the title says it all
Many people build their own Liberty Training rifle using simple tools.
If you start with a basic Ruger 10/22, add Tech Sights and a sling... with solid fundamentals you can shoot a ten round group at 25 meters like this:
(https://scontent.fhsv1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11954586_617052961771032_3991250658352548225_n.jpg?oh=eb179aa22787df35c0241cb44454e948&oe=5A5C2677)
Check out the details here: Liberty Training Rifle (https://appleseedinfo.org/pdf/LTR.pdf)
P.S. The shooter was wearing a suit, tie removed and collar loosened. ;)
Marlin is not currently making the 795 Appleseed LTR. You may be able to find one on gunbroker or something.
Alternatively, it is relatively easy to slap tech sights and a sling on a stock 795. Buy a second magazine, and you're good to go. Here in TX we are about to buy a bunch of stock 795s to do just that.
If starting over I would go with Marlin 795. Cheaper rifle, very accurate and it already has sling swivel studs already on it.
Ruger 10/22 is just as capable but needs more added to it and cost more.
Look at the whole system rifle and magazines and ammunition for any firearms purchase you make.
Chuck
I probably would go Marlin over Ruger as well if the intent was building a straight LTR. I picked up a new Model 60 (which the 795 is a variant of) and comparing it against a 10/22 in factory condition, I think the Marlin is a better gun for less money. Pretty darn good trigger in mine, too, for a sub-$200 rifle. Slap tech sights and a sling on it and you're basically done.
The 10/22's primary advantage is its aftermarket, and maybe its magazines (which people seem to like).
Both are very strong options. If you want to change literally everything, Rugers are better. If not, probably Marlins.
I went the Marlin route, and love it. Definitely want the Tech sights for any Appleseed-type event.
If you have a burning desire, you can actually build it out better than a stock liberty rifle. I put in aftermarket springs from MCARBO, which significantly reduced trigger weight. Later, I also put in an aftermarket trigger from DIProducts. These are both "nice to have" but certainly aren't critical, and don't have to be done on your first event (or at all).
Big DIP fan here too. Nothing that's a must-have by any means, but they make really nice parts.
Between Mr. Smith and myself we have two 10/22s, two Marlin 795s, and two Marlin 60s. The Rugers are his, the Marlins are mine. Yep, it's a house divided lol
They both have pros and cons. And really you can't lose either way.
I've done a couple LTR's for Appleseed. The end product was written up in the Appleseed newsletter Aug/Sept 2015.
I'll attach a few or the links
The original build -up http://floridaappleseed.blogspot.com/2015/06/liberty-teaching-rifle.html
The thread on the newsletter buildup https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=46555.0
The rifle is well used and tested the only change is the insides of the Ruger/GAMO scope self-destructed and was replaced by a fixed 4x "bug buster" NC Star, which has held-up extremely well. This little rifle has patched many times and put many others on the Rifleman's path.
I'm gathering the parts together for 2 more to duplicate it. (one for an additional loaner, one for grand-kids to shoot kept at the Mt house)
Over the years, we have owned both. Back in 2008 one could get a 795 for $99 from Big 5 with a manufacturer coupon.
Out of the box they still might have the edge over the 10/22. At that price, we bought a few over the next few years for loaners.
But being a gunsmith type, I tore one down to become familiar with it (as I do all my firearms)
and to be honest, I was not impressed with the internals. I am into firearms for the long haul and the 10/22 gets my vote.
I came to the opposite conclusion, ha. The only Ruger parts I was happy with in the end were the bolt and receiver.
Feed throat kits are a consumable in my view though.
awesome fellas, who do i order one from who's got the lowest price, AND how do i mount the tech sigTS i have clinic in el paso coming up here soon, and need to be ready.
I wouldn't order one from anyone. Go to a store and actually hold them. I think my local Walmart has them both. A couple of the guys at the counter are even good. ;)
I would rather go to a decent local shop if you have one.
