1st off Thank You Chabot gun club for hosting the AS event .
We had a great weekend with 3 persons achieving the Rifleman score. Barry 219 -- John 225 and Dinesh 219 . Congratulations to each of you.
The instructor staff ,all did a fantastic job of instruction . TY Savage shootr -Another Zebra -30cal sleeper and Polygunner .
Each of your contributions made this an event I will long remember with enjoyment.
To each of the attendee's Thank you for your attention and perseverence. We are all looking forward to the next time we meet .
Semper Fidelis
JA
My first Appleseed and not my last. I brought friends to this one... More to the next.
The Instructors were marvelous and ran a very tight range! Keeping 35 people of mixed ability on the shooting line safe, while teaching them all, required a lot of work.
I really wanted to learn 4 position shooting and my offhand score from Saturday morning compared with Sunday afternoon, are worlds apart.
Sunshine, firearms, like minded people, it don't get much better than this!
My thanks to all that instructed and the great bunch that attended, for a wonderful weekend.
Barry
This was my first AppleSeed as an IIT and I couldn't have asked for a better introduction. Johnnyappleseed immediately gave me the opportunity to teach the 4 safety rules (which I was not quite prepared for!) but I took a deep breath and went for it. Ditto for being put on as Line Boss after a couple of turns as RSO. Both Johnnyappleseed and SavageShooter are excellent mentors, and PolyGunner and 30CalSleeper (no sleeper there!) were a pleasure to work with; two very competent riflemen. I got to watch Polygunner model shooting positions and learned a lot. Many of the participants were very experienced and had a great attitude. Two ladies that I worked with, Heidi and Tekla were the epitome of persistence dealing with equipment problems and I'd be proud to share a line with them anytime. My wife, two sons, and good friend Dinesh were participants. Dinesh made rifleman Sunday and Doug (my younger son, almost made it; his second Appleseed). That may be the fastest and most intense weekend that I've ever experienced and I'm looking forward to my next one.
Brian (anotherZebra)
CONGRATULATIONS to all the shooters who came out and shared in their heritage.
Congratulations to Jorge. This is Jorge's third Appleseed, the second one at which he scored Rifleman and he accepted the offer of an orange hat!! We are honored to have you join us. Thanks for stepping up!
Congratulations to Dinesh who managed to persevere even after I robbed him of a RM score by giving him a low score on one of his QDAQTs I think it was around 150. Good thing you shook that off Dinesh.
Congratulations to Barry. Not bad for a Brit. :D
Congratulations to John. It was great watching you with your son Leo. He did well also. O0
Chabot is a great range. Beautiful scenery, nice weather, fabulous people. Thanks for having us.
I enjoyed seeing all the women at this event. What a great group. All so nice, not like those competitive guys. :--- :~ :--- :~ Just kidding they were nice too. These folks watched out for each other. It was like they were all family. Perhaps in one way they are.
Great big THANK YOU to the Brand NEW IITs who worked this event, that you never would have known were brand new IITs if they hadn't told me. Terrific instruction by all three of them. anotherzebra, polygunner and 30 Cal Sleeper, it was a pleasure meeting and working with all of you. I hope we get to do it again some time. Fabulous job, each of you!!!
I also attended with my son Leo. Like Barry, I made rifleman. This was certainly the experience of a lifetime. It's really kind of amazing what skills you learn, and surprising to have real confidence in distance marksmanship. It was also really great to see such a variety of people interested in marksmanship. This Appleseed had many walks (men and women, young and old, etc) that you don't normally see on shooting rifles.
I'd love to come to more Appleseeds. This one sold out; is it unfair to snag the spot of a new shooter given I've already had the chance to attend? If they have one Oct31 I'll be tempted to bring a Garand and dress in WW2 fatigues.
What I did wrong:
We brought nylon sleeping bags as shooting mats, but nylon is smooth and slippery. Not good when trying to get a stable mount.
I did not "know my equipment". I bought a 10/22 for the shoot; unlike my son's 10/22, mags didn't always drop free. I didn't discover this until an AQT so had an unpleasant surprise. I suspect it's because of the receiver paint making the front mag hole a bit tight; a light tap in the towards-me direction causes them to drop. I cleaned out the hole and we'll see how it goes.
I did not use enough good technique. For some shooting, my stance was a little odd and that's fine. For example, I have poor leg flexibility; to sit indian style my abs need to be at maximum tension or I fall over. So for sitting I shot with my legs forward (knees bent) and not crossed. Nevertheless, I don't think I tried hard enough to use proper form in other circumstances. Yes, I made rifleman with a 225, and got as high as 232. But better technique would have taken me to 250. (I'm probably not the first person to claim better technique would improve my shooting score, but there it is.)
