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M1A sight question

Started by Texas EMT, March 03, 2009, 11:55:55 AM

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Texas EMT

March 03, 2009, 11:55:55 AM
I recently picked up a very lightly used National Match M1A (Fulton Armory, Armscorp reciever, USGI parts)   I took it out yesterday to check the zero...with the rear sight all the way down, it is hitting about 2 inches high at 25 meters.  The only thing I can think of is that I need a taller front sight, is such a thing available?  The rear is marked N.M.  but the front is not. 

Any ideas?

Thanks!


Lee

Old Dog

#1
March 03, 2009, 01:10:34 PM
If you can find a front sight off a Chinese made PolyTech M14S (another M1A clone) they have a much taller front sight post.  I'm not real experienced with NM sights but my one experience is that on my M1 Garand the NM front sight post was slightly shorter than the GI front sight, so I went back to the GI front sight as I had the same issue at 25 meters.

If your rifle is a NM rifle the rear sight base and aperature should be made/modified for correct operation.  Is the rear sight hood touching the rear sight base?  If not, and the aperature is down as far as it will go you might be able to get some extra downward movement by removing the aperature and filing, or lightly grinding (lightly meaning dremel tool type lightly grinding) a small amount of material off the front/bottom of the aperature.  It may be bottoming out and making contact with the receiver under that spring cover (in front of the sight) before the hood actually makes contact with the rear sight base.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

wcmartin1

#2
March 03, 2009, 01:42:29 PM
From the Fulton Armory website http://www.fulton-armory.com/ under >M14 [& M1A] Pages>M14 & M1A Parts & etc.>

Scroll down until you find the part labeled Front Sight, NM, Forged, Milled, Not Cast Repro and click on it which will take you to fitting/installation instructions.  Here's an excerpt that may be part of your problem:

2. FITTING THE NM REAR SIGHT APERTURE

A. Using a fine file, modify the underside and end of the aperture as shown, so that the aperture will not bottom out in the rear sight receiver well.


"Unhappy it is, though, to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast and that the once-happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by a race of slaves.  Sad alternative!  But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?" - George Washington - from a letter to a close friend after the events of April 19, 1775

"There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our (the United States) overthrow.  Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter.  From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger.  I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing." - Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

Texas EMT

#3
March 03, 2009, 04:41:45 PM
Thanks, Guys!

The rear sight ramp was not filed off as shown in Bill's post.  A little dremel work fixed it right up.

It is now dead on at 25 meters, with the rear aperature all the way down, right on the money at 250 meters as well (M80 ball).  This puts it about 2.5 inches high at 100 meters. Is it normal to not be able to crank in a 100 meter zero with this rifle?  Or, do I still need a taller front sight? This is the first M14/M1A I have ever used. 

Old Dog

#4
March 03, 2009, 04:58:21 PM
I wouldn't say its "normal".  I have some that do and some that don't.  Sometimes it's not the sights, its the way the receiver fits in the stock or the way the gas system and front of the stock mate up.

However, if you're dead on at 25 meters your set up for 250 yds.  Same point of aim, same point of impact (or most of the time anyway - you should check yours just to be sure).
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

sespe

#5
March 27, 2009, 09:10:04 PM
Mine is the same way.  From conversations on other boards I am told I should contact Springfield customer support for a taller front sight post.  Supposed to be a common problem with NM sights.
I appeal to you again to constantly bear in mind that with you, and not with politicians, not with Presidents, not with office-seekers, but with you, is the question, "Shall the Union and shall the liberties of this country be preserved to the latest generation?"  -Abraham Lincoln

Fred

#6
March 28, 2009, 01:45:19 AM

   What a bunch of fussin' over nothing, guys - why the H would you want a "100-yard zero"? Whatever for?

   A 275/300 zero is all you need - now, and forever. Anything at a lesser range you, as a rifleman, simply aim and fire.

   Of course, you need a 25m zero, if you want to shoot at 25 - which translates to a 200 yard zero.

   But a 100 yd zero? I mean, what would you do with a 100 yd zero? Shoot at 100 yards? Why would you want to shoot at 100 yards? Either 25 m for training/learning the skill, or 300 zero for anything out to 300 yards...