If you have good eyes you can order Tech-sights from the Appleseed store or straight from Tech-sight. You need to hurry to get it in time to install them. If you are putting a scope on it I recommend the EGW or the DIP products mount that allows you to move to scope far enough forward.
Let us know what you get and the way you want to go for more help. There may even be an Appleseed volunteer near you that can give you a hand.
Not sure where you're located, but Academy Sports often has these in stock. You can order from budsgunshop.com and they usually have pretty fast shipping.
You'll want at least a second magazine for an Appleseed (also available at Academy). I always bring a third, in case of spring problems.
The Marlin has swivel studs, but no swivels. You want the 1.25" version, not the 1".
If you order quickly from the Appleseed store, you should have it by next weekend. You can get the swivels, the sling & the tech sights all from there. Pick up a sight adjustment tool if you order from there - you can adjust without it, but it's oh-so-much easier this way.
Make sure you use a little dab of Loctite on the Tech sights before installation. Screw them on TIGHT. Otherwise they may work their way loose, and the end of your day just gets increasingly frustrating.
A lot of good info here, one thing no one has asked though.
How good is your vision?
If vision is an issue there's nothing wrong with a low power fixed scope, 4X more than adequate. 1" with rings about the same for an economy version and it will do everything you need it to.
Remember the purpose of an LTR -- a rimfire designed to simulate a center fire fighting rifle to allow for cheap practice. Ideally, your LTR should simulate whatever your go-to center fire rifle is. The 10/22 with Tech Sights emulates an M1 or M-14 nicely, which is why it became the most popular basis for LTRs. M1s and M-14 variants were the most popular rifles in Appleseed early in the program.
Henschman brings up a great point.
I've gotten several friends down to Appleseed events, with more signed up for later this year. The range I normally volunteer at is .22 only. When my friends ask me about this, I point out that there are (at least) two really positive benefits to starting with the .22:
1. Cost of ammunition. At my first event as a shooter, I was debating shooting my centerfire or buying the Marlin. I bought the Marlin, and the difference in the cost of ammunition nearly paid for the rifle on the first event. By now it's more than paid for itself, even after the customizations I've put in (discussed above).
2. Recoil
A. Some shooters are more sensitive to recoil, and 500 rounds can add up over two short days.
B. Shooting a .22, which has minimal recoil, will help inexperienced shooters from developing a flinch.
Both centerfire & rimfire rifles can hit 25 meters consistently, without problem. Appleseed uses this distance to simulate full distance, out to 400 yards. When going out to full distance, the two biggest factors (that don't apply at 25) are bullet drop & windage. We can teach those in pretty short order. Make sure you understand Minute of Angle (MOA), which is taught at the 25 meter sessions. In my personal experience, this seems to be one of the factors that shooters have trouble grasping at first - but mastering it pays big dividends. It's okay to ask questions at the events - please do.
On a somewhat related note on centerfire rifles: I didn't grow up around firearms, & my first rifle was an AR-15. Not surprising, since it's very popular. I still have that rifle, but if I had to choose between that and my M1A - I'd sell the AR-15, hands-down every time.
Just my $0.02
I got my rifle for sportsman warehouse , i had trouble tracking one down. My next questions are this, what size sling swivel for a USGI web sling, were to get tech sights, and magazines. I did dint get a 10 22 to expensive for me.
thanks
Quote from: daniel17319 on October 06, 2017, 02:01:21 PM
I got my rifle for sportsman warehouse , i had trouble tracking one down. My next questions are this, what size sling swivel for a USGI web sling, were to get tech sights, and magazines. I did dint get a 10 22 to expensive for me.
thanks
Most of what you are looking for can be found here (http://store.rwvaappleseed.com/page13.html).
sent my order in
Mil-Spec slings are 1.25 inch and need 1.25 inch swivels to accommodate. I am sure you got what you needed but wanted to post for clarity in case anyone else reads through this string.