So Coly Cat help dig up a thought that was rolling around in my minds cellar.
Question: How do we Sell - Becoming an AS Instructor
Is it possible? I need engaged minds, I need help.
Here is what I want to do: I want to send a mass email out across the state asking All Calgunners and CRPA Members and NRA MC members and any email list I can get in my hands and sell becoming an instructor.
I saw this on the AS board:
(start here) http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?board=12.0
(interesting one) http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=14818.0
My thought is take something like the above examples, put it in an email and send it to to 200k + Cali's, 2 or 3 times a year and see what happens.
Include the calendar my Calguns and CRPA teams are working up, the has AS dates and places and send them to a place to ask question (Calguns board) and hopefully add numbers to the lines and add instructors to the cadre.
So I need help coming up with the words for: How do we Sell - Becoming an AS Instructor?
The following may be a silly idea, PD. Oh, did I mention I have no people skills? ++)
For other groups (auto racing is what I have some knowledge of) mailing lists can be purchased for the purpose of mass mailing. Response rate is quite low in my limited experience, below 1 percent. But that still amounts to a fair number of people.
If what you are looking for are instructors for the purpose of expansion, rather than just happy students who want to learn to shoot better, perhaps mass mailing to club members, customer lists, or what ever relevant lists there are would be productive. Advertise for instructors, rather than participant or student.
The mailer could be to the effect of: "Appleseed's Marksmanship and History programs are expanding rapidly and we are in need of more instructors! Appleseeds' mission is..... Contact us if you would like to be a part of our growing family blah blah...."
If I understand correctly, existing marketing relies on getting folks to events based upon opportunity to learn. Maybe there are a bunch of folks out there that already know (or think they know), and the idea of teaching would appeal.
It may be the case that there are a bunch of folks out there already somewhat qualified to instruct, and would be on board for the rest of the AS message. If they are, then great. Sign em up. If they are not already mostly qualified, well then they still go through the program same as anyone else.
This could work well in areas that are busy, full shoots, etc. Probably not so much in areas that need to be built from the ground up.
Good thread here O0
We expect the mission of saving liberty to be the motivating factor of those wanting to instruct .
The fact instructing is even more fun than shooting is an added benefit to having folks advance.
Many of us are certified instructors with NRA , and unfortunately the RWVA is mission specific , to where an AS IIT RH coukld teach marksmanship at an NRA event , the opposite is not the case .
So every RWVA instuctor knows exactly what each future Rifleman is going through .
Thanx for your interest and keep up the good work . The 7th step is particulairly valuable in getting new RM --Hence IIITs
Point of clarity: The email list I am referencing are specific to the California shooting community.
Quote from: KnowFear on March 23, 2012, 11:31:11 PM
The following may be a silly idea, PD. Oh, did I mention I have no people skills? ++)
For other groups (auto racing is what I have some knowledge of) mailing lists can be purchased for the purpose of mass mailing. Response rate is quite low in my limited experience, below 1 percent. But that still amounts to a fair number of people.
If what you are looking for are instructors for the purpose of expansion, rather than just happy students who want to learn to shoot better, perhaps mass mailing to club members, customer lists, or what ever relevant lists there are would be productive. Advertise for instructors, rather than participant or student.
The mailer could be to the effect of: "Appleseed's Marksmanship and History programs are expanding rapidly and we are in need of more instructors! Appleseeds' mission is..... Contact us if you would like to be a part of our growing family blah blah...."
If I understand correctly, existing marketing relies on getting folks to events based upon opportunity to learn. Maybe there are a bunch of folks out there that already know (or think they know), and the idea of teaching would appeal.
It may be the case that there are a bunch of folks out there already somewhat qualified to instruct, and would be on board for the rest of the AS message. If they are, then great. Sign em up. If they are not already mostly qualified, well then they still go through the program same as anyone else.
This could work well in areas that are busy, full shoots, etc. Probably not so much in areas that need to be built from the ground up.
I like your reasoning on this, I get the feeling you have a very solid thought here.
Quote from: pennys dad on March 24, 2012, 02:30:12 AM
Point of clarity: The email list I am referencing are specific to the California shooting community.
