KD Case/Mat

[Topgear]

I'm signed up for my first KD event in Racine, WI next month.  It shows we'll be on Range 7.  From what I've seen that's a 600+ yard range.  I think targets are posted at full distance and then the firing line moves to each distance.  That would mean moving gear frequently.  Any reason I shouldn't use my case/mat combo?  I've used it in the past at regular Appleseed events, just not sure if it would create a logistical nightmare with the frequent movement?  It's not this exact case, but it's build the same way.  I could even mark arrows on the outside to designate the muzzle direction? Just trying to simplify a bit versus hauling a rifle case and my Midway mat around.

https://byallen.com/products/ruger-tactical-case-with-shooting-mat-by-allen-black?srsltid=AU7gw4XxiC8thxibuCQrYct_rnXLpZEUmEIPJwfKC9wpfhbIrpYSHmi3

[12 Gage]

I'd probably stick with a separate rifle case and shooting mat. The manual repeatedly emphasizes packing light because you may be moving between firing lines throughout the day. That case/mat weighs 6.6 pounds empty, which is quite a bit heavier than a typical lightweight mat.

The bigger issue may be the time involved. Every move could mean folding everything back together, possibly casing the rifle, carrying it to the next line, and then unfolding and setting it all up again. A regular mat can simply be picked up, carried forward and dropped at the next position. The rifle case can remain behind the equipment line unless the Shoot Boss requires rifles to be cased during movement.

Since the entire firing line generally moves together, taking extra time to pack and unpack could also hold up the other students. The combination would certainly work, but after several moves I think the additional weight and setup time would be more trouble than the convenience is worth.

[Gus]

Topgear,

Much of what you ask about is written about in the link below.

Please give it a read.

In the end, you'll want to move like a Rifleman!

Gus


https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=70155.0

[Topgear]

Topgear,

Much of what you ask about is written about in the link below.

Please give it a read.

In the end, you'll want to move like a Rifleman!

Gus


https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=70155.0

Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but that link doesn't seem to work for me. 

Kent

[Topgear]

Also, a detail maybe I'm not clear on. Do we have to case the rifle to move between firing line positions?  I was assuming that we would need to, but perhaps we're just making the rifle safe and carrying them vertically to the next firing line? 

[Maximum Ordinate]

Topgear,

Much of what you ask about is written about in the link below.

Please give it a read.

In the end, you'll want to move like a Rifleman!

Gus


https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=70155.0

Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but that link doesn't seem to work for me. 

Kent

You're not doing anything wrong, sir.  That link is to an instructor-only area.

[12 Gage]

The KD Manual gives the Shoot Boss two permitted options when moving the firing line:

• Case the rifles before moving.
• Move them uncased with the muzzles straight up.

I really doubt too many are choosing the first option unless the range requires it.

[TheMenace]

Hi Kent,
You'll need to follow your Shootbosses direction. Likely you will receive a welcome letter with details. At my shoots I ask the shooters to travel light. Sling the rifle and carry a small pack with just enough ammo, mags, water, PFAK, and snack. The mat can be left at the 400 yard line. That's what "move like a Rifleman" means!

[Mahamotorworks]

I am not 100% sure if this is the same range you will be on, but here is the After Action from a KD in Racine. You can see what others have and the range in the photos.

https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=71237.0

Keep the bag and shooting mat separate. Bring a small bag, or 2 gallon bucket that is big enough to hold your magazines, water bottle, notepad and pen and 100 rounds of ammo.

Leave all the extra stuff at the 400 yard line and restock when you are there.

MAHA

[Topgear]

Yeah, I was thinking the case was likely required to move. Sounds like that probably isn't the case. I'll work under that premise. After all, that was my goal, carry less stuff. Thank you all.

Kent

[Aliquippa]

Hi, When I do a KD I use a stripped down baby stroller and carry all the stuff I need in it. The rifle is standing up and the other accoutrements (mags, ammo, drinks snacks, etc...) can be in a small packsack or any way you want to carry. those rolling strollers have large wheels so are better for rougher terrain. You can find them being given away on buy nothing sites. AIO!

[Ironmike]

Topgear/Kent,

First off, thank you for your awesome question! If one person speaks it; one hundred are thinking it! I am the S.B for the event.

Quick answer; we move without cases and muzzles up. We have an unbelievably impressive and effective growth pattern in the KD discipline that incorporates two distinct variations in the SOP. All information that will be needed will be included in the email that goes out to attendees prior to the event.

Know your rifle and sights, make sure you have a recorded zero on that system, GI web sling with proper attachment as learned at a 25m event, a good forward bag or stable rest, and follow the websites advice. You shouldn't have to "run out" and buy anything at the last minute.

