet we keep coming for that patch.  YOU have decided that it is important to keep building on that or to go farther, for yourself.  To tell someone that the patch doesn't mean anything and is just a piece of cloth invalidates why some of us do the Appleseed.  I think you will end up turning people away rather than getting your desired effect.  If the patch doesn't have value, don't hype trying to earn the patch.  Get it?

Appleseed is not my "lifestyle" either, but I'm able to give it time and effort.  As I said earlier, I'm not an instructor--I haven't shot my 210.  I understand what the patch signifies--enough of a commitment to learn something that is neither natural nor easy to do--and if I was offered one for the work I do instead of by shooting, I'd turn it down.

From what I understood from your first post you shot Rifleman on your very first Appleseed.  That's amazing, but it may explain why the patch itself doesn't seem like a big deal.  FWIW, I sometimes think the emphasis on the first six steps obscures the Seventh Step, but I also understand that it works--it brings people into Appleseed.  The patch, and the rifle instruction that leads to it, are an irresistible draw, especially at the price it is offered.  If I told you from the outset that for $80 I can teach you how to care about the fate of America and what you can do to fix it, would you sign up?  I wouldn't!  But by the time you get that piece of cloth you've come to understand about bailing.  You've come to understand why we make no distinction between the 210 shooter and the 250 shooter.  It's why you get the same patch whether you've shot a 10/22 at 25 meters or a Garand at 400 yards.

FaitMaker, I hope you'll get involved.  You don't have to instruct; if you print up 50 fliers about your next local shoot and post them at the places you visit every day, you've done us a valuable service.  

You totally got my message wrong and confused it with the original poster.  I haven't shot rifleman at all, but I plan to come back until I do because it means something to me.  Personally, I *got* AS's message before I attended the first one.  I went to AS for the skills.  I post about AS quite a bit on my blog, wear my AS shirts every chance I get, including to work, posted an ungodly amount of fliers (just ask Hoover) and am bringing people to the shoots (7 this past weekend).  You don't have to convince me.  I'm in your corner.

Unfortunately, things I am seeing feels like an Amway meeting.  It doesn't feel like you are selling your product but instead trying to simply recruit more people to run the mammoth beast that is becoming Appleseed.  If I wasn't the person I am, I would have come to these forums to see what it is about and assumed that the only reason to attend an Appleseed is to become a volunteer for Appleseed.

So despite what any of you have said here, I have been "7th stepping" (now I feel like I'm at an AA meeting) and "bailing" long before I saw Massad's post about you guys.  And I haven't "earned" my patch and fully intend to because it means something to me despite what you say.  Just don't be surprised when someone becomes obsessed about getting one.  That's why I pay the money to attend, not to keep hearing the message that I already got.

[Antibubba]

As for now the best I can do to promote Appleseed is to print out flyers for the next event and leave them laying around at my gun club and a few other places.

Sweet!  But we really do mean it when we say that anything you do is fantastic.  If you get the word out to those who have never heard of us before, then you are doing them, us, and yourself a great service.  It's better than 99% of Americans.

You totally got my message wrong and confused it with the original poster.  I haven't shot rifleman at all,

Yup, I sure did. 

Unfortunately, things I am seeing feels like an Amway meeting.  It doesn't feel like you are selling your product but instead trying to simply recruit more people to run the mammoth beast that is becoming Appleseed.

      

I have to laugh at that, because it does seem like that sometimes.  Yeah, the machine does need to be stoked.  But for many of us, "proselytizing" might be more accurate.  I'm a devout "Americanist".  And the reason we push so much is that it seems like The End of Days.  To us, time is running out.

Just don't be surprised when someone becomes obsessed about getting one.  That's why I pay the money to attend, not to keep hearing the message that I already got.

And that is perfectly fine!  We appreciate your coming.  Just understand, you'll hear the message every time. 

[dwarven1]

It doesn't feel like you are selling your product but instead trying to simply recruit more people to run the mammoth beast that is becoming Appleseed.

Well... to an extent, that IS correct. My usual joke is to refer to it as the "Rifleman Ponzi Scheme". Yes, one point of Appleseed Shoots is to "train the trainer" because we NEED more people to get the message out - to wake up the sleeping Americans out there. A few hundred instructors aren't going to do it. We need to keep growing until Project Appleseed isn't needed any more - when the American people are paying attention to their government and being active participants in the Great Experiment rather than just sleeping their way through it.

[06en]

Well for me, it wasn't until after my second AS as a student that I was seeing the Orange hat as the goal and not so much the patch. This meant that I had to shoot like a rifleman. After 7.5 days of being a student, I shot my first Rifleman's score. The next 2 AQT's were rifleman scores with increasing scores.

IMHO an IBC, 1 AS as an IIT, and 3 more before the end of the year later, I do find that there is more work involved in being a Rifleman. With that said, I find it to be a very fulfilling and meaningfull endevor. And, with what little work that I have done, and will do before the end of this calander year, I am looking forward to doing so much more this next year.

I have to say that yes, the patch is a license to learn. I say let those who wish only to attain the patch do just that. That individual will have the bragging rights, which may, in the end challange others to try to get it. Then those individuals may be able to see past the patch and then be able to accomplish so much more for others than for themselves. If people see more can be done with that patch other than just shooting, then the better it is for all of the Union.