This idea seems to have generated some blow back on the Calguns board.
You may want to think twice about anything that could be perceived as spam, as it will impinge on the reputation of the entire program, not just you or even the California contingent.
I'm thinking superbowl ad next year :slap: jk. bad idea
IDK what RWVA's budget looks like, how much in donations, or whatever else.. but i think a short raidio ad or a small billboard for a month would be worth looking at. a one month trial. idk. just spitballin. Ive notices a falloff too. Fresno's attendance was REALLY good the first time I went to an appleseed. ever since its been less. this weekend i think 3-6 people registered? we cut the number of events down too because last year attendence was really poor. our SB has to drive 2 hrs from lemoore so it's probably kind of tough to see only 2-4 people show up. Or when DesertDog drives 3 hrs if dave cant make it.
I invited like 150 some people to AS this weekend and only 4 said maybe. 2 said yes. 1 backed out. 1:149 is the ratio. :/ :'( makes me sad.
Edit:
I guess I just think that in order to have more instructors, you have to have people to COME to Appleseed in the first place, score rifleman, so they can be instructors. Attendance is more important I think. I know ranges in the big areas don't really have a problem with it, but Fresno sure seems to.
I think the only truly effective way to get riflemen to sign up is for the instructors to hard sell at events. As soon as someone shoots rifleman, instructors should start talking to that person about instructing. If they and the SB have done their jobs throughout the weekend, it should be pretty easy to convince them.
-So the ability to shoot a score of 210 on an AQT is the only stipulation to become an Instructor?
-Can someone become an Instructor without shooting a 210?
-Does the true stipulation of becoming an Instructor have 2 parts?
A: A standard of shooting
B: The shoot boss's discretion
-If so, how do we ensure that some shoot boss's standards of discretion aren't far lower than others?
-Does the true stipulation have other parts?
-Is shooting a 210 once good enough?
-What happens when an instructor no longer meets the standard of shooting?
-Do we have measures in place to ensure this doesn't happen and do we continue to test the standard?
-What happens when an instructor no longer meets the standards of instructing to the level that he/she has reached?
-Do we have measures in place to ensure this doesn't happen and do we continue to test the standard?
--
I know the answers to some of these, others have no "official" policies in place, and others certain people would ensure a policy is never made.
As for Calgunners and the idea of sending mass emails to have them be instructors, it is my opinion that this is a horrid idea.
To be a Calgunner requires...nothing but a few minutes to register. To be an AS instructor requires much more.
As for Appleseeders becoming instructors, I'm all for it. As for filling the lines with Calgunners, I'm all for that too. But advertising has to be done in such a way to not bring discredit to the organization.
Here is a suggestion, when someone contacts a local Shoot Boss 3 times about becoming an instructor, try calling back.
I have lost all interest in becoming an instructor because no one replied to my requst for infromation.
Quote from: CTShooter on March 29, 2012, 08:10:57 PM
Here is a suggestion, when someone contacts a local Shoot Boss 3 times about becoming an instructor, try calling back.
I have lost all interest in becoming an instructor because no one replied to my requst for infromation.
Well that would be a good start I imagine.
Quote from: CTShooter on March 29, 2012, 08:10:57 PM
Here is a suggestion, when someone contacts a local Shoot Boss 3 times about becoming an instructor, try calling back.
I have lost all interest in becoming an instructor because no one replied to my requst for infromation.
CTShooter,
Sorry for the lack of response on our part. In the IIT/Instructor FAQs there is a role for a person called the "Seventh Step Coordinator." This person is assigned his/her role at the beginning of a shoot by the Shoot Boss and they are supposed to look for opportunities to recruit instructors and informally encourage and teach shooters how to promote Project Appleseed and bring others to the firing line. The Shoot Boss has several responsibilities so their plate is very full at a shoot.
I hope you would reconsider. I have been an IIT for a few months and Project Appleseed is a very worthwhile project to invest yourself into, but be sure to do it for the right reasons - to help save the sinking ship called America and wake people up to their heritage.
