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My Garand took 24 clicks up from the bottom to zero at 25 meters.

Started by wesm, April 29, 2010, 10:12:02 PM

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wesm

April 29, 2010, 10:12:02 PM
What gives?  This was using Greek HXP ammo.  I thought the 10 clicks up was a pretty good rule of thumb, but mine took 24 clicks to zero.  Should I file my front post down or something??
"Shame on the men who can court exemption from present trouble and expense at the price of their own posterity's liberty!" - Samuel Adams

Son of Martha

#1
April 29, 2010, 10:38:53 PM
I have one that is BSZ at 10 clicks with Lake City, same one is 23 clicks with HXP.

Don't think it is anything to modify the rifle over, have heard of another instance of something similar with same ammo types.  Just different barrel harmonics.

SoM
Raise ye the stone or cleave the wood to make a path more fair or flat
Lo, it is black already with blood some Son of Martha spilled for that
Not as a ladder from earth to Heaven, nor as a witness to any creed
But simple service, simply given, to his own kind in their common need.

dean

#2
April 29, 2010, 10:50:37 PM
I have like, 10 different years of HXP ammo from CMP. It is absulutely the most inconsistant ammo I have ever shot out of an M1. It is definately de-linked machine gun ammo. One lot produced enormous muzzle blast and flash and I swear I could have caught the bullet by hand midway to the target. Other years are much quieter and faster and more like M1 30.06 ammo.

Don't mod your rifle for this ammo. It is about the only thing available at a reasonable price. But keep the cases for reloading, they are pretty good cases.

Xeyed

#3
April 30, 2010, 01:07:35 PM
Is this representative of the new shipment of ammo they are currently offering?
One Man awake, Awakens another. The second awakens  His next-door brother.
The three awake can rouse a town. By turning the whole place upside down.

The many awake can make such a fuss. It finally awakens the rest of us.
One man up, with dawn in his eyes, Surely then, Multiplies. Lawrence Trib

Old Dog

#4
April 30, 2010, 04:51:01 PM
Every rifle is different.

My HXP so far has been great.

I have one M1 that I had to put a taller front sight on so POA/POI would be the same at 25 meters with the rear sight bottomed out.  Others are up 6 clicks or 8 clicks but I don't think any are more than 8 clicks up on the rear sight.

Do the group sizes stay the same after a couple of clips as when you start?  Do the groups move as the rifle barrel heats up?  Is your upper handguard sightly loose on the barrel/gas cylinder -  you don't want it to be tight.

How low is it hitting at your zero range?  Sounds like 6" low?  If you do file the front sight down you might want to buy a spare just in case.  I'm not sure you can file that much off the front sight and still use it.

Good luck with it.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

wesm

#5
April 30, 2010, 06:19:00 PM
Quote from: Old Dog on April 30, 2010, 04:51:01 PM
Do the group sizes stay the same after a couple of clips as when you start?  Do the groups move as the rifle barrel heats up?  Is your upper handguard sightly loose on the barrel/gas cylinder -  you don't want it to be tight.

I have only gotten to shoot it once so far, at 25m at the end of an Appleseed event.  I didn't notice the groups moving as the barrel heats up, b/c I was adjusting sights as I went.  Yes, the upper handguard is slightly loose.  I was concerned about that at first but my brother assured me that it is normal.

I am not about to do anything drastic yet until I get more rounds through it.  I have some Lake City I will shoot out of it; the Greek HXP was donated by OldFudd.  Hopefully I had some strange ammo and the Lake City and HXP that I have will act properly.
"Shame on the men who can court exemption from present trouble and expense at the price of their own posterity's liberty!" - Samuel Adams

franklinfarmer

#6
April 30, 2010, 06:38:09 PM

I just zeroed mine with lake city.  One shot to adjust windage 6MOA; elevation was correct at 9 clicks up.  Was planning to use some of the Greek for a shoot this weekend, but maybe I should rethink that.
It is certain, I think, that the best government is the one that governs least. But there is a much-neglected corollary: the best citizen is the one who least needs governing. The answer to big government is not private freedom, but private responsibility.

