I never got my hands on one of these, but was always fascinated by what I read about them; quality and accuracy in particular. The obscure ammo (7.5 x 55) was a primary reason I never considered buying one.
I just recently saw a post by a competition shooter that the Swiss government is releasing 1 BILLION rounds of surplus ammo for sale. This guy also states he's consistently shooting 1MOA groups (w/sling from prone), with one of these that he purchased for $200.
With the availability of that much ammo, I'm seriously considering purchasing one for my wife. Anyone have experience with this particular rifle that they can share?
I own one. I feed it surplus GP11. I love this rifle! I struggle to think of a con; really. It is as accurate rifle as I could ask for and the ammunition is consistant. Parts and stripper clips are easily had.
I've only taken mine out a to a couple hundred yards but I'm limited by my own vision...If the guy says he's shooting 1 moa at known distance I don't doubt it. These things were designed to hit targets out beyond 600 yards.
Look, I'm seeing them sell in the $300 range. Just buy one. The straight pull is cool, the rifle is pretty, GP11 is easily had, and Partizan is making some 7.5 x 55 as well. With a scope I'd put mine up against a model 70 any day.
That PPU 7.5 he's referring to is brass/boxer. I don't know about the 7.5 but I've got some PPU .303 going into it's 5th loading cycle (neck sized only) and still in nice shape. most of my Remmington brass wont hold a primer past 4 cycles.
A
I love mine.
I put Mojo Sights on it, and that was all it needed.
http://www.mojosights.com/
There are also many good no-gunsmith scope mounts, good drill and tap scope bases, and really nice diopter rear sights. http://swissproductsllc.com/
The trigger on mine is good enough, not quite as nice as my stock CMP Garand but decent.
Huber Concepts make a very fine replacement if yours is not good enough.
Mine didn't need one but I have used them on other mil-surp rifles, and they are very nice indeed.
http://www.huberconcepts.com/K31SchmidtRuben.htm
It runs as slick as can be with G-11 surplus ammo and the Swiss chargers.
They were once sold for 79 dollars, and now they look like 300-400 for decent condition rifles. These rifles are JEWELS, and I think they are still bargains at today's prices.
According to my reading the Swedish Mauser and the Swiss K-31 were the usual winners of European Military rifle competitions.
There are some downsides;
The ammo needs to be small base resized if you reload.
Due to this, the cases don't last nearly as long as if you were loading for a turn bolt.
Also, while the straight pull action is slick, it doesn't have the Mauser's camming power for forcing an out of spec round into the chamber or for extraction of a sticky case.
For this reason, I don't think they would be my first choice in a SHTF type situation.
They have never been proven in the crucible of combat.
All that said they are great rifles as is. Surplus ammo is available and works great at a reasonable cost. Also they can be converted to .308 ( or others) if/when you shoot your barrel out.
http://www.lprgunsmith.com/K31_rifles.htm
I love mine and recommend them to everyone.
Thanks guys...my wife will probably be getting one soon. ;)
QuoteThey have never been proven in the crucible of combat.
I read somewhere that one of the reasons Hitler didn't want to invade Switzerland, was due to these rifles, and the operators behind them.
Quote from: The Machine on October 03, 2009, 04:11:13 AM
Thanks guys...my wife will probably be getting one soon. ;)
QuoteThey have never been proven in the crucible of combat.
I read somewhere that one of the reasons Hitler didn't want to invade Switzerland, was due to these rifles, and the operators behind them.
The nuts behind the butt plates were great.
The Swiss rifleman was and is an inspiration.
But, straight pull bolts rifles have a much checkered combat history.
The Canadian Ross rifle was a great arm for targets and hunting, in combat it got men killed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_rifle
http://www.histori.ca/prodev/lp.do;jsessionid=3F0B3707A2FBA890B329DBFFDB37BC29.tomcat1?id=19229
The M95 STYER has a better reputation, but many troops of the Austro-Hungarian Empire were known to have picked up and used the enemies Mausers when they could.
This was despite the Styer's superior rate of fire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr-Mannlicher_M1895
"....requires decent care and maintenance with an extractor that is notoriously prone to breakage." ~Wikipedia
Now if I had more shekels I would love to have a Ross and an M-1895, straight pulls are cool.
But I suspect that their functioning in harsh combat conditions is always going to be problematic.
The Swiss stood nose to nose with Hitler and Adolf blinked.
The K-31, for better or worse, remains unproven on the field of honor.
I have one as well and it can attest to it's accuracy. Mine shoots the Prvi Partisan 174grn soft point ammo accurately as well and it's nice to have a hunting load that you can buy off the shelf (well, online off the shelf) too. I'm still working on a reload that can match it, but haven't found the magic combination yet.
The same things drew me to this rifle that you're speaking of. The straight pull bolt is just plain cool, but as others have mentioned, I don't know how well it would function if it was full of dirt.
Here's a video that's pretty interesting. Off the bench, but still: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ-Lcvyrifw
Quote from: spitstickler on October 03, 2009, 01:27:57 PM
I'm still working on a reload that can match it, but haven't found the magic combination yet....
