You all have seen poor safety, poor judgement and poor handling of rifles and pistols at various guns shows.
We all know how mindful we are and how jealous we are of our safety program and our rules for making a rifle safe.
Appleseed is fastidious about safety and we drill it and drill it home constantly. However you can't fix stupid
but you can prevent rifle sabotage. How many times we have seen people point rifles or pistols at gun shows
and/or gun stores? There is nothing more abysmal than ignorance in action.
An tragic event occurred this morning at or around 11:00 AM in Bloomington, IL at a gun show where which
we have staffed with a superb crew of instructors around our table. At a distance of about 60 feet away from
our table on a different aisle, I understand, a mini-14 .223 round was suddenly discharged in the building
at some vendor's table. The aisles were packed with people, wall to wall through out the whole venue.
The .223 round apparently was shot through a man's chest, exiting and ricocheting off a steel beam or post,
I understand, and struck another man through his shoulder or arm, I don't know exactly, but roomer has it,
based on a paramedic's comment, that this second man was on blood thinners which makes him a high risk
bleed out. I just got a call from the folks at the show to say that the condition of these two man (in their late fourties)
is doubtful. It is said they are not expected to survive.
The gun show host will have enormous ramifications over this and of course this is Illinois. There is a roomer purporting
that a live round may have been inserted buy a nut job from 'the anti crowd.' Who knows for sure. Some think it to be credible.
One vendor was quoted as saying this is the fifth or sixth time he has been present during a live round discharge at a gun show.
I have heard the same thing from a good guy who comes up regulary from Georgia to attend these events.
The police have an an area quarantined for the moment, treating it of course as a crime scene, to facilitate their
investigation. Unfortunately our show and display table is out of bounds for now until their business has been completed.
However, the show continues and will likely continue throughout the remainder of the day and tomorrow.
Up until this point in time it has been a great success for our hard working crew who are all ok and thank God were not injured
and for them everything is fine. But a very sobering experience for them. You know they are going to be Appleseed Preachers
of Safety for every gun show from here to eternity. So sad for the two men and their families. You just never know.
This event might have been prevented if every rifle followed Appleseed safety protocols. This is something that happens
when our guard is let down. IT cannot happen ever on our watch that is for sure. It proves why every American needs
to go through an Appleseed program. Why every rifle in a gun show is not zipped ty'd or chamber flagged is beyond me.
Appleseed has another reason to get people out to our events. This is a excellent opportunity for our own Appleseed media
folks to publish an article in the Bloomington Pantagraph and Peoria Journal Star papers about Appleseeds safety instruction
and strike while the iron hot. You know the media are going to.
But if an agent saboteur inserted this round, I pray that scum be found. I have read 'Enemies Foreign and Domestic' and have my suspicions
as to the timing of this event. We shall see what that media piranha do with this to satisfy the lust of the left wing nut jobs.
All I can say is safety first, safety firt safety, safety, safety. I am looking forward to our crews after action report when the show is finished.
But out of concern for those of you getting ready to do gun shows, I am mindful of Ohio's efforts as well as Michigan
and Wisconsin, I am just giving you folks a heads up on this.
The good of this event is that we have enjoyed a great interest in what we are doing. Large crowds and s seriously keen interest
in Appleseed is being enjoyed and effectively addressed by our fine crew. People love the new posters and fliers by the way.
Best regards,
Castle Mountain
Thanks CM. It just hit the news feeds:
Accidental shooting at gun show leaves 2 men hurt (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-accidental-shooting-at-gun-show-leaves-2-men-hurt-20110226,0,2442947.story?track=rss)
Glad no one else was hurt and have sent prayers for those that were.
Very tragic...sad to hear that.
This will make me very mindful of others at gun shows who feel the need to swipe me with the muzzle of their gun here in WI.
B5
Holy cow - I'm glad everyone working the Appleseed table is safe, and it's too bad that events such as these happen at all. You're right, CM - Appleseed has lots of work to do. We know we can save this Nation, but we should also take pride in the fact that we can help save lives in this Nation by teaching firearm safety. Take care, all.
