My name is Kiwimonster, and I'm a liberal. Wow, it feels good to get that off my chest. I enjoyed reading Fred's post today about courting the blue people. I and my wife (also liberal) love shooting. It takes concentration, patience, and body control. Shooting is very analytical. Many people have firearms for personal protection, concern of public, or political unrest, or just plain love of shooting. Whoever said gun ownership was the right of conservatives only is mistaken. Representative Gabrielle Giffords, Democrat of Arizona, who was shot at an event in 2011, is an avid shooter. Even after her horrific event, she continues to shoot to this day. In fact, she lost the use of her right hand, so taught herself to shoot leftie. Her husband, an astronaut, shoots as well. I love going to Appleseeds. I am proud to be an IIT. I love to hear, and tell the stories of April 19. It's all about freedom. Freedom is something every American deserves. I get a little upset when I'm at an event, and someone talks about the left as if they're the devil. Like we don't want the best for our country. Funny thing is they're saying it to me, like I understand what they mean. Like I'm on their side. Little do they know, they're talking to the devil himself. However, I do see their side. I understand how they feel, and respect that. We live in such polarizing times. Left is pitted against Right. The reality is, if the media, and politicians would leave us the hell alone, most Americans would see we are all in the middle. We all want whats best for our family, and country. I truly enjoy my conversations with my conservative friends. It helps me to see all sides of a story. From that, I can make an informed choice. I am very glad my friend got me involved in Appleseed. It has made a positive impact on my life. I promise, I will do everything I can to bring as many of my liberal friends to Appleseeds as possible.
All who are down with the mission are welcome... Americans 1st... other labels 2nd... BeSwift
Appleseed is non-partisan. Getting people to exercise their right to participate in their government is the goal. As long as we citizens are bringing the debate forward among the people, and not sitting back to allow "professionals" - who enrich themselves from our tax dollars one way or another, corrupt the process, we are all doing what the Founders intended.
As an IIT1, you will be reading the Appleseed Manual. I want to point out Page 7 of the Appleseed Manual about Instructor Conduct.
10. No current politics. Yet another early conscious decision in the program - to avoid
references to any modern politics. The concept is cemented in our saying, "AS does not
care about elections - which, like the weather, are changeable. AS is about promoting
climate change, so that elections get better and better." This can be a tough one, as it will
sneak up on you. You may feel at an instructor's meeting that you can voice some
political biases, only to find out that others in the program do not share your views (note:
based on a personal experience!). So let's work to keep all current politics out of the
program.
And this is from TIPS - http://appleseedinfo.org/tips/faq.php
What about my personal beliefs or political opinions?
First, we're glad to hear that you have some! However, Appleseed has it own set of rules. Our mission is to awaken every American without regard to their beliefs or politics. That means that we don't talk about our beliefs and opinions at an event. In fact, the only politics we talk are those associated with the Revolutionary War. Otherwise, we let people make up their own minds after they become aware of their heritage and begin to feel the need to protect it and pass it on.
I am glad Appleseed has made a positive impact on your life and you want to bring your friends but I'm calling a "red light" on your post. Keep current politics out it.
LadyVetch
I don't care who you voted for.
I trust those who read history and practice marksmanship to make good decisions.
Ladyvtech. My post was in response to a post by Fred. I do not involve politics in my actions with appleseed. I was however moved by Fred post. I don't believe I was being political. While I referenced a current politician, it was to make a point that both sides like to and believe in the right to shoot. I also stated I have met folks in appleseed who have differing opinions (and are quite vocal at an AS) but are great to be around. If you feel I was touting politics, my apologies. That was the furthest thing from my mind. Yes, I have read the manual, and all the guidelines, and don't believe I broke any rules.
Kiwi,
Your post was just fine and Lady wasn't really calling you out. Stupid internet :P
She has heard plenty of my benedictions and the beauty of Appleseed is the students get to decide. Who cannot get the point of gun control starting the War? Who is so stupid as to not see all the bill of Rights being violated during the 3 strikes.
You can lead a horse to water...
Kiwi,
I consider myself a liberal also, but in the original meaning of the word. Patrick Henry and young Jefferson were liberals, meaning they believed in Liberty. Sadly, today, the words "conservative" and "liberal" are meaningless for all intents and purposes.
So long as we communicate and respect one another, all will be well. If we allow men who would king to "divide and conquer", keeping us at odds whilst they steal ever more of the fruits of our labors, then we will be slaves.
You're right Coly - stupid internet...
Appleseed is (or should be) more than the "labels" we put on ourselves and each other. Liberty is not "red" or "blue" or black or white or male or female or or or or...
I was trying to remind all of us - Fred included - of this. Kiwi - you shouldn't have felt the "need" to confess to being a liberal like it was something bad or not accepted. We all have common ground in our foundation. Appleseed is about awakening that revolutionary spirit that sleeps in every American.
If we were talking in person - I still would have said "red light" and given you Coly's benediction... :bow:
This is why I am glad we have the policy that we do because it truly does not matter where on the political spectrum we land.
This is also the reason we don't talk about modern people. That is where the red light would come in. It's that slope thing. We don't even go there because we want Appleseed to be friendly to everyone and modern things divide us. Sad but true.
