Shooting in Significant Wind

[navybowhunter]

Shot the 2017 National CMP Rimfire Sporter match last weekend.  I have never shot in such windy conditions.  It was brutal.  I felt the rifle moving from wind in slow prone!  Seated it was actually moving me some.

In seated and standing, I really had to pull the rifle back HARD into my shoulder.  This was a first for me, typically I hold the rifle back hard, but this time it was significantly harder due to the wind.  It was a tradeoff, as the muscles will start to give out when holding that hard.   I'm happy with my standing scores but it was a lot of work.

So, maybe if you all get the opportunity to shoot in windy conditions like that I'd recommend you take full advantage of that.  It was a first for me.  I'd estimate it was 1/2 - 3/4 value wind coming from right to left, steady at 25 gusting well over 35.

My first sighters were left in the 9 ring.  I had to add 5 clicks right for wind.  At 50 yards!!  Never would I have thought wind would have that effect on a .22 at that distance, but it does.  My standing targets, I should have taken 2-3 clicks off, but I neglected to remember to do that.  Standing is shot at 25 yards. 

This was the first match I shot at Perry (Sporter wise) and they issued no scorecards.  I guess the CMP felt they were saving time, by having the competitors pull all 6 targets and turning them into CMP staff for scoring.  I did take pictures of my targets, and asked some friends on Facebook to score them for me, they came up with 559-15X.  CMP came up with 548-15X, a big difference.  They missed an obvious "double" on one of my targets and scored one of my shots a miss.

I emailed CMP about this this morning, and also called and spoke with them.  Luckily, they did save the targets, so hopefully they agree that there was a scoring error and mail me my bronze medal, the double is quite obvious.

Was a lot of fun though shooting in those conditions.  Ran into a few Appleseeders as well.  Highly recommend these Sporter matches.

R/
Chris

[cwcdl79]

Chris,
What is the size of the targets/black? trying to gauge 9 ring and 5 clicks (assuming 1/4moa clicks). I know SR-1 it's 3MOA from x to far edge of the 9.

[navybowhunter]

CWCDL79,

No idea, I should probably look into that.  I don't even know what the clicks on my optic = in MOA.  I am assuming that it is 1/2, but I am not sure.

Since I only shoot that rifle in Sporter matches, and we get 5 minutes for unlimited sighters, I never have worried about it.  In fact, I have only shot 4 sporter matches total, and the previous 3 all were shot with a no wind zero.

So, you can look up the sporter target dimensions on line, or....when I get off work I will measure it myself and post in here.

For Service Rifle across the course and for 200 yard Garand type matches, the 10 ring is typically 2 MOA and the X ring is 1 MOA.  My data book has the target grids, so it is easy to adjust for those. 

I just guessed with the wind doping for the sporter rifle.  Shot 3 rounds the were left 9 ring, added 3 clicks right, was still a little left.  2 more clicks right was the key at 50 yards.  I probably could have made some of the 9's in standing 10's had I taken off 2 - 3 clicks when we moved up to the 25 yard line.

R/
Chris

[navybowhunter]

CWCDL79,

FiremanBob has a thread in the VA group about an upcoming Sporter event.  This is a cut/paste he put in that thread on the target dimensions:

"Want to test your Appleseed marksmanship skills in competition? This is a great way to do it. There are six stages: slow-fire and rapid-fire in prone, seated and standing. The 10-ring on the target is 1.75" wide, or 3.5 MOA at 50 yards. If you put all your shots in the black square on the AS squares target, you'll do great."

So, 10 ring is 3.5MOA at 50 yards, I am assuming this is inclusive of the X ring.

I'll measure and post up what the actual MOA is out to the 9 ring at both 50 yards and 25.

I think my optic is 1/2 MOA per click, will verify that was well.  So, if it is 1/2MOA per, that was 2.5 MOA of wind I had to dope.  That is a LOT of wind at 50 yards!  LOL

R/
Chris

[navybowhunter]

So, Dom asked about target dimensions and my scopes clicks.  Figured it out at lunchtime.

My optic is a 1/4 Min per click, so I had 1.25 MOA right wind on.

Here are the pics of target with a tape measure near it. 

The Aiming Black is 7 1/8 inches wide inclusive of the 10/X ring

The 10/X ring is 3.5 MOA (ish) at 50 yards

[cwcdl79]

looks like (eyeballing it) 5 clicks would JUST bring you into the 10. maybe 8 into the x-ring. but that would also factor in gusting wind/vs steady... and when you moved up to 25 yds that would mess you up too. good enough for Bronze I'd say.

[colonial shooter]

quote So, maybe if you all get the opportunity to shoot in windy conditions like that I'd recommend you take full advantage of that.  It was a first for me.  I'd estimate it was 1/2 - 3/4 value wind coming from right to left, steady at 25 gusting well over 35. quote

Not to burst your bubble, but these numbers are a slight breeze here in the west. Any time you arre in WY let me know and we will show you what wind is like.

[navybowhunter]

Not bursting my bubble, I just have not shot a rimfire in those conditions.

I have a wind post in here (in this skill sets of shooting thread) referencing HP shooting, with pics of my data book pages.  Never have I had more than 1 MOA on at 600 yards.

1.25 MOA of wind at 50 yards was significant for me and I bet for most of the people shooting the National Match.

Record was set last year for T Class with a 599.  The highest score this match was a 586!  It was BRUTAL conditions, targets flying off the frames bad.  All scores suffered because of the wind.