Do the promoter a favor and Stop at your local DIY store on your way in tomorrow. Pick up a couple of bundles of the largest wire ties they have in the electrical dept (if they have red or orange, even better). Tell him that every gun at the show should have actions open and a wire tie through the action to make sure that it doesn't close, and that all guns should be inspected as they come into the show/are put on display. That is the method used here at our gun shows. Sure it takes a bit longer to set the show up, and requires extra security at the door, but safety is paramount.
Thanks for both Tech. It would be great if you were able to write and publish an article to these papers
as to why folks need Appleseed for safety as well as marksmanship
CM
Quote from: techres on February 26, 2011, 05:33:13 PM
Thanks CM. It just hit the news feeds:
Accidental shooting at gun show leaves 2 men hurt (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-accidental-shooting-at-gun-show-leaves-2-men-hurt-20110226,0,2442947.story?track=rss)
Glad no one else was hurt and have sent prayers for those that were.
Thanksfor the update CM. As always a safety reminder is a good thing so people do not get complacent.
Our shows in Minnesota require a ty-wrap (zip tie) to ensure bolts are inoperable. Same goes with handguns. Mandated by whom...I know not, but a good safety feature.
I do know ties can be cut for an individual to inspect a firearm, however it MUST be replaced as soon as the firearm is handed back to the vendor. Unfortunately I have seen some lax practices in this regard.
Well, AK and I are just back from the Bloomington gun show and it was certainly a tragic day. We at the Appleseed table were all of 60 feet from the occurence and I was the senior Instructor. I have no further information as to how a loaded rifle was on the vendor table. The rifle in question was a Ruger Mini-14 with the mag out but a round chambered. The word at the scene was that the "handler" dropped the rifle and it discharged. I am inclined to believe that based upon the bullet path as marked by the crime scene investigators. We had people two deep at our table and did not see the occurence. However, the retort of a .223 in a closed room followed by screams to call 911 was horrible. The chest wound was a ghastly entry and exit wound.
It will take me a while to fully collect my thoughts but two things seem clear. First, any Appleseeder who is getting burned out or doubtful of their time investment need only see what I saw to be reassured that what we are doing is ESSENTIAL. The shooting public has to be instructed to a higher level of safety. I hammered this point hard after the accident and the attendees had no trouble grasping that aspect of our organization. Second, Instructors at all levels have to redouble their attention to safety detail. Such an occurence at an Appleseed would prove difficullt or impossible for the involved Instructors and Appleseed to recover from.
Thoughts and prayers out to the families of the injured, and Thank God You fine folks were OK.
:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:GOD I was a little to close to the action today. the bullet went through a 6-8 inch wood post, then a guys arm and then into another guys torso area. the post prevented the injury of a lot of people including some appleseeders. take a moment and pray for the two guys injured and take another moment and reflect on your family and friends. life is precious.
Let me suggest that we bring our First Aid / blowout kits to future gun show appearances...
Best wishes for the unfortunate injured folks. Also to anyone who feels unusually shaken up about this, post-traumatic stress disorder is real. Help is available, don't wait.
Glad our crew was safe. Incidents like this only reinforce the fact that we as a people have been lax about discharging the RESPONSIBILITY attendant with our rights. We must keep them, we must defend them, we must accept and unswervingly discharge our responsibility. Our message is needed.
I found out about Appleseed this morning at the gun show in Bloomington (before the defecation struck the rotary oscillator). Wouldn't surprise me if some anti-gunner pulled this stunt on purpose considering the IL concealed carry law is supposed to go to committee on the 1st of March. They'll do anything to try and stop it from happening. Desperate people do desperate (and stupid) things. Guns don't just "go off" accidentally. Especially at gun shows when they check everything that comes in at the door. I pray for the people hurt and that whoever was responsible is punished to the full extent of the law.
So the show is still on? I was going to work the show Sunday afternoon.
The show apparently is going on. There was no indication to the contrary.