If you work up a good load for your K31 please post it.
Quote from: spitstickler on October 03, 2009, 01:27:57 PM
Here's a video that's pretty interesting. Off the bench, but still: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ-Lcvyrifw
Pretty neat but I can't help thinking that if he followed Step 6 his hit ratio would be better ;)
Quote from: The Machine on October 03, 2009, 12:44:09 AM
... The obscure ammo (7.5 x 55) was a primary reason I never considered buying one.
I just recently saw a post by a competition shooter that the Swiss government is releasing 1 BILLION rounds of surplus ammo for sale. This guy also states he's consistently shooting 1MOA groups (w/sling from prone), with one of these that he purchased for $200.
...
The GP11 ammo is moderately expensive, but of first rate quality and is a very good long range round due to the 175 grain bullet, muzzle velocity spec is 2560fps.
Notch sights can be challenging for some shooters.
Good reloading news is that .308 inch projectiles are suitable for a K31.
Paper chargers are very robust and should provide years of service.
anyone try to make 7.5X55 brass out of .308 brass? Or .243/7mm08?
they're pretty darn close. Might take a "fire forming" step as many custom calibers do. I've never tried this, just curious if anyone else had. If it is possible it would give a reloader a source for boxer primed brass. Just not sure if the extractor would fit the rim right and extract the empty reliably. These drawings are from Wikipedia for what that is worth.
Quote from: spitstickler on October 03, 2009, 01:27:57 PMI'm still working on a reload that can match it, but haven't found the magic combination yet.
Someone was selling his K31 on GunBroker.com and used this recipe FWIW:
39gr. IMR 4064, CCI BR2 primer, 168gr. PRVI match bullet, OAL. 3.025.
Results: 4 shots 1 1/8" group, 2 shots 1/4" apart 2 shots 3/8" apart. 100 yards/benchrest
Quote from: Francis Marion on October 03, 2009, 08:18:50 PM
Paper chargers are very robust and should provide years of service.
I bought a pile of them and shellaced them. It is supposed to improve the chargers durablity even more.
"Many reloader who have a hard time finding brass cases resize .284 Winchester brass and use one of the many .308 diameter bullets available."
http://members.cox.net/swissshooter/chargers.html
K-31 parts-
http://www.tngunparts.com/k312.htm
The Swiss Shooters home page for lots of info on your rifle-
http://members.cox.net/swissshooter/index.html
Quote from: jj-22 on October 03, 2009, 06:37:39 PM
Quote from: spitstickler on October 03, 2009, 01:27:57 PM
Here's a video that's pretty interesting. Off the bench, but still: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ-Lcvyrifw
Pretty neat but I can't help thinking that if he followed Step 6 his hit ratio would be better ;)
LOL.. yeah, I have already invited him to an Appleseed :D
Quote from: Brother Mark on October 03, 2009, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: spitstickler on October 03, 2009, 01:27:57 PM
I'm still working on a reload that can match it, but haven't found the magic combination yet....
If you work up a good load for your K31 please post it.
Honestly, I've only tried one powder (IMR 4350) with one bullet type (Hornady 150 gr SP) for this caliber and haven't dabbled with this one a while. 49.5grn was the best of the bunch was .85", but it was pretty wide on the under (2.3") and over (1.75") loads on my .5 grn buildup. I'll try a different powder or different bullet next time. I don't like to see that much variance on either side of my optimum charge.
Here's a link with some good ideas of where to start reloading this cartridge: http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/pierre/data.html
...lots of other good K31 info on there as well!
I thought of something else...a right-handed shooter could use one of these as is, but what about a lefty like me? I was trying to figure out if the bolt was made ambidextrous, where the handle could be moved to the other side. I'm buying the rifle primarily for my wife (she's right-handed), but I'd like to have some fun with it too.
I can't see myself working the bolt like this guy, trying to reach across with my left hand :-[ : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wykg_ij9egM&feature=player_embedded
I've got no thoughts on what to do for a lefty, sorry.
The video was great, thanks.
Did you notice how much take-up he had on his trigger?
Mine is just the same, a long take up with a fair break.
Quote from: The Machine on October 05, 2009, 01:02:42 AM
.. I was trying to figure out if the bolt was made ambidextrous, where the handle could be moved to the other side...
Unfortunately, no. That bolt is riding in a slot. I can think of no way to turn it over. I don't know if they make left handed versions. I've never looked for one.
Quote from: socalserf on October 05, 2009, 08:31:53 PM
I've got no thoughts on what to do for a lefty, sorry.
The video was great, thanks.
Did you notice how much take-up he had on his trigger?
Mine is just the same, a long take up with a fair break.
I noticed that, and I also noticed him holding the trigger back on "follow through" was very brief. I would've liked to see what the holes were looking like on the other end too. Overall, he looked like a pretty smooth operator with that bolt-gun.