I just wanted to make sure you knew as a new IIT what the Appleseed ideal is... It is Liberty and the events, people & politics of 1775. If the Appleseed customers have no idea what my political leanings are at the end of the weekend but still have that spirit of Liberty stirred within them... I've done my job well. That's the standard that Coly has taught me that I was trying (poorly :'( ) to pass onto you.
LadyVetch
Interesting thread.
The paragraph in the manual (referenced above)... well, I still remember reading it. I remember breathing a sigh of relief. At the time, in the back of my head, I still had some concern that this was some political front or something crazy like that. While I wont reveal my political leanings... I will say, that I tend to do precisely the opposite of anything you try to sell me on!! LOL. Some weird gene I was born with... My lovely wife doesn't like that gene... Anywhooo... I digress. So, I wasn't interesting in you trying to push your views, politics, or whatever on me. My ears turn off when I sense that.
That paragraph and the refreshing message and methods of AS is why I am still here. I would have quit a long time ago had it not been for that paragraph. I love freedom. I dont want to be sold anything. But, I totally buy in to the message that its important that I get involved. I get it now that I cant enjoy the fruits of our way of life without putting in some time. You guys sold me on that.. wait.. huh? Dangit - I was duped... %)
Quote from: PHenry on May 28, 2015, 09:52:38 AM
I consider myself a liberal also, but in the original meaning of the word. Patrick Henry and young Jefferson were liberals, meaning they believed in Liberty. Sadly, today, the words "conservative" and "liberal" are meaningless for all intents and purposes.
What PHenry said.
Lady Vetch was correct. It was not the place for me to write this. My apologies. I did not mean to push any agenda. Please chalk it up to a rookie mistake. I'm going to flag myself when I get home later.
I think you meant "flog myself"... :)
But there's no need to do that. Your original post was not pushing/promoting any agenda of any kind, politics-wise.
As I read it, you were simply pointing out that Appleseed is a big tent, and everyone is welcome - and that we leave our personal political beliefs (the modern ones, that is) outside the tent.
By pointing this out, you allowed/encouraged/stimulated others to make some good posts on this point.
Reading back on my OP, I slipped up and seemed to let "my" political slip show, with my reference to "the other side". I think I did this because most of us in this program prob fall toward one end of the spectrum than the other - which is why I made my post in the first place.
We need every American in this program.
Thanks again for the post, and don't flag (or flog) yourself for what turned out to be a good action on your part... O0
Yin and Yang. Life would be pretty boring if we all held the same beliefs and ideas. The key is to seek common ground and not sweat the little stuff.
In reading a book about Samuel Adams (John's older cousin), I am struck by that very idea. The original 13 colonies were quite disparate in many ways, but in one way, they were locked together in a manner not even a tyrant could break apart. Liberty was their guiding light. The most precious commodity any living thing owns. It was the call of Liberty that brung them together, allowing them to place their myriad differences aside.
The trouble is, most Americans today don't even know what Liberty means. As they was all born into it (relatively speaking), they presume it to be the default condition of humans. Lord of the Flies is of course closer to reality as the default condition of humans. Liberty is given to each thing at birth, but it is up to each living thing to keep it.
Our duty as Americans is to pass on the value of Liberty by teaching them how expensive it was to secure initially. To teach them that breathing comes second. No one can be expected to preserve inviolate, that which he does not value. We can only take them to the water, dunk their heads under and tickle their ribs - drinking is optional. ^-^
You would find California a great place to live ;)
I don't know what the word means. We're conditioned to sum up our philosophy with a generic word which can encompass any number of a wide variety of ideas. :)
Glad you're here. Keep pursuing Liberty. A wise man once told me, "Americans love freedom - it's the absence of restraint. What we need is Liberty - freedom with personal responsibility".
The right to keep and bear arms is the right of all living beings, and not just one party or the other. People are shocked and awed when I tell them a Democrat was the driving force in Illinois politics when it came to us getting concealed carry. As a gun community we need to be less caring about the "labels" that we put on ourselves and each other.
I also feel that all people whom identify themselves as republican or democrat, conservative, moderate or liberal need to be individuals first and think for themselves. All too often I hear people towing the party lines, repeating what they hear on CNN or FOX, without giving it a second thought. Neither party has all the answers.
QuoteNeither party has all the answers.
Will take that bet and raise you one more - I spect neither has any answers. ^-^
I don't know about you guys but I'm voting for Deez Nuts for prez. ^:)^ >:D
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/19/presidential-candidate-deez-nuts-does-not-exist.html
Quote from: PHenry on September 01, 2015, 12:54:56 PM
QuoteNeither party has all the answers.
Will take that bet and raise you one more - I spect neither has any answers. ^-^
Oh you're so good!
Quote from: scuzzy on September 01, 2015, 04:21:47 PM
I don't know about you guys but I'm voting for Deez Nuts for prez. ^:)^ >:D
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/19/presidential-candidate-deez-nuts-does-not-exist.html
Hah! You got me! My kids would be so proud. I used to play that game 20 years ago. Damned I am old!