Talked politics. To help my son relate I called the redcoats "commies". However, that violates the spirit of Appleseed; we had a revolution to give Americans the freedom to become Communist if they so choose.
Didn't use sunscreen on Sat. Yes, you can burn even when cloudy.
What I did right:
Listened and learned. My AQT score was about 100 points higher between day 1 and day 2.
Avoided buying my way to rifleman. For example, I purchased a Volks hammer for my 10/22. When I installed it, the trigger pull was nice and light...dangerously light. I measured it at 2lb 2oz. I didn't think this was fair, and felt bypassing the issue of trigger control would deny me the learning experience of being a rifleman. So I'm glad I UNinstalled this hammer and stayed with the stock Ruger hammer. I did install a trigger stop to eliminate overtravel but felt it didn't violate the spirit of Appleseed. To each their own I guess; there is nothing wrong with a super-light trigger if you're careful. But it's not a path that felt right for me.
Brought my son. That's kind of the point. Although he didn't make rifleman, his AQT scores rose about 20 points each time he shot, with a high of 169. He also managed to make "effective rifleman at 400yd" on the redcoat target. I've got a ridiculous amount of kids to so you'll see me again.
Took off my sling between courses. Some people left the sling on their arms all day. However, the constant on/off and adjustment really helped me learn what kind of tension I needed. It wasn't until day 2 and ~30 sling-ups before I found my "sweet spot" and the dexterity to make micro-adjustments around it. I would not have found it had I not done the constant on/offs. Not sure this applies to everyone, but it made a big difference to me.
What could have gone better:
At Chabot the instructors really need a megaphone. The non-Appleseed shooting was simply too loud to hear much. I would have liked to hear more of what they had to say.
Big thanks to all who helped out. Wish I could reciprocate in some way.
Johng ,sure was great watching you progress to Rifleman status ;D WELCOME aboard Sir
We encourage folks to repeat AS,of course bringing new persons along is part of the 7th step. Eventually more venues will be added and sold out events have a good effect for creating interest. ;) So YES sign up early :~ :~ :~
I liked your analogy to Leo redcoats=commies :) It is my understanding one is free to be a communist -however they must register as an agent of a foreign govt . I had a peace officer tell me "The 1st amendment was never designed to be a national suicide pact"
OOOPs ---- continued ......
JA
Ian here (the long haired guy with the AR, if that narrows it down enough ;) )...
Had a GREAT time. I've been shooting for quite awhile, but never have actually taken a formal class until now. I mostly know my weaknesses (I'm a Jerking Flincher, or maybe better I'm a Flinching Jerk), so I was mostly interested in leaning the positional shooting, since I shoot from a bench at my range, as well as the use of a sling, which I had never used before the appleseed. I was quite surprised how well I was able to shoot from both the prone and sitting positions (scored Sharpshooter four times, and Marksman once on the 5 AQTs).
On the way home the first day, I was fully intent on bringing my scoped 10/22 back the next day "just so I could score rifleman". But after mulling it over that evening, decided I was just being overly competitive. I need to challenge myself, and the scoped 10/22 is not a challenge. I'm going to get rifleman with my centerfire small bore, and when I do that, I'll prove to myself that my flinch is really gone by passing a second time with a centerfire larger bore (Barry, if you thought you didn't want to sit next to me with the AR-15, you'll *really* not want to sit next to me with the AR-10!).
Great to see the kids out there as well. I've got 4 and 6-year-old girls, and in a few more years, I'll be bringing them out as well.
The instructors were all great and I appreciate all the pointers and advice.
I can't think of much I would change. Yes, a megaphone would have been nice. I would have also liked to have had some optional shoots where I could have tried some of the things I didn't have time to do. There were long pauses where we were already on the line, and it would have been nice instead of waiting around, we could have done an "optional 10-round 2-minute shoot" to try some of the things that we didn't have a chance to try during the "official" shoots (I never had a chance to try open-leg sitting or cross-ankle sitting because all the sitting we did after the first time "counted" in an AQT and I didn't want to take a chance with a new position). So maybe this is something that would be difficult to do for safety reasons, but please consider it, instructors -- if someone on the line has a jam or needs special instruction while the rest of the line is ready to shoot, have everyone have a spare 10-rounder ready to go and just have them do an optional 2-minute, 10 round free-position shoot.
Loved the "Redcoats are coming, get to the line as fast as you can" bit as well as the Revolutionary War history.
Great meeting you all, and I hope to come again in the near future! Thanks a million!
What a great weekend! The shooters posted some impressive groups right off the bat and continued to improve through out the weekend. There was lots of volunteering by students regarding set up and tear down the was greatly appreciated by a very busy instructor corps.
