Folks,
we're putting the finishing touches on a KD shoot at Port Malabar Rifle and Pistol Club in Palm Bay for April 29 & 30, 2017. This shoot will be conducted on the only registered 600-yard range in the Florida, and will use the new electronic targeting system (Silver Mountain is developing a D-target for us).
Mark your calendars, we expect it to fill up quickly one posted.
tk
It's a beautiful range and where PHenry first shot past 200M - ever. It was my first NRA HP comp in 2007, but after I had attended a single AS event - the only reason I was able to make hits at 600 yards. This a real range with a "Target Pit" - the best kind. You can stand at the target line while the line is hot and hear the projo strike the berm. "Thump".. "crak".."poof" - something to experience for sure.
Quote from: malabar on December 05, 2016, 09:39:47 AM
Folks,
we're putting the finishing touches on a KD shoot at Port Malabar Rifle and Pistol Club in Palm Bay for April 29 & 30, 2017. This shoot will be conducted on the only registered 600-yard range in the Florida, and will use the new electronic targeting system (Silver Mountain is developing a D-target for us).
Mark your calendars, we expect it to fill up quickly one posted.
tk
Tk
Please tell more about new electronic targeting system. ..:..
If the Baby gets here on time and I am allowed out of the house , I will be there.
Still shoot at paper targets to have an aiming point. Silver Mountain is working with us to create the full size D target display. Hits are sonically measured by microphones at the target backer corners. Point of aim and point of impact are calibrated to coincide. Each shooter must provide a personal electronic device such as a smart phone, tablet or Kindle to view the display. Spotting scope only needed if the system goes down and pits are manned to mark targets. See screen shot of a sample display below.
I believe this to be the same system the CMP has at the range where Rusty and Ben had an event - slicker'n snake boggers it is.
Bad news - I have agreed to run this one. Just wanted to offer fair warning. Working out details with Malabar now - will post upon completion.
PH
The CMP uses a different electronic target system, from Kongsberg Target Systems out of Norway. The KTS targets have an advantage in that they can detect subsonic rounds but other than that you should not notice any significant differences.
This is a different system than CMP at Talladega. The best part is we will shoot at 100, 200, 300 and 400. CMP requires a work-around for distance.
Folks,
Just got the final OK.
As PHenry said, this is the same system that the NRA is using for their matches. You shoot at the big D-target down range, and a little tablet in front of you displays exactly where your round struck. Silver Mountain is creating the software to display the Appleseed D-Target (which will be made available to anyone who wants to use it).
There will be a range fee (which I have no control over). PMRPC has the only 600-yard competition range in Florida, and all of the state matches are shot here -- along with the Orange Blossom Regional, a three-week match that draws hundreds of shooters from North and South America (and occasionally Europe).
Camping is available on site, local hotels offer a discount if you tell them you're in town to shoot at PMRPC. There's great fried chicken about seven minutes from the front gate, and decent pizza about 10 minutes away. Homemade ice-cream is 15 minutes away, and one of the best (and more expensive) restaurants in the state is a 25-minute drive.
Lots of Appleseeders in the area, so they might accommodate you.
Great news Tom. In addition to the customary equipment, each shooter will require a personal electronic device (PED) as part of their kit. A smart phone will work, although the screen is pretty hard to read. A 7 or 10 inch tablet such as an iPad, Kindle or the like works best. Make sure you have enough battery to run the display for the day. I have a 7000 mAh and a 10,000 mAh battery pack that plugs into the USB port on mine. Lots of reserve there. No special software is required--just your browser and wifi. We connect to the Silver Mountain server through the High Power Range wifi.
I presume a laptop with built in WiFi would also work so long as the power requirements are addressed.
When is this expected to Hit TIPS ?
PHenry,
Absolutely! There may be a trade off for display size and power drain. Larger screens can improve viewing area and image size for those of us with vision impairment. Being one of those, I can say the Kindle Fire has a screen that is adequate, is cost effective, and reasonably power efficient. I still have an auxiliary battery pack to extend the viewing time. The WI-FI is active full time and drains the battery. You view your sighter shots and may want to view the target during your own string and while scoring or observing another relay. So the screen is on most of the day. Visibility in sunlight is another issue. Placing your device in a small hard sided pistol case in the open clam shell configuration, held in place by small bungees, works well. It keeps it at an angle to aid viewing. There's even space behind for the extra battery.
Quote from: TheMenace on December 20, 2016, 11:37:59 AM
PHenry,
Absolutely! There may be a trade off for display size and power drain. Larger screens can improve viewing area and image size for those of us with vision impairment. Being one of those, I can say the Kindle Fire has a screen that is adequate, is cost effective, and reasonably power efficient. I still have an auxiliary battery pack to extend the viewing time. The WI-FI is active full time and drains the battery. You view your sighter shots and may want to view the target during your own string and while scoring or observing another relay. So the screen is on most of the day. Visibility in sunlight is another issue. Placing your device in a small hard sided pistol case in the open clam shell configuration, held in place by small bungees, works well. It keeps it at an angle to aid viewing. There's even space behind for the extra battery.
