Jim's Quote of the Day:
"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude.
If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our calling and our creeds... [we will] have no time to think, no means of calling our miss-managers to account but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers... And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for [another ]...
till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery... And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression. - Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Samuel Kercheval, Monticello, July 12, 1816
Would you believe that Thomas Paine actually encouraged national debt in "Common Sense"? He thought it would create a bond of some sort. His intentions were good as he was trying to debunk all of the popular reasons for "reconciliation"
Now George Washington had a different opinion - he did not approve of any national debt. Check out his "Farewell to Congress" - a letter he wrote upon his departure from the Presidency. Also, in the next to the final paragraph - he apologized before God and the American people for all of the errors he surely made as President. He delineated virtually all of the problems American faces today - and he did so more then 230 years ago!
PH
Jefferson actually had a great sense of humor. Today we call it deadpan humor. Back then, he'd just pick up a horse pistol and expunge your debt.
Now there's a truth that has stood the test of time.
Jefferson also racked up more personal debt than almost anyone else in his time. He had quite a penchant for fanciness, books and scientific instruments and almost never paid outright for his material possessions, living nearly his entire life on the dole. This troubled him a great deal throughout his days, but never the less he was not able to ever bring under control his use of credit. Contrast that to John Adams.
Do as I say, not as I do.
_TheUpsetter
Most people don't realize how indebted most countries were in the late 18th century.
In 1765, the total tax revenue of the British Empire was 5 million pounds sterling. At the end of the 7 year war, the interest payments alone on the war debt were 4 million pounds per year. At the time that they passed the Stamp Tax, they were pretty desperate for revenue. The French and Spanish war debts were much worse.
Quote from: metalbot on December 11, 2008, 03:44:55 PM
Most people don't realize how indebted most countries were in the late 18th century.
In 1765, the total tax revenue of the British Empire was 5 million pounds sterling. At the end of the 7 year war, the interest payments alone on the war debt were 4 million pounds per year. At the time that they passed the Stamp Tax, they were pretty desperate for revenue. The French and Spanish war debts were much worse.
But indebted to who? That's the million dollar question... ;)
Quote from: WECSOG on December 11, 2008, 04:37:24 PM
Quote from: metalbot on December 11, 2008, 03:44:55 PM
Most people don't realize how indebted most countries were in the late 18th century.
In 1765, the total tax revenue of the British Empire was 5 million pounds sterling. At the end of the 7 year war, the interest payments alone on the war debt were 4 million pounds per year. At the time that they passed the Stamp Tax, they were pretty desperate for revenue. The French and Spanish war debts were much worse.
But indebted to who? That's the million dollar question... ;)
Primarily to dutch merchant houses. Very similar to modern situations where national debts are held by a country's trading partner...
Hmmmm....
There is a great bit of wisdom that we can glean from our Founding Fathers.
The hazard that we read and appreciate that wisdom, but not put it to action. Wisdom in a book, on a shelf, is great wisdom, but is worthless until read and applied.
Appleseed is the applied science of the Founders wisdom.
In this specific case, Jefferson has laid the map that debt can and is being used to destroy our Freedoms and Liberties, but it takes an effort, like the Appleseed effort, to get the American people to first seek this wisdom, then apply it.
Who is allowing this nation to incur such a very large debt?
The politicians in Washington? No, the people of the nation. As they sit on their butts, watching the "play offs", or whatever distraction that they chose to engage in, rather than tend to the cares of their nation, "bad men and women" are stealing their Heritage, and that of their children.
Until we wake them up, get them to find a way off of their couches, and to give a rat's butt about their nation, no great wisdom from the Founders is going to change a thing.
Appleseed = Founder's wisdom Applied.
Folks, learn the Founders wisdom, then use it to 'spirit you up' and to motivate others to get active and off their couches. Anything short of that is just a waste of good sense and wisdom, those precious gifts of our Founders.
"The Colonist....the talk much, but act little" (a paraphrase from Lord Percy, Morning of April 19th, 1775......the Morning of ....)
Depending on how the national debt and individual debt situations might worsen after the first-quarter 2009 numbers are revealed,(when traditionally reckless holiday spending is supposed to lift the already reckless spending-addicted economy over the hump) we might see the wake-up call that Ferfal has referred to.