It is a great feeling to help someone along their way to becoming a better shooter, rifleman score or not, when a student makes an improvement in their group size, or they figure out a position, or all of a sudden they attain a riflemans cadence, or the first time they realize that they are in their riflemans bubble. The sense of accomplishment is obvious on their face, and that gives an instructor some very positive feedback that he or she is doing the right things to help that student along on their way to becoming a rifleman.
I'll echo some of the previous sentiments about the noise but, we will persist and overcome.
It was an honor to work with SavageShootr, Johnnyappleseed, anotherZebra, Jorge, and of course, 30 Cal Sleeper. Each and every one is an asset to the Appleseed program and I learned something from each of them. Thank you!
I am always humbled by the caliber of people, students and instructors, I meet at Appleseed events. It seems they all know the ship is sinking. They are bailing but bailing alone is not the same as bailing with a group of people who have a common goal to right the ship and carry on. Appleseed brings people together as a family of balers. Thanks!
pg
PS, Sorry for no pics. I have to add "camera" to my instructor check list.
Thank you to the shooters, Johnnyappleseed, SavageShootr, anotherZebra, Jorge, and Polygunner for a wonderful weekend. My husband Mike (Polygunner) and I weren't quite sure what to expect as this was our first Appleseed as IITs. That being said, if you know Mike, you know that even when he was a "shooter" at an Appleseed (or at the range in general), he always did his best to assist anyone who needed help with their sling, positions, etc. It was fun for me to watch him in his orange hat last weekend.
What did I like best? Well, it was fun to see the looks on faces when the shooters would pull off their newest AQT and realize how much they had improved over the last COF. Shooting those AQTs can be a humbling experience and even frustrating at times. That being said, everyone seemed to be so upbeat and positive with each other. It was also nice to see the looks on their faces when we talked about history. As I told some folks last weekend, I tear up every time the instructors tell the stories of our heritage and it happened again without fail. From the looks on people's faces it wasn't just me who became choked up. I really enjoyed the reading of the cards and hope others enjoyed the readings as well.
Speaking of reading the cards, I am in full agreement with the need of a bullhorn when at Castro Valley. It is rather hard to hear instruction and the history. Polygunner and I will put a camera and a bullhorn in our Appleseed bucket for next time.
Congratulations to Barry, John, and Dinesh! Nicely done!
Congrats to Jorge on the orange hat (and THANK YOU!!!). Thank you also to those who came early and stayed late to help with set up and clean up. Oh, and for reminding me to drink water and for giving me that Gatorade!!! Appleseeds help to remind me there are some wonderful people left in this world!
Thank you to all who made last weekend such a great experience.
I was kinda hoping CA would not be able to get instructors for this event. Selfish of me I know, but how else can a guy from Wis get to wonderful California for an event?
Sounds like a really great Appleseed and congratulations on getting more and more people to get off the couch and do something.
Any chance that someone had a camera? Most of the country would like to see what it looked like.
Super job JA and SS
So Barry called me out on my post for stating that the scoped 10/22 was not a challenge (thanks, Barry... really). I apologize for the wording, I meant to say that it was not a challenge for me. We all shoot at different levels, and at one point, just like everyone else, I didn't know which end of a 10/22 went bang. And even though I'm a reasonably good shot today, I know I still have a lot to learn.
What I was trying to say was just that even though I went home thinking "heck, I can go back tomorrow with my .22 and achieve rifleman", I chose not to. It would have lessened the whole ideal of Appleseed as well as reduced my personal learning experience to use a tool that was not a challenge to me -- and to do it specifically just to obtain that rifleman patch. I think I made the right decision. I just failed to state it well, and for that I apologize. I meant in no way that a .22 was not a challenge to anyone else.
So back to the discussion about how great the Appleseed was, and that hopefully I'll see you all soon, maybe in my home town of Sacramento next time! :)
You know, Wood Dragon, since Rifleman is so easy with a 22, there is always the perfect score. 250. O0 yea, thats what you and me and everyone else should strive for. BTW Rifleman is not easy with a 22 LR. Lots of issues with the round, lots of issues. Score it first and then talk about how easy. OK, OK, I know it took me 3 Appleseeds to do it, and I have been shooting rifle since 8. Slow learner, that me ++)
I took a couple pictures. They're not of action (since I was shooting), but you can see the line and some of the scenery. http://www.ianmcafee.com/pics Sorry I don't have more.
Shoot, Colycat, I'm not near good enough to get a perfect score with any rifle including my favorite .22, and I know that. Step 1, though, will be to get rifleman with a small-bore centerfire and I'll work my way up from there. Hey Rajun Asian, you ready to time me next time we hit Richmond Rod & Gun?