Agree the Kindle has the power and reasonable battery life at 40$a bargain. ( a quick recharge in the truck at lunch or a cheap add on battery should get you all day)
But will the app run on a regular (non jail-braked) Kindle?
It's not an app. You are connecting to the server using your wifi. So, any device that is wifi capable and has a browser (Silk, Safari, Internet Explorer, Chrome, etc.) will work. Hope this helps explain how easy it is.
Quote from: TheMenace on January 01, 2017, 08:49:15 AM
It's not an app. You are connecting to the server using your wifi. So, any device that is wifi capable and has a browser (Silk, Safari, Internet Explorer, Chrome, etc.) will work. Hope this helps explain how easy it is.
O0
When will this shoot be on the schedule?
Wreck
Quote from: PHenry on December 20, 2016, 09:41:09 AM
I presume a laptop with built in WiFi would also work so long as the power requirements are addressed.
Yep. I can sit at my home with my laptop and watch them scoring on the high-power range.
tk
Here's the official link to sign up for the shoot...
http://www.eventbrite.com/event/31422440365
It's not listed as a public link, the shoot is only for instructors -- and riflemen that PHenry will approve.
tk
The Known Distance clinic at PMRPC in Palm Bay is just a little more than a month away. The illustrious PHenry has agreed to Shoot Boss this event. You won't want to miss it (unless you are one of the dedicated individuals putting on the As that weekend in Gainesville). Are you attending?
Sign up for Riflemen: http://www.eventbrite.com/event/31422440365
PM me if you need details about location, access, camping, etc.
Dennis
321-427-6959
I am one of the dedicated individuals putting on the AS in Gainesville that weekend, wah! :'(
Who scheduled this on the same weekend >:D
It's a disappointment for several folks. Late last year when we started to work the request with the Range there were no conflicts. We have a limited number of opportunities to gain access to the 600 yard high power range. Any month in which there is a fifth full weekend there will not normally be anything on the schedule except berm and target maintenance. We may request to be added to the schedule on a NIB to that maintenance. Our request for April was approved by the club's Board.
I really wish I didn't already have plans for that weekend.
Haha, so I guess it's our fault we scheduled the Gville AS on the same weekend! Well, some day I will get there!
MinuteMom, would you be interested if we could arrange an instructors-only KD weekend in Silver Springs? I believe we could get the Gwin Farm for shooting out to 400 yards, possibly more. Smoakingun knows the owners and we have been welcomed there in the past. Camping is possible or there are hotels not too far away. But, it would need to happen before the beastly hot weather sets in for the summer. Ideas?
I'm interested in making a KD happen at the Gwin farm! The sooner the better........count me in 100%
Here is a 5 second study guide for KD assuming you have 223 / 556 / 308 with standard 2.5" site over bore mounting and a 25 zero:
QuoteIt's not listed as a public link, the shoot is only for instructors -- and riflemen that PHenry will approve.
This range is the real deal - a military-type 600 range. However, over time, it has also got penned in a bit by residential housing about 2K yards behind the main berm. One bullet runs astray and the range could be lost forever. That is of course, not an option. As such, anyone who wishes to shoot will be required to place five rounds inside or touching a 1" square at 25M and we will not tarry there to get more time on the long range. All rifles WILL be charged only with their muzzles pointed at the berm - zero exceptions.
The last event I ran there was a tad stressful for all. Hopefully we can get this one to run a bit smoother. I think with the new scoring system, combined with strict vetting of the shooters - we should be golden.
You can shoot any center fire rifle, but if you mean to make score on the FD AQT - bring something mag fed and semi-auto, unless of course you are weak of character and seeking adversity to improve same. ^-^
I'm looking forward to the shoot and spending time with fellow patriots. Having been spoiled by the e-targets at CMP Talladega will we be shooting our AS D repair center targets or CMP-like round ones? I see the picture below but if it's like TD the image on the screen is computer generated after you've shot at a black hole at every distance. I know you see the shots on a smart device but I'm not clear on what the target is. Hits count or counting rings? Checking to see how much walking is involved. I'm almost recovered from a ruptured achilles' tendon I "earned" on 4/20/16 at a KD in Talladega. ;D
Wreck
Quote from: Minutemom on March 29, 2017, 11:07:11 PM
Haha, so I guess it's our fault we scheduled the Gville AS on the same weekend! Well, some day I will get there!
You have another KD opportunity on the 20/21st of May down I-75 at Myakka City Fl , at the Manatee Gun and Archery. We will be shooting on the 600 bench rest range.