    It's part of learning to be a rifleman to know what is important and what is not - and to not worry about the latter. ;)

      @)
"Ready to eat dirt and sweat bore solvent?" - Ask me how to become an RWVA volunteer!

      "...but he that stands it now, deserves the thanks of man and woman alike..."   Paine

     "If you can read this without a silly British accent, thank a Revolutionary War veteran" - Anon.

     "We have it in our power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine

     What about it, do-nothings? You heard the man, jump on in...

wcmartin1

#7
March 28, 2009, 02:27:18 PM
Quote from: Texas EMT on March 03, 2009, 04:41:45 PM
Thanks, Guys!

The rear sight ramp was not filed off as shown in Bill's post.  A little dremel work fixed it right up.

It is now dead on at 25 meters, with the rear aperature all the way down, right on the money at 250 meters as well (M80 ball).  This puts it about 2.5 inches high at 100 meters. Is it normal to not be able to crank in a 100 meter zero with this rifle?  Or, do I still need a taller front sight? This is the first M14/M1A I have ever used. 
Quote from: Fred on March 28, 2009, 01:45:19 AM

   What a bunch of fussin' over nothing, guys - why the H would you want a "100-yard zero"? Whatever for?

   A 275/300 zero is all you need - now, and forever. Anything at a lesser range you, as a rifleman, simply aim and fire.

   Of course, you need a 25m zero, if you want to shoot at 25 - which translates to a 200 yard zero.

   But a 100 yd zero? I mean, what would you do with a 100 yd zero? Shoot at 100 yards? Why would you want to shoot at 100 yards? Either 25 m for training/learning the skill, or 300 zero for anything out to 300 yards...

    It's part of learning to be a rifleman to know what is important and what is not - and to not worry about the latter. ;)

      @)

Fred,

Exactly what I was thinkin' when the OP's sight was fixed for 25.

I think you might remember this guy shooting in Midland at the full distance AQT and having several malfs on the final string with another rifle.  >:(

It appears he has acquired a better tool since then.  :~
"Unhappy it is, though, to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast and that the once-happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by a race of slaves.  Sad alternative!  But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?" - George Washington - from a letter to a close friend after the events of April 19, 1775

"There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our (the United States) overthrow.  Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter.  From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger.  I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing." - Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

ashrn03

#8
March 28, 2009, 07:57:27 PM
Quote from: sespe on March 27, 2009, 09:10:04 PM
Mine is the same way.  From conversations on other boards I am told I should contact Springfield customer support for a taller front sight post.  Supposed to be a common problem with NM sights.

I suspect it's a common "problem" ( ::)) because the shortest full-sized target National Match distance is 200 yards (right where the lowest zero is?).  There should be adequate adjustment to shoot reduced NM targets at 100 yards using a 6:00 hold.  But unless you can't shoot further than 100 yards, (as Fred says) this doesn't seem to be a major difficulty worth spending any time over.     
The way to herd cats is to offer treats

Texas EMT

#9
March 29, 2009, 12:02:00 PM
Hey!  I'm a retired engineer....I can't help it  ;D  I aint happy unless I'm tinkering with something.

I did get a new front sight, the narrower blade NM sight, it happens to be .010 higher than the old one.  Been waiting for the weather to clear up a bit to give it a go.

See y'all April 18th and 19th!

Lee

wcmartin1

#10
March 29, 2009, 01:17:24 PM Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 01:19:29 PM by wcmartin1
HP match at MSA next Saturday, Lee.  Come try it out then.

If not, see you in April, Sir.
"Unhappy it is, though, to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast and that the once-happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by a race of slaves.  Sad alternative!  But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?" - George Washington - from a letter to a close friend after the events of April 19, 1775

"There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our (the United States) overthrow.  Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter.  From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger.  I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing." - Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

Texas EMT

#11
March 29, 2009, 02:07:20 PM
I would love to, Bill.

Unfortunately, I have Fire Department training, in Ft. Stockton, next weekend; then I have to go to Dallas on business.

Never enough "range time", even though I have my own behind my barn!

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