Here is a link to the match results, if interested.  ALL scores suffered.
https://ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.php?do=match&task=edit&tab=results&match=15035

[Birdman]

Nice to meet you Navybowhunter, and YES, the wind was THE worst we have ever shot in at Nationals, and we have gone about 8 years now. 2/3 of the firing line canopies were blown down early Saturday morning, the scoring tent was almost flattened.
There was ONE gold medal for all classes. I was lucky to get two bronze. Our young Rifleman Brianna also got two bronze, and a nice plaque for High Woman in Tactical Class. She took second place Junior, Tactical Class, losing to a long time excellent shooting young man. (That would have been another plaque had she won that). Brianna also took #3 junior T-class, and #21 overall T-class. Brianna shot 5 Rifleman AQT's, high of 231, at Salem, OH in 2014, at her first Appleseed event. I think her low was 220.
We had a great time. Lunch was the best so far, and a T-shirt also. Can't beat it!
Ready for next year!

[Miki]

Navy,

Wish I'd known you were going to be there. Would have been nice to meet you in person.

The conditions were brutal. As you stated. What I learned, (always good to learn something) is, I need to practice standing rapid with more than one hold. I usually use a reverse support hand position. In that wind I could not keep the rifle secure and work the bolt. YIKES! Not the best to change your grip after the first round. But, best to be safe.

The good news is, according to my calculations, the cut scores should go down about 20 points for next year. The bad news is, and I'm sorry to always be the one bursting your bubble, 562 is the cut for bronze in tactical and T class. I assume you were shooting one of those as you mentioned a scope.

In case you are not aware, you can pick up your targets and challenge scores after the match. The targets were outside building 3. And they do make mistakes that they will happily correct. One year they missed a double of mine. Another year I had an awesome group and they gave me credit for an extra X when I actually had a saved round. Dropped me from gold to silver. But, I don't want something I didn't earn.

Miki

[Birdman]

Sorry I missed you there, Miki....

[Jerry Hall]

Howdy All,
Jerry Hall here. Should anyone end up in El Paso, Texas, for any reason, Feel free to contact me and we can go to the Fort Bliss Rod and Gun Club. Range 5 has relatively fun winds all day every day(changing speeds and directions, whirling and Switching 3 times in the time it takes for 1 Shot). Also the wind will push your human around in all positions.
I have found that it is sometimes best to setup my NPOA into the wind, where the wind will blow me back onto my target...
Again everybody's welcome.
Happy Trails,
Jerry

[navybowhunter]

Birdman was good to see you!  Miki, next year!

As stated, and I am glad Miki and Birdman are corroborating, the WIND WAS BRUTAL!!

LOL

Bronze cut in T class is 559.  I missed by 1 point.  I am challenging/protesting with the CMP now about that 1 point.  Second challenge.  First one was for a shot marked as a miss that was clearly a double.  They corrected that. 

The one point I am challenging, is a line cutter on the 10 ring.  BUT it may not make it.  I am being told that depends on the tear, axial versus radial. 

As Miki said, who wants a "freebie".  But I will take it if they give it to me.

As a dear friend of mine told me yesterday, gotta make every shot count!  1 freaking point shy!

Oh well....back to my primary goal, Distinguished Rifle badge.  2 more EIC matches left for me this year, gonna make those count.

R/
Chris

[navybowhunter]

Here is a pic of the target I am asking for a look on.  After consulting with several NRA High Masters, and learning WAYYYY more I needed to learn about challenges and shots on the line, the verdict will likely be it is a 9.

So close!  LOL

The tear makes a difference, axial versus radial.  Also, if using an overlay, it will likely not cut the 10.  I am not sure, do not have the target in front of me, all I have is this picture.

[navybowhunter]

Miki made a point of practicing standing with different holds.  As I think back to the match, I swapped my standing hold 3 different times.

Stands with FIST under mag well is my primary hold with this rifle.  It was not stable.
Stands with V reversed, Thumb to side of ejection port was a little more steady.

Stands with V with 4 fingers at the ejection port was the most stable...BUT, it caused me a few issues in slow fire, where the fingers hit/slowed the bolt travel and caused a stovepipe twice.  For Rapid standing I went back to the Reversed V (thumb on ejection port side).

It seemed to work.  Standing scores were OK for those conditions.  Low 90s.

My seated is what ate my lunch, as the stock is a little short for me, and I was getting blown around.  Was definitely muscling the rifle in seated.

All good stuff, as if I did not shoot in those conditions, I would not have learned all the above.

R/
Chris

[Mark Davis]

That's very good shooting. With or without the next point and medal. 
Getting to shoot in the wind is not all that uncommon around here.
it's all good, at least until you get globs of mud on your sights!

[navybowhunter]

I'll add that Miki has corrected me yet again, on this sporter match stuff!  Ughhh!

So, several documents out there from the CMP, the last one I looked at stated that 559 was the Bronze cut, it is not.  What happens is every year they adjust the cut for achievement medals, based upon scoring at the previous National match. 

So...., when the new cuts get posted, just about any Appleseed Rifleman will earn a medal if they shoot this sport.

Cause the cut will drop significantly due to the conditions at Perry this year.

My line cutter 10 protest is no longer an issue.

Gotta fix my seated!  LOL

Stock length research time.