The paper target shooters will see is attached. The electronic target is planned to match the paper target, visible on a web browser page, on your smart phone or whatever you are using that is logged into the local web page via WiFi.
Silver Mountain is doing the necessary conversions.
The PDF file of the target was made by repairing a PHenry target saved from the previous KD held here, scanning it electronically, then cleaning up the scanned image in Photo Shop. Paper targets are simply printed on a large format printer from the PDF file at the local FedEx Kinko's store.
The recurring cost for printing paper KD targets runs anywhere from just under $5 each to a little over $6 each, depending on whether discount coupons are used.
Lots of behind the scenes activity to make this all come together.
-- Gary
Previously, BSZ come-ups were not allowed on this range. So, I went out and demonstrated to the Rifle Director by shooting at 200 and 300 yards that BSZ would work fine with an M4-gery with a 16 inch barrel. I also demonstrated that shots 5, 6, 10, and 12 could be placed on the edge of the silhouette despite winds variable from about 2 mph to 15 mph by reading wind flags and adjusting POA to "box the silhouette". All done prone, with a sling, no bipod. With a 7mm Remington Magnum bolt gun on a bipod to my right.
The shots are recorded on a shot by shot basis, with chronograph data collected for each shot.
As I said, lots of behind the scenes activity to make this KD happen.
-- Gary
Wreck: You'll be aiming at a D target. Assuming the electronics are working correctly you will see your hits on the tablet. If not...we'll need to send people to the pits to pull and mark targets. In that situation we'll shoot in relays. If you have a spotting scope bring it so you can see your target after it is scored. There should be very little walking involved. We will score all hits in the black. 32 out of 40 for 80% passing score.
See comments above about personal scoring device. Everyone will need to include a tablet or laptop with WiFi in their kit. A smart phone will work but the screens are small.
You bet your patootie I'd be interested!! Thing is, I'm doing Appleseed shoots almost every weekend starting after Easter until the end of June. Only free weekends are May 13-14 and 27-28. I signed up for the KD in Tallahassee the weekend of May 20-21, so I don't feel so deprived. After reading PHenry's post above, maybe it's better that I get a little experience with my squeeky new CF rifle before trying a KD at this range ;)
Quote from: 9mm4545 on March 30, 2017, 12:07:00 AM
MinuteMom, would you be interested if we could arrange an instructors-only KD weekend in Silver Springs? I believe we could get the Gwin Farm for shooting out to 400 yards, possibly more. Smoakingun knows the owners and we have been welcomed there in the past. Camping is possible or there are hotels not too far away. But, it would need to happen before the beastly hot weather sets in for the summer. Ideas?
I already signed up for the Tallahassee shoot that same weekend! I will make it down to Myakka one of these days!
Quote from: stoneknives on March 30, 2017, 04:47:40 PM
Quote from: Minutemom on March 29, 2017, 11:07:11 PM
Haha, so I guess it's our fault we scheduled the Gville AS on the same weekend! Well, some day I will get there!
You have another KD opportunity on the 20/21st of May down I-75 at Myakka City Fl , at the Manatee Gun and Archery. We will be shooting on the 600 bench rest range.
The Known Distance clinic at PMRPC in Palm Bay is just a little more than a month away. The illustrious PHenry will Shoot Boss this event. You won't want to miss it. Everyone that signs up to shoot or instruct will get into the action.
We have space for tents and TT campers on site for $5.00 per night.
Sign up for Riflemen: http://www.eventbrite.com/event/31422440365
PM me if you need details about location, access, camping, etc.
Dennis
321-427-6959
Dennis ,
If I bring my Hammock instead of a tent , will I be able to hang it ?
HI Todd,
Yes we lots of pine trees. You should be able to work out a co-tenant arrangement with Big Chris. and the Master Chief.
;)
As much as I enjoy camping, I enjoy a hotel room more. >:D
To all who plan to attend this event - shooters and instructors:
This venue offers some special challenges, owing to its proximity to housing beyond the berm. The last event I ran here was painfully slow, allowing only a single FD AQT over two days. Many who attended were less than pleased and I take full responsibility, even if many of the obstacles that slowed us up were beyond my control. I will attempt to eliminate as many as possible by employing a system that I witnessed at the KD portion of a RBC run by RamblinWreck who will be serving with us at this event.
We were on a private airstrip in AL and the owner didn't want vehicle ruts in his airstrip so we had to "pack it in / pack it out". There was a class the evening before by Maximum Ordnance on how to pack a backpack. This is not a "Ruck", but a simple, frame-less pack into which we placed only what we needed. I will start a list of potentials and feel free to chime in with any items you think are essential.
