Lets start by saying I have no clue what forum to put this in. I took a stab at it, but feel free to move it, or let me know where it belongs and Ill re post.
I have a buddy in the National Guard. Right after basic I talked him into taking a seed. He recently got accepted into a the LRS (same thing as on the movie "Long survivor") He got home a few days ago, and he called me. Apparently part of acceptance is re qualifying with a rifle. The instructor's made it clear to the class that this was their first time using this "new AQT" said "you guys wont have seen this before it's brand new for all of us" and showed the quick and dirty AQT. My buddy spoke up and mentioned he had shot it before, and the instructor ask "where at" and he said at a program called Appleseed.
Personally I think its pretty cool to see it come full circle so to speak.
pretty soon the "quick and dirty" will have to be deleted.
There are a number of Army, Reserve and National Guard marksmanship instructors who are or have been involved with Appleseed. Somewhere in the Instructor section are the AAR's for Milseeds at Ft. Stewart (one for SDM's run by Boltgun71 and one for the rest of that unit run by Son of Martha), one at White Sands, one for the 10th Mountain (I forget which Battalion and Brigade run by Boltgun71), and I think that there was one more. These ran in 2009, 2010, and 2011, I think.
But, Lone Survivor was a movie about a SEAL team. They were not National Guard. National Guard does have Long Range Surveillance Units. These units have a similar mission to LRRPs but are different.
Quote from: jmdavis on September 07, 2014, 01:20:26 AM
But, Lone Survivor was a movie about a SEAL team. They were not National Guard. National Guard does have Long Range Surveillance Units. These units have a similar mission to LRRPs but are different.
I know it was a SEAL team in the movie, my buddy said what they do is basically the same as what was done on the movie (obviously to less of a extreme). I don't know one way or the other, but I've never known my friend to lie.
Moral of the story was I thought it was cool that they incorporated the target in to training with no Appleseed presence.
The aqt is still used in the army but very rarely. When you can't get all the soldiers out to the KD range or pop up ranges they will run the aqt. The main difference when I was in was that it was all prone supported and prone unsupported. No standing or sitting. They also didn't give us times for each stage. Just time limits for supported then unsupported.
Honestly it would be a great thing for the army to start teaching older marksmanship fundamentals. Most of what they teach now is garbage. The marines are the only ones left who still teach true marksmanship. Unless you end up in a class like SDM or MLRM or sniper school.
It's very cool your buddy got in the program. I met him at your last shoot and he seemed like a good guy. Tell him to get as many schools as he can. Tell him congrats.
I thought that the alt C was the current qualification target for reduced range.
(http://www.inrangesupplies.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/0/30_11_534_3.jpg)
Would there happen to be a downloadable copy of the above target available?
I think that there is, but I can't say for sure where it is. I do not have one, but I have seen them online. You could always scale that one up.
Here's a link to where you can download the target in 4 parts.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=615592
Last month we had a young woman in uniform -- regular Army, in an admin MOS -- drop in for help with upcoming M16 quals. (AAR is here (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=42308.msg300328#msg300328).)
We ran her through some AQTs but, like mentioned above, it wasn't entirely relevant for her. Her own quals consisted of kneeling position, unsupported prone, and supported prone. She also apparently had been shown some other nonstandard barricade technique. But non-kneeling seated and standing were totally new to her.
Since her biggest issue was simple weapon familiarity, not really so much of a technique thing, I opted to have her shoot the AQT our way anyway, just to gain some more confidence in her abilities. But in general I would not expect our AQT to translate terribly well to Army requirements, and there's no reason it should have to.
However, if there's folks in the Army who like what we're doing and are adopting it, that's awesome. O0 Whatever we can do to help.
jmdavis you are the best!!!!! :--- :--- :--- :--- :---
I got them thank you!!!
I believe those targets are available from Fred's M-14 stocks. The one military surplus store near me is selling them as Appleseed Targets.
I don't think that Fred's sells the ALT-C. He does have the original AQT (2 pages) and the Q&D AQT as well as the other standard AS targets.
Quote from: jmdavis on September 07, 2014, 08:35:31 PM
I thought that the alt C was the current qualification target for reduced range.
(http://www.inrangesupplies.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/0/30_11_534_3.jpg)
This is not the target he used. He used the EXACT target we use at appleseed (we all know what they look like) That is what I found interesting.
We shot that Alt-C in the Air Force for quals. 10rds each from standing over barricade, kneeling supported, prone unsupported and prone supported. There were a few mag changes involved but time for each stage was 90 seconds. Looking back on it, the AQT is way harder!
I understand that the aqt was used. The alt c is the official reduced range qualification target for the army, reserve, and national guard. A number of military marksmanship instructors have experience with Appleseed as instructors or students. It used to be relatively common to see military personnel at Appleseeds in VA, NC, and GA. It may still be common. Two of the IITs from my first AS we're boltgun71 and Sgtcap. Both were active duty at the time.
Quote from: jmdavis on September 07, 2014, 08:35:31 PM
I thought that the alt C was the current qualification target for reduced range.
(http://www.inrangesupplies.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/0/30_11_534_3.jpg)
I have a box of about 300 of those.
You can buy ALT-Cs and official M16 and M4 sight-in targets here:
http://www.Pistoleer™.com/shooting-targets/competition/
The other milseed was the one that ItsanSKS led for the Alaska National Guard. They were qualifying on ALT-Cs the following day (and all did so, some as expert! O0 )
^ nice list of targets. I wish I still had a D sheet printer. I'd be burning it up. ;)
You did her a big favor if she learned npoa, 6 steps for taking a shot/rifleman's bubble. The biggest issue is the sling, she may or may not get one to quality with. Prone unsupported is equivalent to what we do in AS, prone supported is easier as she can rest the rifle on a sand bag. Kneeling is one of our options, the army finds this to be a more combat effective position because it makes moving on more efficient. Learning how to remain calm and confident behind the rifle under artificial (or real) stress is the secret sauce of AS marksmanship IMHO. If she understands the basics she will qualify; if she finds the bubble her peers will take notice.
Thanks for supporting the troops Rocket Man!
LS6
Quote from: Rocket Man on September 07, 2014, 09:18:51 PM
Last month we had a young woman in uniform -- regular Army, in an admin MOS -- drop in for help with upcoming M16 quals. (AAR is here (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=42308.msg300328#msg300328).)
We ran her through some AQTs but, like mentioned above, it wasn't entirely relevant for her. Her own quals consisted of kneeling position, unsupported prone, and supported prone. She also apparently had been shown some other nonstandard barricade technique. But non-kneeling seated and standing were totally new to her.
Since her biggest issue was simple weapon familiarity, not really so much of a technique thing, I opted to have her shoot the AQT our way anyway, just to gain some more confidence in her abilities. But in general I would not expect our AQT to translate terribly well to Army requirements, and there's no reason it should have to.
However, if there's folks in the Army who like what we're doing and are adopting it, that's awesome. O0 Whatever we can do to help.
you would be surprised how few units are teaching the use of a sling to shoot with. Except in the Marines.