I see the patch as the "tree" and the Appleseed Mission as the "forrest". Sometimes folks are unable to see the later for the former.

[shaftoe]

I get what you guys are saying, believe me I do, but I don't think it is right for you to tell someone what is and isn't.  If the patch means something to him, why discourage it?  Honestly, if it is truly just a piece of cloth that I shouldn't care about

It is just a piece of cloth, but the only currency you can spend to get one is sweat and sacrifice.  If patches were passed out like pamphlets anyone could get one and it would lose its significance.

I think you miss my fundamental point.  Some of us don't want to get into being an instructor or make Appleseed a lifestyle yet we keep coming for that patch.  YOU have decided that it is important to keep building on that or to go farther, for yourself.  To tell someone that the patch doesn't mean anything and is just a piece of cloth invalidates why some of us do the Appleseed.  I think you will end up turning people away rather than getting your desired effect.  If the patch doesn't have value, don't hype trying to earn the patch.  Get it?

Appleseed is not my "lifestyle" either, but I'm able to give it time and effort.  As I said earlier, I'm not an instructor--I haven't shot my 210.  I understand what the patch signifies--enough of a commitment to learn something that is neither natural nor easy to do--and if I was offered one for the work I do instead of by shooting, I'd turn it down.

From what I understood from your first post you shot Rifleman on your very first Appleseed.  That's amazing, but it may explain why the patch itself doesn't seem like a big deal.  FWIW, I sometimes think the emphasis on the first six steps obscures the Seventh Step, but I also understand that it works--it brings people into Appleseed.  The patch, and the rifle instruction that leads to it, are an irresistible draw, especially at the price it is offered.  If I told you from the outset that for $80 I can teach you how to care about the fate of America and what you can do to fix it, would you sign up?  I wouldn't!  But by the time you get that piece of cloth you've come to understand about bailing.  You've come to understand why we make no distinction between the 210 shooter and the 250 shooter.  It's why you get the same patch whether you've shot a 10/22 at 25 meters or a Garand at 400 yards.

FaitMaker, I hope you'll get involved.  You don't have to instruct; if you print up 50 fliers about your next local shoot and post them at the places you visit every day, you've done us a valuable service.  

You totally got my message wrong and confused it with the original poster.  I haven't shot rifleman at all, but I plan to come back until I do because it means something to me.  Personally, I *got* AS's message before I attended the first one.  I went to AS for the skills.  I post about AS quite a bit on my blog, wear my AS shirts every chance I get, including to work, posted an ungodly amount of fliers (just ask Hoover) and am bringing people to the shoots (7 this past weekend).  You don't have to convince me.  I'm in your corner.

Unfortunately, things I am seeing feels like an Amway meeting.  It doesn't feel like you are selling your product but instead trying to simply recruit more people to run the mammoth beast that is becoming Appleseed.  If I wasn't the person I am, I would have come to these forums to see what it is about and assumed that the only reason to attend an Appleseed is to become a volunteer for Appleseed.

So despite what any of you have said here, I have been "7th stepping" (now I feel like I'm at an AA meeting) and "bailing" long before I saw Massad's post about you guys.  And I haven't "earned" my patch and fully intend to because it means something to me despite what you say.  Just don't be surprised when someone becomes obsessed about getting one.  That's why I pay the money to attend, not to keep hearing the message that I already got.

I understand the annoyance with people trying to recruit you.  People are trying to sell stuff to us all the time.  I hope you never feel that Appleseed is bait-and-switch. 

The Guy said something at my first Appleseed that has held with me and kept me awake at night:  "There is no greater tragedy than doing nothing for fear of doing too little."

This, to me, is the central point of Appleseed.  Learning to shoot expert is a valuable skill, it requires discipline, attention to detail, and perseverance.  It is a great analogy for being the kind of citizen that our country and society needs. 

I don't care if you become an instructor.  Sure, I love this program and we need all the help we can get.  But there are a lot of ways to fix the things that need fixing.  There are a lot of good causes; a lot of ways to fight the good fight.  I don't think anyone here sees you as less because you aren't volunteering for their cause.  They're more trying to relate why they took up the banner for Appleseed.  What else do you expect from a group of Appleseed volunteers?

To add my two cents about the patch: I sewed mine on my shooting jacket.  I have another one sitting in my desk, presumably for the day I replace my shooting jacket.  I don't wear the patch to brag or to show my rifle skills; if I'm wearing my shooting jacket, chances are that my rifle skills (or lack thereof) will be made apparent anyway. 

I see the patch as a symbol of a standard I want to hold myself to.  I earned the physical patch by shooting well, but the symbol isn't about having shot expert once.  It's about shooting expert, every time.  It's about doing good and honoring myself and upholding the burdens we must bear, every time.  It's a very personal desire to earn what the patch represents, every day. 

This is why we talk about the characteristics of a Rifleman at Appleseed shoots.  We talk about persistence, honor, courage, and moral responsibility.  These are not checkboxes on an exam, nor can you display them simply by the color of your hat.  They only come through in the actions you display, day after day.  No two of us will walk the same road.

I hope you earn the patch, both by shooting well and by knowing very well what you are about.  God speed.