Sincerely,
- ShadowMan
I am an NRA Certified instructor, Pistol, rifle, muzzleloader and metalic reloading. NRA RSO,
IDPA SO , Certified American Heart Associaton Instructor, State DEP Firearms and Archery instructor.
I believe I am teaching the right things for the right reason. It would seem to me those qualifications would be something Appleseed would have a interest in.
Quote from: CTShooter on March 29, 2012, 08:40:37 PM
I am an NRA Certified instructor, Pistol, rifle, muzzleloader and metalic reloading. NRA RSO,
IDPA SO , Certified American Heart Associaton Instructor, State DEP Firearms and Archery instructor.
I believe I am teaching the right things for the right reason. It would seem to me those qualifications would be something Appleseed would have a interest in.
How unfortunate! I suggest you post something about that in your state board:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?board=182.0 (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?board=182.0)
Or you can continue discussing it with Shadowman in Washington:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?board=222.0 (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?board=222.0)
We have about 3000 miles of different demographics, social diversity, and specific State problems between us. If you'd like I'm sure someone can forward the message for you.
I posted on this thread because you wanted to know what the problems were in getting instructors.
I shared my experience, how your organization chooses to deal with this issue is up to you.
Quote from: CTShooter on March 29, 2012, 08:10:57 PM
Here is a suggestion, when someone contacts a local Shoot Boss 3 times about becoming an instructor, try calling back.
I have lost all interest in becoming an instructor because no one replied to my requst for infromation.
This was my situation as well. It was very frustrating, but I pushed through it and worked my first shoot this February. It's well worth it, and I would encourage you to contact your state coordinator. That's assuming you meet all the other requirements for becoming an instructor (2 AS shoots as student, scored 210 or higher). If nothing else just show up at the next local shoot and tell the SB you want your orange hat.
Quote from: CTShooter on March 29, 2012, 09:07:23 PM
I posted on this thread because you wanted to know what the problems were in getting instructors.
I shared my experience, how your organization chooses to deal with this issue is up to you.
Thanks for sharing your experience. We can't fix a communication gap if we don't know one exists.
Regards,
- ShadowMan
Dear CTShooter, you have an impressive list of qualifications but I did not see Rifleman on that list. A rifleman is not just someone who has shot a score of 210 or higher. No sir, a rifleman is persistant and never gives up. I dare say the challenge of getting someone to reply to you is minuscule compared to the momentous task that Appleseed instructors take on in trying to wake up apathetic Americans. Oh--- you thought it was about rifle marksmanship. My mistake. My suggestion, move to Texas. We'll get you teaching rifle marksmanship and telling history in no time. Best regards, Two Wolves.
We also have the highest paid instructors.
First Appleseed Rifleman 227
I understand the program, I spent 2 years researching it before I decided I wanted to persue becoming an instructor, and posting here was what I thought was a way to bring a communication issue to your (Appleseeds) attention in my attempt to continue the path to be an instructor. If I had just given up, I would have never followed up here.
Thank you so much for your condescending reply. Insults are great way to make people feel welcome.
CTShooter, I think what Two Wolves is saying is that in order for you to be a valuable asset to the Appleseed program, you don't have to have an impressive resume, but perseverance and a humble, willing attitude. Just because you're a high-class shooting instructor with a lot of certifications doesn't mean you "get" the point of Appleseed. As Two Wolves said, Appleseed is NOT a marksmanship program. That's just the hook to draw people in so we can try to wake them up to the peril our nation is in and show them how they can do something meaningful about it. Heritage first. Always. You say you spent two years researching the program, but you conspicuously avoid mentioning how many shoots you've attended, or how well you scored. As I said before, make sure you meet the requirements of an instructor, then just show up at a shoot ready to pass out packets and stand in the sun for 6 hours as a Line Boss. If you aren't prepared to handle that tedium then you're not ready to be an instructor. I don't mean to offend or insult, but that's the reality of saving the nation. I dare you to find out whether you've got what it takes. I hope you take the challenge and I get to work a shoot with you someday.
Reread my post, I scored a 227.