--Wendell Berry, "The Loss of the Future" in The Long-Legged House  (1969)

The problem is not Democrats.  The problem is Republicans who lack the intellectual clarity to become libertarians and libertarians who lack the physical discipline to become riflemen.  ---Kenneth Royce

Francis Marion

#7
May 01, 2010, 01:06:09 AM
If you achieve desired point of impact within the rear sight's range of motion- there's no need to file anything. 
M1 rifles vary considerably in the number of clicks between mechanical zero and the achievement of desired point of impact.  You should only file/replace that front sight if it's too tall with the rifle set to mechanical zero. 

Old Dog

#8
May 01, 2010, 07:50:58 AM
One other thing I should have thought of...are you absolutetly sure your eye is in the right spot behind that rear sight?  I've seen folks have issues with that before.  They get all sighted in, after a few hours of shooting they suddenly realize "something" about their position just isn't quite right and they make an adjustment.....then doggone if they don't have to make a rear sight adjustment, too.

Even if you're getting your cheek on that stock in the same position every time (consistent cheek weld is necessary for good groups at the same point of aim) if your eye was not directly behind that rear sight you could be affecting the point of impact.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

hawkeye

#9
May 01, 2010, 08:57:45 AM
I've found the Greek ammo to be good ammo, not match ammo but good. The front and rear hand guard should have some movement in them about the thickness of a phone book cover. Remove your follower rod and op rod spring with just the receiver and barrel in the stock the op rod and bolt should move back and forth by tilting the stock back and forth . If it hangs up or touches wood anywhere trim the wood in the area that touches. This will keep the stock from being part of the problem. 10 to 12 clicks from bottom is a good starting point for finding your zero YMMV. Next like Old Dog suggested your position should be tight with your nose touching or on the receiver heel.  This will give you a repeatable ryr distance from the rear sight. In the photos below look how close there eye is to the rear sight. The blond guy with the 1903A3 may have just fired notice his eye is open. Practice ...
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of crap by the clean end." Texas A&M student

wesm

#10
May 01, 2010, 10:09:26 AM
So is my eye too far back here? 
"Shame on the men who can court exemption from present trouble and expense at the price of their own posterity's liberty!" - Samuel Adams

bedford

#11
May 01, 2010, 12:10:50 PM Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 12:15:58 PM by bedford
Is your stock USGI or a Boyds?  I feel their stock is too low compared to USGI.

Like Old Dog said, "turkey neck" as far as possible, it makes a hug difference in sight picture.  See how Hawkeye has his nose along the receiver, and is using his thumb as part of the head position?  jrturbo also gets his cheek right behind the receiver, where your thumb is resting.  

wesm

#12
May 01, 2010, 12:48:50 PM
It's a USGI stock.  Got it from the CMP in January, and have been too busy to shoot it until the end of the April 17-18 Appleseed weekend.  So there's still some "getting used" to involved with it.
"Shame on the men who can court exemption from present trouble and expense at the price of their own posterity's liberty!" - Samuel Adams

The Kid

#13
May 01, 2010, 09:31:54 PM Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 11:42:36 AM by The Kid
Hawkeye nailed it.  Your head is too far back.  Like I said on another post it is just a matter of becoming familiar with the rifle.  You need to roll with the recoil.  Once you can do that they you can get your nose all the way up to the receiver without getting the cherry on your lip.  Remember get a solid position, snug sling, drop your head to the stock, and focus on the front sight.  These are key when shooting a high powered rifle. If you are focusing on the front sight you can't possibly know the rifle is going to go off so you therefore can not flinch. Consistency is the key.  Good luck and persist.

TK

EDIT:Below I attached a photo of how close I get to the rear sight on the garand.
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