Yeah, I think you guys are right...I'm probably out of luck on the bolt. I've looked around at some online resources and didn't see anything that referenced a left-hand assembly. Sometimes it's hard being a lefty in a right-handed world. :)
Quote from: The Machine on October 05, 2009, 09:24:57 PM
Yeah, I think you guys are right...I'm probably out of luck on the bolt. I've looked around at some online resources and didn't see anything that referenced a left-hand assembly. Sometimes it's hard being a lefty in a right-handed world. :)
But wait! [ a cavalry trumpet is heard blowing in the distance] I found something!
Go here....
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?p=1021691
...then pan down to reply no. 6.
It makes reference to, and has pictures of, a thing called a "Burgin" device. This device appears to works as a handle on the opposite side of the bolt without actually turing the bolt over. Find the device Mr. Machine, and you can shoot your rifle without having to reach across.
Quote from: Brother Mark on October 05, 2009, 09:36:17 PM
Quote from: The Machine on October 05, 2009, 09:24:57 PM
Yeah, I think you guys are right...I'm probably out of luck on the bolt. I've looked around at some online resources and didn't see anything that referenced a left-hand assembly. Sometimes it's hard being a lefty in a right-handed world. :)
But wait! [ a cavalry trumpet is heard blowing in the distance] I found something!
Go here....
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?p=1021691
...then pan down to reply no. 6.
It makes reference to, and has pictures of, a thing called a "Burgin" device. This device appears to works as a handle on the opposite side of the bolt without actually turing the bolt over. Find the device Mr. Machine, and you can shoot your rifle without having to reach across.
See, this is exactly what I love about my fellow Appleseeders...someone always answers the call...complete with sound effects! @@) Thanks, Bro Mark! O0
I did a little further investigation and also found this device (bottom of page): http://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/topic/1201/t/
Rudimentary, but close enough for Mr. Machine. :~
For chargers I recommend using Mosin Nagant stripper clips. These work fine for me both with GP11 and handloads. They seat in the slot on the reciever and load easier than on the MN.
Note: a few brass MN strippers I got on ebay needed some slight bending, but they still work with the x54R as well. Most of the strippers I have work fine.
The biggest challenge with handloads is bullet seating. The GP11 projectile tapers quite rapidly, and the K31 has almost no throat to accomodate this. Hence, many .308 projectiles must be seated quite deep, or they run against the (deep) rifling. Stuff I can chamber and fire in my K11 simply will not fire in my K31 - the bolt simply won't completely lock (you will notice this - the SN on the bolt isn't fully vertical, and although the trigger goes click, there isn't even a primer indent.)
Excellent rifles though. It's built like a Swiss Watch (which may date me a bit I guess.)
I've never found one with a cruby bore; The Swiss went non-corrosive in 1911, when GP11 was introduced, and the Swiss soliders (all males in their 20's are reserves) took these weapons home with them.
Not enough can be said about the combination of GP11 and the K31. Simply accurate.
Quote from: The Machine on October 05, 2009, 01:02:42 AM
I thought of something else...a right-handed shooter could use one of these as is, but what about a lefty like me? I was trying to figure out if the bolt was made ambidextrous, where the handle could be moved to the other side. I'm buying the rifle primarily for my wife (she's right-handed), but I'd like to have some fun with it too.
I can't see myself working the bolt like this guy, trying to reach across with my left hand :-[ : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wykg_ij9egM&feature=player_embedded
Get a K31 and don't look back. They're just fine for lefties...shooting them right or left handed requires that you break cheekweld in my experience. Plus it's quicker to operate a bolt gun or straight pull with your support hand anyway....my lefty son can work a bolt quicker can than I can as a righty.
I've got 3 K31s...two with Irons and one with a St. Marie mount and Leupy VX-II 3-9. I've shot 0.75 MOA 5-shot groups at 200 yards with the GP11. It's REALLY accurate. I've yet to beat 1 MOA accuracy with my handloads using 165 gr Hornady SSTs, although the 165 SST did a great job on killing a deer last year at about 150 yards...big exit wound. I suggest that you use VLD bullets, much like the GP11 if you want good accuracy with a K31...stuff like Sierra 175 matchkings and Berger 175 VLDs.
If a bunch of this ammo comes into the US cheap, i'll buy another case or two. I'm sitting on two cases (480 rnds/case) now and that's not enough. Privi Partizan and Norma both make brass for 7.5 Swiss. Either is much better than forming brass out of 284 Winchester brass, which has a slightly different casehead dimension.
In short, buy a K31, buy a BUNCH of GP11 and shoot accurately without the hassle of handloading.
-David
Edgewood, NM
Quote from: The Machine on October 03, 2009, 12:44:09 AM
I just recently saw a post by a competition shooter that the Swiss government is releasing 1 BILLION rounds of surplus ammo for sale.
Need more info on THIS! I'm down to 50 rds. :(
This is what that fella said about the surplus GP11...
Quote...both Grafs (www.grafs.com) and Saamco have it right now. However, Saamco's price is much better. $234.72 for a 480 rd case. When I last ordered from them, it took them about three weeks to fill the order but they didn't bill me until they shipped it.
Thanks!