I attended 1 so far(and yes I know the requirments to become an instructor is to attend 2), and my point was before I continued and invested the substantial amount of time required to become an instructor, I wanted to talk to our local "in charge type" to review somethings I had questions about.
If I am going volunteer, I want a complete understanding and questions answered before I invest the time. I do not think that is at all an unreasonable request.
I know what is going on in our country, again, I did the research, I understand the program, it's reasons and purpose. That is why I attended an Appleseed, and decided to follow up as becoming an instructor.
If someone attempts to make a local contact about becoming a volunteer instructor, something you claim to want, it would seem to me, you would make some effort to contact that person, answer his questions and assist him in the process.
What I find interesting is , no one here said anything like "welcome, glad your looking at becoming a volunteer, how can we help?"
Quote from: aragornelessar86 on March 30, 2012, 02:52:14 PM
I hope you take the challenge and I get to work a shoot with you someday.
;)
Quote from: CTShooter on March 30, 2012, 06:36:35 PM
What I find interesting is , no one here said anything like "welcome, glad your looking at becoming a volunteer, how can we help?"
I dunno... Looks to me like Justin pretty much did just that:
Quote from: Justin on March 29, 2012, 08:58:08 PM
How unfortunate! I suggest you post something about that in your state board:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?board=182.0 (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?board=182.0)
Or you can continue discussing it with Shadowman in Washington:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?board=222.0 (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?board=222.0)
We have about 3000 miles of different demographics, social diversity, and specific State problems between us. If you'd like I'm sure someone can forward the message for you.
If you're actually looking for information, he's pointed you to where you're going to be able to get answers. Otherwise, please remember that negative attitudes really aren't productive. We appreciate you pointing out that there was a break down in communication. If you care to provide information regarding your issues contacting an instructor, one of us can look into what happened.
Remember as well that this is a 100% volunteer organization and most of our instructors have families, full-time jobs and numerous responsibilities on top of the incredible amount of time they put in for Appleseeds. Occasionally, some things do fall through the cracks.
Well, to get this back on a footing that is more in line with the original post.
I am assuming (I know bad on me) that about 20% of the people that score rifleman take on an orange hat. 20% of those stay to Red, and 20% of those become Shoot bosses or keep instructing regularly after 2~3 year. (I have no basis for these numbers other then observing over the course of 5 AS shoots).
What I think are the best ways, why I am here.
1. Harp on the aspect of Civic involvement during the history Adams, Handcock, Paul Revere, Dr. Joseph Warren...All belonged to many "civic" groups. Harp on the getting involved in your community, clubs and other organisations.
2. Have as much of the crew of the events not be locals as possible while not degrading the quality of the event. While it sounds odd, if there seems like there is a need for people, shoot bosses, instructors, instructors in training driving more than 2 hours for a shoot, it leads one to believe that the organization needs you. If everyone is local, then they are fine and they will be around with or without me.
3. Ask every return shooter you recognize (who you think capable) if they are thinking of taking on a hat, the shooting is the least of what we do, making people know they are wanted, and their help would be appreciated.
4. Stagger large sets of pics onto the forum AAR. and remind people to visit the AAR sometime in the middle of the week, pics should be up.
5. It sometimes helps when all the instructors keep the conversation going on the AAR, and slowly try to take it to the state forum...include your AS participants into the community, more likely they will want to contribute.
6. Promote that everyone should try to stay in touch, perhaps even if it is to shoot a few rounds at the range and want someone to see how your steady hold factors are, or your trigger work.
7. Get more people to the events = More riflemen = More Orange Hats =More Red Hats = more events.
8. Lastly, we have to be responsive to PMs. 24 hours at most to a first time PM on the forum, specially right after an AS. If they are constantly asking things, then lead them to the correct areas on the forum, and take more time in responding till you ignore it for a week. (I have never had an issue with it in AS). As an instructor/shootboss you are their only real contact into the community. You are Apple Seed!!!
good post PaxxAZ O0
Your post reminded me of trying to mention attendee's attend events in different locations .
AS in another state makes makes a great vacation destination and our national program has lots of fantastic legends that are SBs in every state .
We of course honored you are here and will be honored to have you back ,but keep AS within your travel plans too ;D