Tips to making qualifying easier

[jmdavis]

To reiterate an earlier post. The best tip that I can offer is to dryfire every chance that you get. If it works for Olympic Champions (and it does) it can work for you.

Mike

[marrandy]

Are the shooters with 7 round mags engaging in a "total and deliberate failure to follow directions?" What about those

The man said  "Don't forget about the "one trick" for the middle stages. Fire one round and drop the mag, then replace, then you don't have to rack the bolt."

You are being pedantic and deliberately misleading by introducing other variables as some sort of justification.  Typical of the attitude in the organization which is why I am pretty much done now.  Have a nice day.

[2 clicks low]

Thank you Marrandy.

I was making the same point and read my post  ...I deleted it as violating CRP  .  You put this much more elegantly than I ever could. Without even one profanity 

Thanks
2cl

Are the shooters with 7 round mags engaging in a "total and deliberate failure to follow directions?" What about those

The man said  "Don't forget about the "one trick" for the middle stages. Fire one round and drop the mag, then replace, then you don't have to rack the bolt."

You are being pedantic and deliberately misleading by introducing other variables as some sort of justification.  Typical of the attitude in the organization which is why I am pretty much done now.  Have a nice day.

[Nickle]

Gentlemen, making provisions for situations where 2/8 is not possible is much different than those who are altering the course of fire for nothing more than trying to pick up a few points by "gaming" the situation.

Matter of fact, as I stated earlier, 2/8 is itself an adaptation, as 5/5 is impractical in an M1 Garand.

The point is to do a complete mag change, ALL of it, in the course of fire. It matters little if it's 1/9, 2/8, 3/7, 4/6 or 5/5, or even the reverse of any of those. What does matter is for the shooter to do a complete mag change, not just half a mag change. If racking or releasing the bolt is part of it, then it's good.

Now, this is a minor issue, nothing more. Not worth the time to squabble over it.

And, why squabble over this, when there's work that needs doing, like getting the firing lines filled?

[Teflon John]

One tip I have is when posting your targets, mark it in a manner that it can easily be aquired when you lose your NPOA for whatever reason. i.e. clearing a serious malfunction.
Placing the target higher/lower than your two neighbors, drawing a smiley face in the middle, etc.
The shoot I was at there were numbers above each shooters target but when you are under the time pressure, don't assume you have the right target.
I started out placing my target as low as I could get it to relieve the stress on my neck. This put the numbers quite a bit above the target. Once my neighbor shooters started doing the same, I had to start drawing on mine.

[Nickle]

Smart way to help prevent crossfiring, John.

[Roland]

I apologize for all the debate my post seems to have caused. It was not my intent. It's never been a problem around here, and I've always asked the shoot boss. Title of the post was "Tips to make qualifying easier". I don't personally suggest this unless a shooter is losing four or more shots due to repeatedly fumbling the magazine change.

Again, I'm very sorry for all the debate and frustration this seems to have caused.

Roland

[mac66]

Whew, looks like a few got off track there for a moment, how bout some more tips.

Here's one for loading mags.

If you have two mags, load 10 and 8. When you are done with the first stage, just load 2 into the empty mag to be prepared for the second.

If you have three mags, load 10, 8 & 8. Again, you only have to load subsequent mags with two rounds for stages 2 & 3.

I load 4 mags, 10. 8, 8, & 10.  Easy to load 2 rounders for the middle stages.

That's what works best for me. YMMV.

[slim]

A ways back I heard a good one -

"Verify your NPOA is on target and then shoot at Rifleman's cadence by the numbers." Every shooter I've seen that's done that has shot Rifleman scores consistently, and in short order.

Typically when I see folks try all these tips and tricks using various gidgets and gadgets, they struggle to shoot Rifleman scores consistently. They'll hit it that one time at that one event but when asked to do it again, they'll always have an equipment issue or something just didn't work right.

A Rifleman can pick up any rack-grade rifle, surplus ball ammo, and after a one round sighter, make hits on a man-sized target at 500 yards.  shoot a Rifleman score.

Folks, don't get fixated on that score. It's just a score. Appleseed teaches a skill. Teach 'em the skill and they'll get the score. Teach 'em to worry about the score and they may miss the skill - and the score!

[techres]

I am with Slim in that the focus on instruction is to master the fundamentals and NPOA is as fundamental as it gets.

At the same time, I do not see little gaming tricks any violation of instructor control and do not mind them so long as they do not lead to a safety risk (as a few can be). 

The tricks however, should not be any focus just like match triggers, etc can become.

Personally, I find the 1 shot mag swap to be most useful with a shooter that is having issues with racking the bolt.  The down side is that many end up racking anyways and ejecting a good round which costs many more seconds than the tactic offers...   

If the shooter has fun, the rounds end up in the right places, the focus remains on NPOA and the POI, then a little thing here and there for the competitive ones to smirk about is no problem to me as a RH or SB.

They are just not something I teach to everyone.  And from what I gather, that is the same for most in this thread.

[Shooter30-06]

I have always been a little leery of the one shot mag change for safety reasons.  I have never felt comfortable with a high stress mag change with a round in chamber and the safety probably in the fire position.  That is simply a lot of agitation around the trigger.  As an Instructor or Line Boss I will permit the one shot change but I do not advocate it.  Most shooters will gain more by simply getting down in position and practicing the changes with empty mags.

[ItsanSKS]

One of the tips that I give to shooters that are having difficulty changing magazines, is that they need to practice doing it, at home, as part of their dry-fire exercises. 