I work the tables for a local vendor at gunshows here in SE Idaho. There is no real way to completely enforce safe handling of the firearms, and it would be adverse to sales to prohibit inspection and handling by potential customers. That being said, we scrupulously inspect all rifles, shotguns and pistols during setup and all are disabled/immobilized with nylon wire ties, which takes a good bit of set-up time, but worth every minute. (Side note, all magazines are removed, too - as these tend to "disappear" during crowded conditions.) My friend who owns the business has on several occasions over the years found a live round "slipped into" a firearm on display at a gunshow and even once or twice in his shop. There is also an LEO or security officer at the entrance to inspect and wire tie all guns coming into the show for sale or trade by attendees. I don't know if it is specifically anti-gunners or just unstable individuals (aren't they pretty much the same?), but an absolutely necessary precaution and practice. If a customer really must work the action or inspect the bore, the wire tie is cut, the desired inspection is performed under supervision and the firearm is reinspected and re-tied before it goes back on the tables. Prayers for the injured, and also for the resistance to knee-jerk legislation when gun shows are already under attack.
You provoke my thoughts ID_Hezekiah. As one professor said to me, nothing learned except as thoughts are provoked. O0
I think of Appleseed possibilities 'always'! At a gun show we have all seen the ignorant miss handling of fire arms etc.
What if Appleseed (this is providing you have enough staff on hand) offered to the show sponsor to have Appleseed instructors
reconnoiter the gun show tables looking for safety violations and pointing those out to the show manager? This would be a great service
in exchange for our being given free booth space so often.
Moreover, perhaps, Appleseed instructors could be given opportunity to grab the public PA system and address the gun show crowds of Appleseed safe handling
of rifle protocols during the venues. What if we took the initiative and operated as safety officers at gun shows and any violation we witnessed immediately sent an
Appleseed instructor/s over to address the persons displaying the ignorant handling of a fire arm and educated them right there on the spot of the safety rules
right at the beginning of the shows safety meeting for distribution for all the vendors tables?
What if ( I think we have thousands of the things) went to all the tables and offered chamber flags
and also the front door gateway rifle inspectors who check carry in rifles to make it mandatory a chamber flag be inserted or ty wrap before entry
and also suggest that any show rifle that does not have a chamber flag inserted should be considered loaded. If such chamber flags had Project Appleseed
stamped on them it would be a plus marketing tool at gun shows and make people more aware of us nationally. What would a bag of 1000 or 1500 chamber flags
cost.
Just thinking out side the box here. Go ahead and chime in on this. Perhaps it might spawn even better ideas.
Best regards
Castle Mountain
I like your thinking CM! Safety Rule #4: "Make sure those around you follow the safety rules." It would be a good endorsement for the program if we we're to practice what we preach, even at the shows. I think we should at least make it an AS practice to secure the chambers of all rifles on display at our tables with at least a cable tie if not a lock.
I was at the show yesterday and heard all the gossip. I guess I'm left thinking that blaming an anti-gunner is too convenient. While I have no doubt there are sicko's out there who would do something like this, I also have no doubt that exhibitors make mistakes. Regardless, strict safety rules would go a long way to ensuring exhibitors eliminate their mistakes, and would help catch the sicko's in the act. Even yesterday, I had my eye on a dude that walked-up to the table next to us and started handling a handgun in the absence of the vendor and without showing a FOID. It made me realize that all the guns need to be secured somehow (which they were yesterday, with wire ties).
One last thought for you all to consider. I was talking with a salesman about kevlar vests/body armour a year ago. I ask simply, "why would I need something like this." His answer was that a lot of people wear vests to the range or shows because it protects from the careless mistakes of others. I took this answer for granted - until yesterday. If your going to be at a lot of shows, maybe it makes sense to invest in a vest.