Aww Coly -- We would have loved you at Chabot. ;D If ever there was a an omen for you to be somewhere , Chabot was it .
On sat in honor of wisconsin, the temp at Castro Valley was 56 with a cold wind :o If any AS ers have a chance to travel , midwest events are as good as it gets O0
JA
Ian, nice to see you on the forum.
IMHO use of a scope does not make AQT any easier. Some ranges have better conditions which help scores go up. Chabot had great conditions ,light was good , no blowing dirt or sand . Rain cold or excessive heat all add to the challenge. Even the AQTs vary as to quality.
You did what every rifleman must do , you showed persaverance! O0 . A rifleman never quits O0
John the older fellow was having his groups get worse -- I shot his 22 with 9X scope w/o sling and achieved a miserable 10 minute group >:(
I then turned down the power to 3X and groups shrunk to a bit under 4 minutes O0
So next time ,bring whatever you like and no one will think the less of your score .
TY for attending and I look forward to seeing you again.
JA
Wood Dragon --appears you chose an appropriate forum name >:D
Seriously --thanx for the pics O0
JA
WoodDragon
Thanks for posting the link to the pictures! O0
SS
WoW!!! Thats California? Doesn't look like snake and lizard country at all ^-^
Johnnyappleseed: I'm in an awkward position defending commies, but...
There are many examples of communism around here (e.g. a Kibbutz, a hippie commune in VT, and so on). Critically, they are optional.
The Red Menace wasn't just about communism in the abstract; it was about the Soviets forcing communism on the rest of the world, analogous to taxation without representation et al. Calling the redcoat targets "Red Menace" or "Soviets" would have been in the spirit of Appleseed.
Perhaps it's a subtle distinction.
johng well said O0and well articulated O0
JA
Quote from: colycat on June 23, 2010, 10:43:09 AM
WoW!!! Thats California? Doesn't look like snake and lizard country at all ^-^
Right Coly I was as surprised as you were :o
JA
Quote from: colycat on June 23, 2010, 10:43:09 AM
WoW!!! Thats California? Doesn't look like snake and lizard country at all ^-^
Castro Valley is pretty far from Sacramento, the state capitol. Hence the lack of...
Congratulations to the newest Riflemen, and all those who participated and started the road to learning. It is heartening to see all the people there enjoying themselves.
The range at Lake Chabot, part of the East Bay Regional Parks system, is in a somewhat isolated, wooded area of this park. There is also a water storage lake there, dug and dammed in the 1880's by Chinese labor. The park is in a hilly, steep watershed. Hikers, campers, runners, mtn bikers also use the park. There is an old Nike installation there too. A gem of a park. Oh yeah, for what it's worth, there is, or was, a very dedicated group of 'old guy shooters' who regularly use this range and feel it is 'theirs'. In the 7 years I shot there I was rarely acknowledged or spoken to by them.
It's northern end connects with Redwood Regional, even steeper, lots of amazing Coastal Redwoods, and the site of the 'discovery/namingj' of the Rainbow Trout. This park is in the hills above Oakland, bordering the SF Bay, thus the summer influx of fog.
Given the amount of people who actually live within easy driving distance....very few know that there is a range there...and we have fought many a battle to keep it from being closed for all the normal fear mongering reasons.
CSHR
Hey Ian, I'm ready to go! Thinking of investing in some AQT targets to use at the 50/100 yard range. We're not leaving the next Appleseed w/out that patch! :---
Rajin asian --If possibile I would suggest you shoot the AQTS at 25 yards.
Were you shooting a center fire with a forward type grip? also did you use a GI sling?
My feeble mind is failing !@#)
If you need targets ,they can be ordered from the AS store -- in the future -- let us know --we hate dragging this stuff 100s of miles and would gladly have left you some ;D
JA
CSHR tY Marine for the info. O0 It sure is beautiful country up there .
SS got us another date for AS Oct30/31/10 8)
JA
johng -what a great job of self diagnosis O0
Your sling use is what worked for me as well.
I will copy and post your comments on sling use and encourage other shooters to try it your way O0'
Took off my sling between courses. Some people left the sling on their arms all day. However, the constant on/off and adjustment really helped me learn what kind of tension I needed. It wasn't until day 2 and ~30 sling-ups before I found my "sweet spot" and the dexterity to make micro-adjustments around it. I would not have found it had I not done the constant on/offs. Not sure this applies to everyone, but it made a big difference to me.
JA
That looks like a good idea.... Sending people home with a couple AQT's a piece after attending a shoot, might be good advertising.
I purchased 50 along with my slings and my friends are eyeing them and itching to give them a go.
All the best
Barry