ching slings

[Redchrome]

I was talking to Andy of Andy's Leather, and in the course of conversation he said that at some Appleseed events where shooters had rifles with Ching Slings, they were told by instructors to remove the Ching Sling and use a web sling instead.

For those not familiar with the Ching Sling, here is a brief overview.
http://www.shottist.com/ching.htm

Basically it offers you the speed of a hasty sling & the utility of a carry strap but almost as much support as a loop sling.

If the 3rd-hand reports are true; it sounds like a case of an AS instructor (or instructors) who is simply not familiar with the latest advances in field sling technology.

Once again we should keep in mind that AS is a project to teach people how to use their rifles; not just to cross some arbitrary line and make 'Rifleman' in our game. We have some good techniques to teach; but we should be wary of thinking we always have the best equipment for anything other than the particular variety of shooting that we do.

[ItsanSKS]

If the 3rd-hand reports are true; it sounds like a case of an AS instructor (or instructors) who is simply not familiar with the latest advances in field sling technology.

(emphasis mine)

I don't see anything that this sling does 'better' than the USGI web sling.  I fail to see how it 'advances' the field of sling technology in any meaningful way.  YMMV.  For $65, I'll take 5-6 USGI slings, thank you very much. 

I do not have any experience with this type of sling, so will not comment on its ability to solidify the prone or seated positions.  I have my concerns, such as the ability of the sling to stay high above the bicep during recoil, esp. in the prone position, and am not willing to shell out that amount of money for experimentation... "If it aint broke..."

I doubt that ANY instructor has REQUIRED a shooter to remove their 'ching' sling; as you astutely point out, we advise shooters to 'run what they brung'.  That does not mean that we do not advise them on how they might modify their rifle, to suit their needs.

I would hazard a guess that the student(s) in question were advised that a 'loop' sling might stabilize their position to a finer degree, and was therefore recommended; some shooters would take this as an affront to their 'obviously superior' thingamadoodle, and whine that they paid $65 for a sling and were told by that mean Instructor that it was garbage and should use a 12.50 POS instead....     

I have offered to loan shooters a USGI sling, in place of either no sling, or a sling that simply does not work as well as the USGI sling.  I have never degraded a shooters equipment, and have never demanded that they replace their 'inferior sling' for the superior 'loop' sling.  I have seen many folks shoot rifleman WITHOUT a sling at all, and even more that have done so with a hasty sling, so a loop sling is not REQUIRED to shoot rifleman.  Does it help?  Damn skippy, and thats why we teach it. 

[V]

first, ching slings are hardly new

second, I have the same frustration when I lend out 1907 equipped LTRs only to have some IIT swap them for a "real" sling...

third, the way I explain it to people is that if they will use a loop sling in the way we describe, we can "lock them into position" so that they can feel and develop the muscle memory of "what is right".  Once they get that, they can then go back to their hasty or whatever equipment and they will know when its not set right or working for them as it won't feel right. They now have the skill/muscle memory/knowledge to make anything work for them.

In this way I don't come across as telling them that the USGI or loop is better than their favorite, its just a tool to get them further down the road.

While I haven't actually shelled out and used a ching sling, I can see from the linked photos how it could be made to work but the model in those photos is definitely showing its weaknesses, the loop is down by his elbow not up on the bicep and there are no keepers to lock it there so it has all of the slip features of the hasty.

[Redchrome]

My understanding is that the Ching Sling only goes back a couple decades at most. So compared to the 1907 sling and the web sling it's 'new'.

I did emphasize that it's a field sling, not a target sling. It's not the best sling for our target shooting game; but the web sling isn't the best either. (If they were, the precision target shooters would be using them instead of things like this http://www.championshooters.com/store/product.php?productid=264&cat=248&page=1). It's designed to be far better than a hasty sling, and far faster than a loop sling. I can get into a M1907 sling in under 15 seconds even with fumbling; but it's still way to slow for anything in the field other than well-prepared deliberate fire. Yes, it is not as secure as a looped sling (of any variety) but one can get into it just as fast as a hasty sling.

I do also suspect that the story has grown a bit in the retelling; and what may have been a polite suggestion to try a web sling was turned into an indictment of the ching sling.

So this post was mostly intended as an FYI for those not familiar with this type of sling, and a reminder to be sensitive about the shooters' gear.

V, I can understand the frustration with shooters not understanding the 1907 sling.  It definitely has a higher and longer learning curve than the web sling. I can teach the use of it in about half an hour to most students (tho yesterday I had one that only needed about 5 minutes); but that's still longer than the 5-10 minutes or so it takes to explain the use of the web sling. Once you get up that curve tho, I believe it's a better design for many purposes.

[smithy]

I knew about "ching" slings for some time now. Was not impressed by it, but during last "porcfest" in Lancaster had a chance to visit Andy's bench. Tried one, transitioned to seated and prone with it and bought one for myself.
Here is my opinion (after shooting about 100 rounds with my M1A.
Sling simulates hasty and loop. It is something in-between. As I consider hasty the best for standing "ching" is second best (better than loop) and as fast to sling up us hasty. If you carry (like when hunting), one can sling up while taking rifle from the back (hasty) - Redchrome showed once the technique. I did not figured out yet how to do this with "ching".
When slinged up while standing, it will not slide down when transiting to other positions. I tried without Fred's shooting jacket. With the shooting jacket it will stay even better - like welded in place.
Seated and prone "ching" feels almost like loop without cutting your arm. One can stay in position for unlimited time without any discomfort. It is not exactly the same as loop but you can easy get used to. No compromising stability.
What to watch for: "ching requires extra mounting stud and sling loop in the middle. To avoid canting the rifle in seated position, mount the stud on the side of forehand (support hand side).
In my opinion one can find compromises with hasty, loop and carry functions, but all-around it is the best sling to have, unless you use rifle for very specific task of target shooting only and only in one position.
Just my $.02
Tony