You should see your welcome email in about a week and a half.  

Looking forward to seeing you.
Ironmike

[Topgear]

Know your rifle and sights, make sure you have a recorded zero on that system, GI web sling with proper attachment as learned at a 25m event, a good forward bag or stable rest, and follow the websites advice. You shouldn't have to "run out" and buy anything at the last minute.

Thank you, Ironmike!  I've done 5 or so of the regular events so far, looking forward to finally getting to test at distance.  When you mention forward bag or stable rest, is a bipod an option there?  I'm assuming this is for the portion of getting good zero?  I'm taking my primary rifle and backup rifle to my buddy's range in a couple weeks to verify my 100yd zero on both, chrono data for my ammo, and verify drop data at 400yd. 

Kent

[DEH]

You may want to consider not using a mat at all.  A thick long sleeved shirt, shooting jacket or something similar can be your mat.  I would still bring it, just in case the terrain at the range isn't suitable or it rains and turns the range into mud.

I wear my shooting jacket or a combat shirt (non camo). Both have elbow protection built in. Couple that with a small backpack or satchel and you can move like a Rifleman.

[Topgear]

You may want to consider not using a mat at all.  A thick long sleeved shirt, shooting jacket or something similar can be your mat.  I would still bring it, just in case the terrain at the range isn't suitable or it rains and turns the range into mud.

I wear my shooting jacket or a combat shirt (non camo). Both have elbow protection built in. Couple that with a small backpack or satchel and you can move like a Rifleman.

Yes, I like this concept and I have a MidwayUSA packable shooting mat that's 1.5lb.  That will keep me out of the elements if it's crappy weather.  If it's dry, just run without. October will likely require a couple of layers, especially near the lake, so built in padding.  Appreciate the input.  Pounds = Pain

[DEH]

You may want to consider not using a mat at all.  A thick long sleeved shirt, shooting jacket or something similar can be your mat.  I would still bring it, just in case the terrain at the range isn't suitable or it rains and turns the range into mud.

I wear my shooting jacket or a combat shirt (non camo). Both have elbow protection built in. Couple that with a small backpack or satchel and you can move like a Rifleman.

Yes, I like this concept and I have a MidwayUSA packable shooting mat that's 1.5lb.  That will keep me out of the elements if it's crappy weather.  If it's dry, just run without. October will likely require a couple of layers, especially near the lake, so built in padding.  Appreciate the input.  Pounds = Pain

Also think about that the more stuff that you have to deal with, the less time you will have to focus on your marksmanship. 

[ShooterMagoo]

You may want to consider not using a mat at all.  A thick long sleeved shirt, shooting jacket or something similar can be your mat.  I would still bring it, just in case the terrain at the range isn't suitable or it rains and turns the range into mud.

I wear my shooting jacket or a combat shirt (non camo). Both have elbow protection built in. Couple that with a small backpack or satchel and you can move like a Rifleman.

This is a great suggestion. I like the mat between myself and concrete, otherwise it's mainly to ward off stickers and bugs, and the hassle of lugging it around seems barely worth it. I already need elbow pads, so it doesn't really add value on that front.

I have a KD coming up in October too. I'll bring my mat along, but I'm going to try things out without it.

[Fulcrum]

I like this idea of "move like a rifleman." I've only ever been to one RKD, and we moved the targets after each stage, so everything stayed at the line. The nice thing was the line had shade and other nice amenities. But I think it would be fun to put on some suitable clothes for shooting on the ground, carry the rifle, mags, ammo, and supplies, and shoot the closer stages without a mat.

[Gus]

Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but that link doesn't seem to work for me. 

Kent

You're not doing anything wrong, sir.  That link is to an instructor-only area.

Topgear,

Sorry about giving you a link to an instructor only area.

There are certainly a lot of opinions about what to bring to a KD. Personally, I bring what I think I might need, then once I'm at the range, I figure it out from there as to what I take with me when It's a moving firing line.  Here's what I wrote in that instructors only link:
Great question.  As for gear, I think it depends on the range, and the time of year. I've shot a few KDs now in the cold, wind, rain, heat, etc.  Here's my list:

Shooting mat
Elbow pad
Ammo (120 rounds)
3 magazines
2 chamber flags
Sling
Rifle
Hat
Eye & Ear pro (a couple packets of the foam ear plugs)
A small flat blade screwdriver
Small towel (to cover rifle action)
DOPE book
Shooting glove (mine is a thick padded work glove)
Two or three sharpies
Two or three pens/pencils
Bottle of water
Cell phone
A few cough drops
Stapler & Staples

Most of my list needs no explanation, but I do want to talk a bit about the mat.