Here's how I become proficient with changing magazines on a new rifle:

Practice inserting and removing the magazine in a comfortable position.  (kitchen table, recliner, where ever) Determine the fewest number of hand movements required to successfully insert and remove a magazine.  Practice these movements, taking careful note on exactly how the magazine should be indexed to the rifle (which angle should it take to the mag well, if any, etc)
Once figured out, now start doing it from the various shooting positions. 
Once you think you're really good at it, do it in the dark, with a pile of magazines dumped helter-skelter like on the floor next to you- practice discarding 'empties' (they should ALL be empty) and grabbing fresh ones.   

Get pretty good at doing that too? 

Start over, but this time, do it opposite-handed.

Somewhere along the way, changing magazines becomes second nature, as it should be...

(FWIW, I also do the above with stripper-clip charged rifles, such as the SKS and '03; I just use 'snap caps' instead of live rounds)

[dwarven1]

Here's one for loading mags.

Here's a better one: I use a Butler Creek 10/22 Magazine loader when I'm shooting my LTR. It's awesome - no more waiting to load up. Product # 540353 at MidwayUSA. (I'd post a link but being behind the Iron Firewall I can only see the Midway site on my cell phone.)

Only drawback? You can go through a lot more ammo faster... 

[Son of Martha]

Forget all the nonsense.

Do as Slim said.

Bringing a chopped and channeled 10/22 with an anti-tank scope and more mods and aftermarket parts than most low-riders is cheating the shooter.  Bringing a stock rifle with a sling and "normal" (Ball or bulk) ammo is more productive for actually learning the skill.  Learn to shoot adequately with "normal" gear and ammo and you will shoot even better with tarted up stuff.  Learn to shoot adequately with man-barbie toys, you will likely shoot poorly with normal gear.

The rules say how each string of fire should be executed.  If you CAN do them that way, you SHOULD do them that way.  Find another way to add time (thus, points) to your score (Hint--Slim knows how to do this...).

Make slight mods to the rules if needed due to equipment limitations or handicapped shooters, but be honest with yourself and others as to what your objective actually is. (Are you staying within the spirit of the rules because the letter of the rules is not do-able with the equipment or situation at hand, or gaming the system to get a "score" ).  After that don't get caught up in arguments about how many Patriots can dance on the head of a cartridge.

"Verify your NPOA is on target and then shoot at Rifleman's cadence by the numbers." Every shooter I've seen that's done that has shot Rifleman scores...

QFT.  don't over-complicate it, just do what he said.

SoM

[Roland]

Think I got another one that I don't believe will make anyone  angry...

What I've been doing at the last couple of shoots  when I see shooters having problems with the mag changes is:

During prep periods, I have them practice reaching down and pretending to insert a mag without breaking position. (And, needless to say, with no mags anywhere near.)

Then, have them put the mags down at  Safeties on Stand, at  just the right spot.

After a little bit of practice, you can do it without hardly thinking, or breaking NPOA.

However this won't work with most ARs, because of that darn charging handle. It seems to work with almsot all other rifles I've seen though.

Works wonders, and I don't see a way how that could be considered gaming.

[Nickle]

Roland, that is Instruction, certainly not gaming or even close to it. Continue to do that.

I've got way over average experience with AR's. Charging handle doesn't come into the equation of AQT strings.

I'll be glad to discuss why it doesn't with anyone that wants.

If you want to know, and don't have my phone #, just PM me for it, if you're an IIT or Red Hat. Others, just ask one of your local Instructors (IIT0 through MI), I'm sure they'll help you, if they know the answer, if they don't, they can call me. That will keep me from potentially getting bogged down with calls.

[mac66]

We get many new shooters on the line who not only have little experience shooting but little if any experience with firearms. We throw a lot of information at them and expect them to learn their rifle, learn the trigger, safety, sights, sling, positions, techniques of shooting, and the course of fire. We then throw it all together and expect them to perform everything under a time limit.

Remember what I said about fine motor skills eroding under stress?  Well these people are under stress when we do that to them.

Some rifles have mechanical disadvantages to them. The mags, buttons, levers, sights, etc, etc are difficult to operate under stress and/or you are young and/or unfamiliar with handling them. So modifying those items may take away some of the disadvantage and may help moderate some of the stress.  It can hardly be called gaming, or cheating when one lessons the odds stacked against them.

We all agree that practice, practice, practice is the best thing to shoot rifleman. But in a real world, our students don't get to practice much if at all. Making it easier for them to be successful lessons the frustration and the stress. It enhances the shooting and learning experience in my opinion.

[Roland]

Think reading this thread all the way through again has made me  change my mind about some things. Nickle, thank you for the encouragement, and I'll plan on that.

[Nickle]

Well, I could tell you all about the story of the school teacher that came to an Appleseed with her first rifle. When she got there, she barely knew which end the bullets come out of, but, she did her homework, and knew the "controls". It was a Savage bolt action MkII series, scoped with a reasonable scope.

By the end of the weekend, she got her Rifleman patch. She listened and she persevered.

There's nothing we teach that is that hard to do. Yes, getting all 10 rounds down range in stages 2 & 3 can be hard. Work with the shooter to get them there. Have them shoot a RF/AQT or two, that usually gets their stage by stage times better, as there's no time to waste. The RF/AQT shooters that do real actually have plenty of time left over. The purpose is to get them to quit "fussing the shot".

And, those I see "gaming" the AQT are virtually never new shooters, but usually the guys that have been shooting for years, that really just want the patch so bad.

[Piker]

2 and 8? One clear and one black magazine. Or 2 clear ones.

Mag not dropping free? Wal-mart, Lowes, HD all have sandpaper in various grits.

Ammo problems? A little time at the range first to see what your weapon likes.