I cringe in posting this.....

[ax238]

Please don't yell...


      I really have not had anyone show me in person, and at my first Appleseed (Wabash) we didnt go through this paramount issue for a rifleman.  ( i know it was assumed we already had them zeroed-- this is my fault) I will be thankful when i get the LTR ready so I can just walk down the road and shoot, instead of shooting twice a month.  The closest range for me is 53 miles away.  literally, well one that is not club owned.   I don't GET to practise other than dry firing, so a >22LR will be wonderful. 

     I am getting better and better groups.  BUT, I must confess, the whole sight in thing is fuzzy to me.  (please don't yell at me!)  I need someone to really get nitty gritty and spread it out on the table for me please.  I shoot a Loaded M1A, I sling up well, go through the numbers and get NPOA etc.  I need to know the clicks on the standard peep sight,  come-ups and battle zero in new-layman-rifleman terms.  what is the 12 clicks

Ax

[Old Dog]

This is in section 7 of this post -  http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=92.0 - right here on this forum.  Sometimes info is hard to find.  You'll find out the more time you spend looking around the easier it'll be to remember where you saw some good info.  I'd suggest after you read this go ahead and use the above link to go read all of it.  Have a good day.

Now, let's apply that ratio to some shooting situations. We'll start at 25M (which is actually 27.32 yards, or 82 feet - we're talking close enough for Government work, as the saying goes), and have you fire three good shots at your 1" black square.

You go downrange, check the target, and find that the center of your group is 1 inch below the aiming point, and ½ inch to the left of the aiming point.

First step is to ask yourself if you fired good shots. If not, your group is of no use to you, so go back and fire 3 good shots. Keep at it, using your sling, the Rifleman's Guide (http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/catalog/acc.asp), and your training until you do.

Assuming that the first group were all good shots, it's time to think about how to adjust your rear sight. If you have a Garand or M1A, your job is simple. All you have to do is remember that each click - windage or elevation - is equal to 1 MOA.

Here's how you do it:

1) Inches: How many inches, for both elevation and windage, is the center of my group away from my aiming point? In this case, you are 1 inch below the aiming point (elevation), and 1/2 inch to the left of the AP for your windage.

2) MOA: The second step is to convert your inch calculations from step #1 above into MOA for that distance. You have memorized the fact that 1 MOA = ¼ inch at 25 meters, so what you need to do is figure out how many ¼ inch units (or MOA units) there are in your 1 inch low elevation, ½ left windage calculations. Anybody know the answer? Anybody? Bueller???

That's right - 1 inch low elevation equals 4 ¼ inch units, which in turn equals 4 MOA low. ½ inch left windage equals 2 ¼ inch units, which equals 2 MOA left windage.

3) Clicks: Now that you know what your elevation and windage errors are, it's a simple matter to adjust your M1/M1A sights, on which 1 click for standard sights always equals 1 MOA for both elevation and windage. You know, based on your calculations above, that you are 4 MOA low, so add 4 clicks "up" elevation (that's the left-side knob) on your rear sight. You should be turning the knob back towards you to add elevation. Same drill for windage, which is the right-side knob on your rear sight. Your windage error is 2 MOA left, so add 2 clicks right windage (checking the markings on the knob so that you know you are turning it the right way.

Now, when you fire your confirmation 3-round group and those 3 shots are each good shots, your rounds should be hitting right at your aiming point.

Bingo! You have established your 25M zero, which also equals your 200 yard zero, because of the trajectory of the standard NATO load. You are also only one step away from setting your Battle Sight Zero (BSZ), which allows you to shoot without worrying about sight settings all the way out to 275 yards.

[Grin Reaper]

Ditto to M1A4ME's post.
If your group is >8moa (so therefore 2" at 25 yds/m), don't worry about adjusting your sights yet (as long as you're on the paper, that is  ); just focus on the 6 steps and work on shrinking the groups 1st.

[funfaler]

Your LOADED rear sight is 1 MOA per click for elevation change, and I think that the windage is actually 1/2 MOA per click, others may have better information .

If you are absolutely starting from scratch with the rifle, and you want to start with your sights at a position that should get you on paper at 25 meters, plus give you a great place to work from.  You center your front and rear sights for windage and then run your rear sight to the bottom (minimum elevation).  From that bottomed out spot if you come "UP" @ 10 clicks, that will be close to what you will need for a 25meter/200 yard zero.  This will give you a place to start.  Make windage adjustments by moving the front sight.

Once you get the elevation set for the 25 meter range, that will also be your 200 yard zero (you will need to confirm this at actual range when able). 

To get to your "Battle Sight Zero- BSZ" you will need to raise your sight to 250 meters (your sight should be calibrated in Meters), so this is 2 clicks "UP".  So the original 10 to start off with plus the 2 to get to BSZ is 12 up clicks.  Your rifle might be slightly different, so you will have to go through the effort of zeroing your rifle.  Once you get your 25 meter zero, then count the "clicks" down to bottom out the sight, thus, if your rear sight gets messed up (which will happen) all you need to do is bottom out your sight count "UP" the clicks to your predetermined 25 meter zero or plus 2 more to a BSZ.

The number of clicks to bottom out your rear sight, for either 25 meter zero or BSZ or both should be recorded on a piece of tape and put on the underside of your flip-up plate on the butt plate.  That way it is recorded and you can reference it if needed.  You will also want to commit to memory the standard "come ups" for the 308 for the different ranges.  They are below

100-200 yards = 3 moa
200-300 yards = 3 moa
300-400 yards = 4 moa
400-500 yards = 4 moa

for your sight each moa is a click of elevation, thus if you have BSZ set (=250meters/275 yards), you will need to come up 5 clicks total to get to 400 yards (1 click to get to 300 + 4 clicks to go from 300 to 400 yards)  You can confirm/test how many MOAs there are between ranges by counting the clicks between the settings/markings for the ranges on your rear sight drum.  Each MOA is a click.  Just a FYI, there are 109 yards in 100 meters, so at 500 meters, you are actually shooting 545 yards.  Not a huge factor until you start shooting out past 500 yards/meters, so don't get yourself wound up about the difference. 

Fred's guide really does a great job of working through this stuff, if you don't have it I highly recommend that you get it.  It will offer you a resource to re-review this stuff so that you will become a M1A, rear sight super ninja.

Don't 'cringe'  most of us here are happy to help and are know for our gentle and friendly service

[hawkhavn]

Ax,

What part of Indiana are you in?

Ed