Quote from: Gravy on February 28, 2011, 11:19:32 AM
One last thought for you all to consider. I was talking with a salesman about kevlar vests/body armour a year ago. I ask simply, "why would I need something like this." His answer was that a lot of people wear vests to the range or shows because it protects from the careless mistakes of others. I took this answer for granted - until yesterday. If your going to be at a lot of shows, maybe it makes sense to invest in a vest.
I like the idea, but the only problem is that body armor/kevlar is so expensive. About $700-$800 for one. But still, if one has the cash to drop on that, good idea.
Quote from: JustJeff on February 26, 2011, 07:16:10 PM
Do the promoter a favor and Stop at your local DIY store on your way in tomorrow. Pick up a couple of bundles of the largest wire ties they have in the electrical dept (if they have red or orange, even better). Tell him that every gun at the show should have actions open and a wire tie through the action to make sure that it doesn't close, and that all guns should be inspected as they come into the show/are put on display.
This is what is done at every gunshow out here in MA - don't they do it that way in IL?
Videos from YouTube: Not my videos.
One minute after accidental discharge at Bloomington Gun Show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbBzKpL4n44
Victim of .223 gets carted out of Gun Show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnefE1MFbJI
Victim of wood splinters from accidental discharge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf2RK_vipaw
Here in Ohio we have to have a zip tie in the action and I have never seen one accidentally discharge. I ran the gunshow last weekend here in Ohio and saw a few folks who needed some gun safety. Being an Auction goer I see a lot of gun auctions and even more people that shouldn't handle guns. I've had to take guns out of some people's hands because they were actually pointing them at people with out checking the action. It's a shame that most Americans cant or wont handle guns responsibly/properly.
Doug :---
Hello Group; Team Illinois, Please see addition to gun show protocol, (Chamber Flags in LTR`s)..... Pappy
I will repeat, go take the Red Cross first aid program:
"1.www.redcross.org select: preparing and getting trained select: get trained enter zip code here (yours) select: visit their website select: enter it select: courses
select: adult, infant, and child CPR/AED/First Aid(Community) select: download or save "
Like Rocket Man noted, have your first aid kit with you.
Read this: http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=102.msg535#msg535 it gives you decent information.
IF you're not able to assist the patients then help organize a clear route to them for the incoming emergency crew.
I'd also suggest maybe having this info if able, it can save time...at the bottom is a form that I developed/not officially AS approved (and carry a few copies to every event I'm at):
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=13418.0
IF you're really interested in the subject let me know and I'll see if I can find the info I've got stored somewhere...~two years old in several shooting mags...that told of a place in the South where there was a weeklong class that trained you to shoot as a 3 man team and treat the injuries you'd probably see....nasal trumpet/pleural decompression/etc.
CSHR
Quote from: CSHR on March 01, 2011, 09:25:14 PM
I will repeat, go take the Red Cross first aid program:
"1.www.redcross.org select: preparing and getting trained select: get trained enter zip code here (yours) select: visit their website select: enter it select: courses
select: adult, infant, and child CPR/AED/First Aid(Community) select: download or save "
Like Rocket Man noted, have your first aid kit with you.
Read this: http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=102.msg535#msg535 it gives you decent information.
IF you're not able to assist the patients then help organize a clear route to them for the incoming emergency crew.
I'd also suggest maybe having this info if able, it can save time...at the bottom is a form that I developed/not officially AS approved (and carry a few copies to every event I'm at):
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=13418.0
IF you're really interested in the subject let me know and I'll see if I can find the info I've got stored somewhere...~two years old in several shooting mags...that told of a place in the South where there was a weeklong class that trained you to shoot as a 3 man team and treat the injuries you'd probably see....nasal trumpet/pleural decompression/etc.
CSHR
One thing most folks don't consider is that it may be THEM who is the injured party. In the event that it's you, you should have on your person: your insurance card (if you have insurance), the name and phone # of your emergency contact (the person who can make medical decisions for you if you are unconcious), the name and phone # of your primary care Doctor/LPN, a list of all your known drug allergies (esp if you are allergic to any painkillers), a list of drugs you currently take (including OTC stuff) and why, and your blood type (especially important in trauma cases...).