Depending on what you'll be sitting or lying on you may or may not need it. At Ft Bliss, TX in Feb '24, I didn't need it while we were moving about. We left the mats at the 400 yard line. At Ft Bliss the range is flat and rather hard packed sand/dirt. At that shoot I managed to forget my elbow pad so I used my small towel (gun rag really) as an improvised support side elbow pad. On the other hand, at New Braunfels, TX a mat is a definite must! Why? Because of the billions of nasty little ground thorns called 'goatheads'. Sit or lie on them once and you won't do it again. In Alaska at Upper Susitna (Talkeetna) I say a mat is a must because during the summer you will be shooting in the rocks and mud.

Others responding to this topic talk about good footwear: Solid advice! Good boots are a must.

I carry the small stuff in a canvas tool tote that I bought at Walmart. I have attached a picture of it. They cost $26. Try not to overload it with 'stuff'. It's a temptation to put something in every little pocket. MO and  Scuba Steve both use the term 'move like a Rifleman'. I like the sound of that and will shamelessly add it to my Appleseed vocabulary.  Less is more, but you need what you need.



Good luck with your KD! They're a hoot. If it's windy, they're even more fun as you deal with your wind calls.

Gus

[ShooterMagoo]

I'd forgotten about having something to put over the rifle during breaks, which is a very real duty my mat has performed. Sitting in Texas sun can make the thing hotter than I've ever gotten it just by shooting.

[Dmthomp32]

At the rimfire KD I attended I took a couple of extra blankets. I kept my shooting mat at 200, put a blanket at 150 and one at 100. Sort of marked my spaces, kept me off the ground and gave me a place to cover my rifle/mags in the sun. I just left them out on the range as we moved back and forth between 50-200. Worked fine, ultimately probably didn't need them due to nice weather but you never know!

[ShooterMagoo]

At the rimfire KD I attended I took a couple of extra blankets. I kept my shooting mat at 200, put a blanket at 150 and one at 100. Sort of marked my spaces, kept me off the ground and gave me a place to cover my rifle/mags in the sun. I just left them out on the range as we moved back and forth between 50-200. Worked fine, ultimately probably didn't need them due to nice weather but you never know!

I'll stick a pocket picnic blanket in my ammo bag. At the KD's I've attended we've generally only left rifles laying out for lunch breaks. If I need to wrap it once or twice the blanket should be pretty easy to stow & un-stow.

[Topgear]

Appreciate all the insight and ideas so far, guys.  Thank you!  I think I have a system sorted.  Ultra light shooting mat from MidwayUSA will be along if it's messy or for covering the rifle in the weather.  I have a small enough pack to haul up and down the range with just the essentials.  I normally use a large contractor soft toolbag for range duty.  That can sit back at the 400 line for resupply when/if needed. 

[icecoldkidd]

TopGear,

I attended my first KD round about February this year at the Racine, WI location. I see that the ShootBoss has already responded but I will give you my take.

First, yes, you will be moving from distance to distance at the course. I would check the weather. February was around 30 degrees and had an unscheduled white out happen during the event. Chances are you are not going to have that difficulty.

The 100 yard line where you start shooting and spend a decent amount of time is grass. Having a mat there to start is potentially helpful but not necessarily needed.

The 200 yard line is a cement slab. IMO you want a mat or padding to stay at the 200 yard line without a doubt.

The 300 and 400 yard lines are grass, again, mat optional.

The answer you are looking for is 1) how quickly can you fold up your mat to move from station to station 2) how much folding and unfolding do you want to do.

As the shootboss said, the command given is: with safeties on, stand with rifles pointed straight up, and as a group in formation all shooters move parade style from distance to distance. (or there abouts as correct as I can describe the action)

as asked before, how quickly can you get your gear to not hold up the other shooters.

I hope this helps, and you will figure out for yourself, what will work for your needs at the event.

[Topgear]

TopGear,

I attended my first KD round about February this year at the Racine, WI location. I see that the ShootBoss has already responded but I will give you my take.

I hope this helps, and you will figure out for yourself, what will work for your needs at the event.

Appreciate the thoughts and insight from an attendee at the actual location.  I think I'll have my system down and light. Thanks again!

[icecoldkidd]

https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=71237.0

there are pictures from February for you to get a brief lay of the land.

There is a bit of raised land at the 100 yard distance. you can see the cement patch from the seated pictures.

Can you move your mat from distance to distance - many did.

Be Prepared to Patrol Your Brass.