Pack light - no really, like backpack
Data book
Blue tape for buttstock DOPE
Marker
Food
Water
Sunscreen
Hat
Microfiber long sleeve shirt
ammo
mags
sweat towel
All who intend to shoot should verify their 25M zero and 4MOA grouping or risk being DQ'd. This venue cannot have a round over the berm or into the target frames - period. We will shoot some squares at 25M to verify and classify each shooter for max allowable distance. We will also shoot a 25M stage one sil to show proficiency off-hand in front of the club's rifle director. All rounds in standing must impact the target, preferably in the 4 & 5 rings, to be able to shoot stage one at 100 yards. There is no way to shoot prone at 100 at this venue for zero adjust so we will simply add the standard "come ups" taught in the Sat AM class (actually come downs).
If we all pack light and shoulder our rifles, we can walk from one firing line to the next with minimal down time. I will condense the Sat AM class slightly to get us on the range the minute it is ready for us and get targets set up, then we will shoot the KD AQT from 100 to 400, with SOME sighters at 200, 300, & 400 yards. After that we will run backwards from 400 to 100 yards with NO sighters to see if you really did record your rifle's "DOPE" as instructed. We will use the "Hits Count" scoring system, by firing 50 rounds total (20 at 400) and it takes 40 in the black to make score - pass of fail.
If anyone has a physical limitation for packing in / out, we will make adjustments to ferry them forth and back. I would very much like to make this event a success and of value to all. It's going to take moving with a purpose to get more than a single FD AQT in, but if we do it right, we should be able to get in at least two, plus some time on the 600 yard line for thems who qualify to do so. They have an electronic scoring system that is pretty slick and will give a chance at getting accurate DOPE on your rifle.
Be sure to bring enough ammo of same make, model and lot #. Do NOT swap forth and back from one ammo to another or you'll lose valuable info and run into problems. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me. Also, please alert anyone who needs to see this post.
In Liberty,
PHenry
The biggest thing I see folks overpack is tools, food, and ammo during a "walking" AQT. How many PowerBars do you need? ;D
My interpretation of Phenry's guidance tells me to pack for the long range, at most:
3 sighters (max) at 200, 300, 400. 90 rounds
2 AQTs, less stage 1. 80 rounds
170 rounds on stripper clips, carry an extra spoon! Not much weight to carry. Police brass as we go, if line boss & range rules allow.
We can never have too much water. If range conditions permit us to run a support vehicle, I'd recommend packing coolers full of water there, plus a garbage bag to collect empties and refuse so we'll be welcome back.
So... for the weekends ammo:
Day 1
Sighters (4) / Stage 1 (2): 40 rounds
3 sighters (max) at 200, 300, 400. 90 rounds
2 AQTs, less stage 1. 80 rounds
Day 2 (your sighters are complete and you wrote down your data)
Stage 1 (2): 20 rounds
Stages 2/3/4 (2): 80 rounds
Total ammo requirement: 310 rounds, preferably on stripper clips.
in Liberty,
Maximum Ordnance (which is 310 round) **)
-MO
The Rifle Director will accompany us with his pickup truck containing the portable wifi for the e-targets. We can stage a cooler of water, trash bag and First Aid kit in his truck. There is a flush toilet in the Pits and a porta-john at 600 yard firing line.
Add to your kit a personal electronic device and spare battery for the e-target viewing.
Eye and ear protection are required.
For those who are not a PMRPC member:
If you plan to arrive Friday and want to tour the Range send me a message and call me upon arrival.
We will start at 8:00 am Saturday. Please arrive at the gate at 7:30. I will arrange to have someone there to let you in. The gate attendant doesn't show up until 8:00. We are beginning in Action Area Bay 2.
I suggest we meet at Sonny's BBQ on Malabar Road for dinner Saturday about 6:30. I will arrange a table for the number of folks registered for the event. Please let me know if you will have unregistered guests.
More administrative notes to follow as required.
Dennis
321-427-6959
What's the shooting surface at the firing line(s)? Do we need to bother with a mat?
Wreck
all grass from 100 - 500, unless raining and then it could be called "aquatic" in certain areas. 600 yard line is concrete.
Like the Labor Day event in 2011 when you and ItsanSKS came to Manchester, TN and it rained sideways till the target backers melted off the frames. ;D
I'll bring the mat.
Wreck
Oh I will never forget that one. Had an abscessed tooth from previous event in GA and figured if I could get through Sat night and all day Sunday, could get medical care on Monday. Well, that Monday was a holiday - nothing open other than ER and $15,000.00 is a lot to pay for a toothache - no matter how bad. By the Grace of God, TNColonel's daughter knew a dentist who called in a script for me.
I mostly sat in my truck moaning whilst the rest got soaked, but toughed it out to shoot KD on a cold, wet, miserable day on a beautiful military range. :~
Wreck: Yes, the mat is advisable. The "grass" is pretty sandy and sparse. Also, some red/fire ants. Sorry. No red clay to make you feel at home.
.
Sorry. That event has passed. Last month.